IP/patent bar question Forum

[Michigan1442]

Hey guys, here's my situation: I have a non-science bachelors degree, but was pre-med in college, and I have figured out that I would only need 10 more science credits in order to qualify to take the patent bar. I'm trying to decide if it would be worth it to take those science classes this summer (I'm entering law school in the fall), so that I would be able to pursue the IP path in law school. What I'm wondering is:

1) Do employers typically care whether you qualify for the patent bar with option A (science/technical degree) vs. option B (science courses)? I would be interested in working for a big law firm.

2) Do you take the patent bar during or after law school? I'm 99% sure that my classes would qualify, but how do I convince employers during OCI that I'm eligible for the patent bar without having the science degree on my resume?

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

[mx23250]

Hey guys, here's my situation: I have a non-science bachelors degree, but was pre-med in college, and I have figured out that I would only need 10 more science credits in order to qualify to take the patent bar. I'm trying to decide if it would be worth it to take those science classes this summer (I'm entering law school in the fall), so that I would be able to pursue the IP path in law school. What I'm wondering is:

1) Do employers typically care whether you qualify for the patent bar with option A (science/technical degree) vs. option B (science courses)? I would be interested in working for a big law firm.

2) Do you take the patent bar during or after law school? I'm 99% sure that my classes would qualify, but how do I convince employers during OCI that I'm eligible for the patent bar without having the science degree on my resume?

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

I just took the patent bar exam last week and passed. I'm starting law school this fall as well. If you decide to take it at some point I'd be happy to provide some tips on how to study for it.

Regarding #1, I'm guessing employers would generally prefer an applicant who has a science undergrad degree to an applicant without a science undergrad degree, but is otherwise patent bar eligible. However, whatever preference that might be could be far outweighed by an applicant who has passed the bar and has top grades in law school. You might be at a disadvantage, though, when recruiters/hiring managers scan resumes for undergrad degrees and don't see a science degree, so you might have to figure out a way of indicating on your resume the # of science credits you've taken. It would also greatly help if you had work experience in science, especially for going into IP. Check to see if your university has a technology transfer office and see if you can intern there to get experience.

Regarding #2, it seems most people take it after law school since law firms will pay for you to take a patent bar prep course. A lot of law students will try taking it during school though, but it can get very tough to find the time to put into studying. I spent 4 months studying 20+ hours per week. As for indicating at OCI that you're patent bar eligible, you can specifically mention that on your resume. Since you'll be at a disadvantage without a bachelors degree in the sciences, I'd try to take the patent bar as early as possible to increase the odds of getting a SA job in IP and a job thereafter. IP is a growing field, but it's still competitive, even with decent grades. For the bio field, a lot of firms prefer a PhD, so even a bachelors in biology/chemistry often won't cut it.

[lhanvt13]

Hey guys, here's my situation: I have a non-science bachelors degree, but was pre-med in college, and I have figured out that I would only need 10 more science credits in order to qualify to take the patent bar. I'm trying to decide if it would be worth it to take those science classes this summer (I'm entering law school in the fall), so that I would be able to pursue the IP path in law school. What I'm wondering is:

1) Do employers typically care whether you qualify for the patent bar with option A (science/technical degree) vs. option B (science courses)? I would be interested in working for a big law firm.

2) Do you take the patent bar during or after law school? I'm 99% sure that my classes would qualify, but how do I convince employers during OCI that I'm eligible for the patent bar without having the science degree on my resume?

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

I just took the patent bar exam last week and passed. I'm starting law school this fall as well. If you decide to take it at some point I'd be happy to provide some tips on how to study for it.

Regarding #1, I'm guessing employers would generally prefer an applicant who has a science undergrad degree to an applicant without a science undergrad degree, but is otherwise patent bar eligible. However, whatever preference that might be could be far outweighed by an applicant who has passed the bar and has top grades in law school. You might be at a disadvantage, though, when recruiters/hiring managers scan resumes for undergrad degrees and don't see a science degree, so you might have to figure out a way of indicating on your resume the # of science credits you've taken. It would also greatly help if you had work experience in science, especially for going into IP. Check to see if your university has a technology transfer office and see if you can intern there to get experience.

Regarding #2, it seems most people take it after law school since law firms will pay for you to take a patent bar prep course. A lot of law students will try taking it during school though, but it can get very tough to find the time to put into studying. I spent 4 months studying 20+ hours per week. As for indicating at OCI that you're patent bar eligible, you can specifically mention that on your resume. Since you'll be at a disadvantage without a bachelors degree in the sciences, I'd try to take the patent bar as early as possible to increase the odds of getting a SA job in IP and a job thereafter. IP is a growing field, but it's still competitive, even with decent grades. For the bio field, a lot of firms prefer a PhD, so even a bachelors in biology/chemistry often won't cut it.

extremely interested in your advice as well. Any general things?

[mx23250]

Here are some general tips:

1) Study practice problems. The USPTO has released some old exams and it's on their website along with answers. Many of these questions are reused on today's exam. I got a book of practice problems from a friend, but I think you can find some on Amazon.

2) Get a recent summary of the MPEP. I bought an electronic version off Amazon (I think it was like $30 and ~250 pages) and read it several times. This helped me memorize and learn all the key parts of the MPEP that will be tested on.

3) When studying old/new practice problems you encounter, look up the relevant section in the MPEP. Often times the answer will specifically mention the section of the MPEP the answer is from. This helps you to practice searching the MPEP like you will on exam day along with learning the MPEP.

4) BE SURE TO STUDY THE NEW AMERICA INVENTS ACT MATERIAL!!!!! There are lots of new rules you will be tested on that won't be found in study material more than a couple years old. The USPTO website provides some nice free summaries of it and so do various materials found free on the web.

5) There are many online courses available, but they can be quite spendy. If you're on a tight schedule, this might help a lot. If you have a few months to study, I think you can do it more cheaply by buying a summary (like the $30 on Amazon) along with locating lots of actual practice problems.

[lhanvt13]

Here are some general tips:

1) Study practice problems. The USPTO has released some old exams and it's on their website along with answers. Many of these questions are reused on today's exam. I got a book of practice problems from a friend, but I think you can find some on Amazon.

2) Get a recent summary of the MPEP. I bought an electronic version off Amazon (I think it was like $30 and ~250 pages) and read it several times. This helped me memorize and learn all the key parts of the MPEP that will be tested on.

3) When studying old/new practice problems you encounter, look up the relevant section in the MPEP. Often times the answer will specifically mention the section of the MPEP the answer is from. This helps you to practice searching the MPEP like you will on exam day along with learning the MPEP.

4) BE SURE TO STUDY THE NEW AMERICA INVENTS ACT MATERIAL!!!!! There are lots of new rules you will be tested on that won't be found in study material more than a couple years old. The USPTO website provides some nice free summaries of it and so do various materials found free on the web.

5) There are many online courses available, but they can be quite spendy. If you're on a tight schedule, this might help a lot. If you have a few months to study, I think you can do it more cheaply by buying a summary (like the $30 on Amazon) along with locating lots of actual practice problems.

Thanks a ton!

[Dr. Mantis Toboggan]

Hey guys, here's my situation: I have a non-science bachelors degree, but was pre-med in college, and I have figured out that I would only need 10 more science credits in order to qualify to take the patent bar. I'm trying to decide if it would be worth it to take those science classes this summer (I'm entering law school in the fall), so that I would be able to pursue the IP path in law school. What I'm wondering is:

1) Do employers typically care whether you qualify for the patent bar with option A (science/technical degree) vs. option B (science courses)? I would be interested in working for a big law firm.

2) Do you take the patent bar during or after law school? I'm 99% sure that my classes would qualify, but how do I convince employers during OCI that I'm eligible for the patent bar without having the science degree on my resume?

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

First off, it really depends on what type of IP/patent work you want to do. Are you thinking prosecution (writing patent applications, responding to office actions, etc.), litigation, soft IP (lol)?

If you want to do prosecution , then Employers will care most about your undergrad degree. Specifically, if they have a lot of electrical work, then they will require an EE/CS degree. If they have a lot of pharma/chemical work, then PhD in whatever will be required. So if you don't have the right degree for the job, you can be almost foreclosed from getting in the prosecution door even if you have a reg number (though some people manage to make it in via non-traditional degrees). You will actually see this in job postings and OCI bid lists. Will say something like "BS EE required" or "candidates must have a PhD in physics in order to be eligible".

If you want to do litigation, then you don't really need the patent bar, so how you qualify to sit for the exam is irrelevant. What will matter most is where you went to law school and your law school grades. PatBar may be a requirement in some boutiques and IP firms, but for the most part firms won't care for patent lit.

[NYC-WVU]

Hey guys, here's my situation: I have a non-science bachelors degree, but was pre-med in college, and I have figured out that I would only need 10 more science credits in order to qualify to take the patent bar. I'm trying to decide if it would be worth it to take those science classes this summer (I'm entering law school in the fall), so that I would be able to pursue the IP path in law school. What I'm wondering is:

1) Do employers typically care whether you qualify for the patent bar with option A (science/technical degree) vs. option B (science courses)? I would be interested in working for a big law firm.

2) Do you take the patent bar during or after law school? I'm 99% sure that my classes would qualify, but how do I convince employers during OCI that I'm eligible for the patent bar without having the science degree on my resume?

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

First off, it really depends on what type of IP/patent work you want to do. Are you thinking prosecution (writing patent applications, responding to office actions, etc.), litigation, soft IP (lol)?

If you want to do prosecution , then Employers will care most about your undergrad degree. Specifically, if they have a lot of electrical work, then they will require an EE/CS degree. If they have a lot of pharma/chemical work, then PhD in whatever will be required. So if you don't have the right degree for the job, you can be almost foreclosed from getting in the prosecution door even if you have a reg number (though some people manage to make it in via non-traditional degrees). You will actually see this in job postings and OCI bid lists. Will say something like "BS EE required" or "candidates must have a PhD in physics in order to be eligible".

If you want to do litigation, then you don't really need the patent bar, so how you qualify to sit for the exam is irrelevant. What will matter most is where you went to law school and your law school grades. PatBar may be a requirement in some boutiques and IP firms, but for the most part firms won't care for patent lit.

+1
The patent bar is only relevant to representing inventors/applicants at the USPTO. For almost all of this type of work, a graduate degree is required (by the employer) when the work is related to a hard science.
In other words, you're not going to get hired as a patent practitioner (i.e., prosecutor) just because you passed the patent bar. Of course, you could end up being a patent litigator, which is typically more lucrative and more prestigious, but the patent bar won't really be relevant to that work. On the other hand, firms probably appreciate the ability to list their "Patent" people as being registered to practice at the PTO, but it's not necessary.
I wouldn't go out of your way to be able to sit for the patent bar if you're not going to get a relevant degree.