JD vs. MBA or both

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a-quad
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JD vs. MBA or both

Postby a-quad » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:14 pm

So I was accepted with a full ride to Cardozo (no GPA req's to keep the scholarship) and deferred it for a year, as I wasn't certain if I wanted to be a lawyer. I've been working for a while in logistics, and I really enjoy it, and I think this is what I want to do professionally. As it happens, Rutger's has a great MBA with a concentration in logistics/supply chain management, and people in the field who I've talked to highly recommend Rutgers over more prestigious MBA programs.

My GRE scores and GPA are far above median for Rutgers, so with good LOR's (not too worried about that) I shouldn't have trouble getting in.

Multiple people in the logistics industry have also told me that a legal background+MBA would be a killer combination (which makes sense to me- lots of legal troubles pop up in this field). As it happens, Rutgers does offer a JD-MBA program. I have a 169/3.87, so I'd def get into Rutgers-Newark, but I hear they don't really give merit-based scholarships, and my odds of a financial based scholarship aren't too good. My deferment at Cardozo requires that I do not apply to other JD programs while I am deferred. I'd hate to give up the full ride at Cardozo for a more expensive and less prestigious degree at Rutgers, when the degree is really just the icing on the cake. I possibly will be able to qualify for in-state tuition at Rutgers, but the Rutgers JD will probably still be more expensive than free.

So two questions: 1) assuming I can figure out a way to let Cardozo and Rutgers allow me to do a dual degree (1 year at Cardozo, 1 year at Rutgers, and then the final 2 years are a blend), is it really crazy? I know people have done a dual degree at Harvard Business+Yale law, but I also assume that those people are far smarter than I am. 2) Any advice as to how I go about asking school administrators about the possibility of a JD-MBA joint degree?

jttoplawschools93
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby jttoplawschools93 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:30 pm

169 3.87, your basically a lock at one or more 7-14, can't speak to the mba/law school thing, but if your going to law school cardozo doesnt make sense.
if its about the full ride, im sure youd get pretty close at wustl/usc/minn

idk how deferral works so maybe withdraw sit out a year then apply, depending on what you signed if you choose law

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twenty
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby twenty » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:08 am

Yeah, definitely don't go to Cardozo with those numbers. Cornell should be offering you money.

Also, definitely do not do both a JD and an MBA unless you have a really good reason for doing so. Not having any better options does not count as a good reason.

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Redamon1
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby Redamon1 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:28 am

Your professional interests will most likely shift while you are in law school and/or in business school, as well as throughout your professional career.

In sum, go to the best law school or business school you can in order to have the widest range of professional options. A full-ride isn't worth as much if the degree doesn't get you a job (or the job you want). It seems with your numbers that you can do better than Cardozo. How widely did you apply when you applied to Cardozo? I imagine that you can tailor your training to your field of interest at most top schools. Supply chain management is a pretty important and common topic I think.

BigZuck
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby BigZuck » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:49 am

Don't waste good numbers on those TTTs.

Also, retake

Ti Malice
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:10 am

Mother of God, do not go to Cardozo with those numbers. Your cost-benefit analysis is way off if you think a full ride there would be better than a number of other options you could have. Cardozo has terrible employment numbers. A free pile of horse dung is still just horse dung.

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Balthy
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby Balthy » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:38 am

a-quad wrote:So I was accepted with a full ride to Cardozo (no GPA req's to keep the scholarship) and deferred it for a year, as I wasn't certain if I wanted to be a lawyer. I've been working for a while in logistics, and I really enjoy it, and I think this is what I want to do professionally. As it happens, Rutger's has a great MBA with a concentration in logistics/supply chain management, and people in the field who I've talked to highly recommend Rutgers over more prestigious MBA programs.

My GRE scores and GPA are far above median for Rutgers, so with good LOR's (not too worried about that) I shouldn't have trouble getting in.

Multiple people in the logistics industry have also told me that a legal background+MBA would be a killer combination (which makes sense to me- lots of legal troubles pop up in this field). As it happens, Rutgers does offer a JD-MBA program. I have a 169/3.87, so I'd def get into Rutgers-Newark, but I hear they don't really give merit-based scholarships, and my odds of a financial based scholarship aren't too good. My deferment at Cardozo requires that I do not apply to other JD programs while I am deferred. I'd hate to give up the full ride at Cardozo for a more expensive and less prestigious degree at Rutgers, when the degree is really just the icing on the cake. I possibly will be able to qualify for in-state tuition at Rutgers, but the Rutgers JD will probably still be more expensive than free.



From my exp, you should really do a bunch of your own research before trusting anyone with "insight" like this. Even people in the relevant industries are completely wrong quite often.

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jbagelboy
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:54 pm

How legit is your WE? If its F500 or V50 consulting/banking, then a solid MBA program alone (such as Wharton or Kellogg) would serve your long term employment goals. You don't really need a JD to have some legal knowledge and work in industry. If your experience is very light and you couldnt get re-offered, or lateral into comparable positions post-mba, AND you actually want to work as an attorney, then the JD makes sense. Id still look at Northwestern, Penn, Duke, ect., schools with good dual degree options - whether the mba is necessary is questionable at all though.

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jingosaur
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby jingosaur » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:47 am

1. For the love of god, do not go to Cordozo with those numbers. If you need to withdraw from Cordozo and reapply next year, do so.
2. An MBA only works with a JD if it's a really prestigious MBA. A JD is supposed to be a means to gainful employment in a specific profession and an MBA is supposed to be a means to gainful employment through becomming a part of a network. It gets redundant. If you're certain you want to do logistics, just do the MBA. People in general know very little about the merits of a law degree.
3. If you're getting an MBA, you might want to aim higher than Rutgers if you have the numbers and work experience. Plenty of strong MBA programs have much better logistics programs.

a-quad
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby a-quad » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:36 pm

Sorry, it's been a busy week.
1. I actually got into NYU and other T-14s, with some money, and turned it down (yes, I know, goes against classic TLS wisdom). My reasons: a) I worked in a debt collection company for a while as a paralegal. I've seen what happens on the other side of $160k of debt, and it ain't pretty. I'm very debt averse because of those experiences. b) I'm stuck in the NY Metropolitan area, due to significant other's job. Otherwise I'd have accepted a more prestigious school. c) I'm female, so statistically I have a pretty high chance of either doing the mommy track or dropping out of the work force entirely. I don't plan on it, but I do plan on having kids at some point. I don't think it prudent to get myself into massive amounts of non-dischargeable debt when there is the chance that I will not be able to pay it off.
2. Reasons for not applying to a better MBA- see (b) and (c) above. And for what it's worth, US News and World Report ranks Rutgers as the third best program for Supply Chain Management.

BigZuck
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby BigZuck » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:28 pm

a-quad wrote:Sorry, it's been a busy week.
1. I actually got into NYU and other T-14s, with some money, and turned it down (yes, I know, goes against classic TLS wisdom). My reasons: a) I worked in a debt collection company for a while as a paralegal. I've seen what happens on the other side of $160k of debt, and it ain't pretty. I'm very debt averse because of those experiences. b) I'm stuck in the NY Metropolitan area, due to significant other's job. Otherwise I'd have accepted a more prestigious school. c) I'm female, so statistically I have a pretty high chance of either doing the mommy track or dropping out of the work force entirely. I don't plan on it, but I do plan on having kids at some point. I don't think it prudent to get myself into massive amounts of non-dischargeable debt when there is the chance that I will not be able to pay it off.
2. Reasons for not applying to a better MBA- see (b) and (c) above. And for what it's worth, US News and World Report ranks Rutgers as the third best program for Supply Chain Management.


Retake

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jingosaur
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby jingosaur » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:50 pm

a-quad wrote:And for what it's worth, US News and World Report ranks Rutgers as the third best program for Supply Chain Management.


Image

Do you know how they come up with specialty rankings? Well now you know:

US News wrote:Specialty rankings: These rankings, including executive MBA, are based solely on ratings by business school deans and directors of accredited master's programs from the list of schools surveyed. They were asked to nominate up to 10 programs for excellence in each of the areas listed.

Those schools receiving the most votes in each specialty are listed and are numerically ranked in descending order based on the number of nominations they received as long as the school/program received seven or more nominations in that specialty area. This means that schools ranked at the bottom of each specialty ranking have received seven nominations.


All specialty rankings say is that there's a professor at that school who knows a lot of Deans. If I were you, I would aim for something like the Stern Part-Time MBA and then work from there. You don't need a law degree for logistics unless a company wants you to be their in-house counsel and will pay for your law school or something.

WhirledWorld
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby WhirledWorld » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:00 pm

Just curious--why law? I always thought logistics was like the opposite of the law. With logistics, you get to see stuff from beginning to end, there's an element of craftsmanship, you get to see and work with the actual product.

In law, you often will jump in and out of projects or only contribute one small piece like a cog in a bigger wheel. You're as far from factory floors as possible. And efficiency or meeting consumer needs is a fairly unimportant part of the equation.

KingofSplitters55
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby KingofSplitters55 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:09 am

Doesn't Cardozo also offer a JD-MBA? Definitely talk with their office about it. If they want you enough to give you a full-ride I'm sure they'd be willing to help guide you through the process of getting the MBA too.

I'd say definitely don't give up the full-ride so easily. JD-MBA programs are everywhere and a full-ride is a rarity to not be tossed aside so quickly.

a-quad
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby a-quad » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:33 am

Nope, Cardozo doesn't offer a JD-MBA program. Their business school doesn't have a Master's program (just an undergrad program and an Executive MBA). I'd need to do it at a different institution.
I'm not going to retake: I am staying in NYC. I'm not a minority, so I'm not getting a lot of money from Columbia or NYU, and I refuse to go to either without at least 1/3 scholarship. Fordham's employment stats aren't much better than Cardozo, and I got $30k from them last time- I'd only go to Fordham at this point if it were free. Again, I'm very very debt averse.

Just curious--why law? I always thought logistics was like the opposite of the law. With logistics, you get to see stuff from beginning to end, there's an element of craftsmanship, you get to see and work with the actual product.

In law, you often will jump in and out of projects or only contribute one small piece like a cog in a bigger wheel. You're as far from factory floors as possible. And efficiency or meeting consumer needs is a fairly unimportant part of the equation.


1) Free law school for only a year extra of school- I'll take that if I can swing it 2) I would want to work for a large supplier (think H&M, Zara, Walmart, Apple- the list goes on and on), either as in-house counsel or looking at macro-level supply chains. At the moment, I'm just doing imports-exports, which is great experience, but long term I want to create and manage the supply chains that gets people their foreign goods into their hands.

I called both schools- Cardozo was open to the idea, Rutgers was more 'eh'. On the other hand, if I can make final exam scheds work, I could always do a year of Cardozo, do a year of Rutgers, transfer into the Rutgers part-time program (which is possible) and then do 2 years of Cardozo full time while doing Rutgers part-time.
Or, and this would fly in the face of all things TLS holds holy: first day of Cardozo classes, I apply to Rutgers for a transfer for the next academic semester, which would allow me to also do their joint-degree. Lol, guess I'll see what happens when I start Cardozo in the fall.

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Lwoods
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby Lwoods » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:52 am

I started to respond when you initially posted this but decided to sit back since the field of logistics is broader than the sliver of it I know. But now you've noted that you want to work for a major retailer.

I used to work in retail planning for a major retailer. A number of my coworkers had started in the DCs with backgrounds in supply-chain management before moving to planning and allocation roles. You don't need a graduate-level degree to break into that field...as you know because you're already in it.

An MBA may be useful, but there are a number of companies who will pay for at least a portion of your tuition. I'm pretty sure both Stern and CBS have part-time MBA programs. That would minimize your debt. If you're not at a company currently that would pay for your MBA, find one that will.

I'm not so sure a JD will be worth it. Do you want to do logistics or go in-house? You've mentioned both. For logistics, do you know anyone in those roles with a JD? I know you e said you've been told it'd be useful, but simply because a job requires some knowledge of law does not necessarily make a law degree an asset. It may be just as worth while to take a few targeted extension courses on the relevant topics. Or maybe even a masters in law (I met an HR manager who was doing this). But a JD may be overkill at best and could hinder your career by taking you out of the field for 3 years.

I think your in house goals sound really cool (no sarcasm), but that's definitely a long-term strategy. It's nearly impossible to get a long-term in-house gig straight out of law school; most want you to have firm experience. You're severely decreasing your chances of landing a firm job by declining admittance to T14s.

Finally, please read Lean In.

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jingosaur
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby jingosaur » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:32 am

a-quad wrote:I'm not a minority, so I'm not getting a lot of money from Columbia or NYU


:roll:

I still think you're a better candidate for just an MBA (now a second person suggested Stern part-time). FWIW, with your GPA, a 172 will get you a nice scholarship at NYU and a 173 would get you around a half scholarship at Columbia. But if you don't have the drive to retake, you probably won't have the drive to get through 3 years of law school. Cordozo is only a good school if you finish in the top 1/4 of the class and it seems like much more than 1/4 of the class will be more dedicated towards getting there than you will be.

BigZuck
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby BigZuck » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:53 am

a-quad wrote:Nope, Cardozo doesn't offer a JD-MBA program. Their business school doesn't have a Master's program (just an undergrad program and an Executive MBA). I'd need to do it at a different institution.
I'm not going to retake: I am staying in NYC. I'm not a minority, so I'm not getting a lot of money from Columbia or NYU, and I refuse to go to either without at least 1/3 scholarship. Fordham's employment stats aren't much better than Cardozo, and I got $30k from them last time- I'd only go to Fordham at this point if it were free. Again, I'm very very debt averse.

Just curious--why law? I always thought logistics was like the opposite of the law. With logistics, you get to see stuff from beginning to end, there's an element of craftsmanship, you get to see and work with the actual product.

In law, you often will jump in and out of projects or only contribute one small piece like a cog in a bigger wheel. You're as far from factory floors as possible. And efficiency or meeting consumer needs is a fairly unimportant part of the equation.


1) Free law school for only a year extra of school- I'll take that if I can swing it 2) I would want to work for a large supplier (think H&M, Zara, Walmart, Apple- the list goes on and on), either as in-house counsel or looking at macro-level supply chains. At the moment, I'm just doing imports-exports, which is great experience, but long term I want to create and manage the supply chains that gets people their foreign goods into their hands.

I called both schools- Cardozo was open to the idea, Rutgers was more 'eh'. On the other hand, if I can make final exam scheds work, I could always do a year of Cardozo, do a year of Rutgers, transfer into the Rutgers part-time program (which is possible) and then do 2 years of Cardozo full time while doing Rutgers part-time.
Or, and this would fly in the face of all things TLS holds holy: first day of Cardozo classes, I apply to Rutgers for a transfer for the next academic semester, which would allow me to also do their joint-degree. Lol, guess I'll see what happens when I start Cardozo in the fall.


Retake, enjoy NYU/Columbia for cheapsies

Or don't go to law school

drevo
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby drevo » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:34 pm

a-quad wrote:1) Free law school for only a year extra of school


Yeah it's not free. Because you lose out on THREE years of foregone salary.

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby iamgeorgebush » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:37 am

One thing: I'd be careful about letting any personal experience of "being on the other side of debt collection" color what should be an objective economic analysis. Your choice of law schools should be an impartial, dispassionate decision ruled by reason. The possibility of leaving the workforce to be a full-time mother is a risk that you should definitely account for (and it might suggest that law school is too risky an investment), but no one should choose Cardozo over NYU, even full-ride vs. sticker, even if they're extremely "debt-averse."

collegewriter
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby collegewriter » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:44 pm

OP: You are CRAZY to do both at the same time. In addition, it will be hard for you to stay motivated throughout 4 years. Most people are burnt out after 2 years. To get a "good job", you need to apply after 1 year of law school for big firms. You will have no business classes under your belt and your JD/MBA will not help your job prospects (maybe you only care about the JD/MBA for experience in both-in which case go you!). You are better off going to a business program for 1 year and then doing 3 years of law school. You can then market yourself in law school as someone with a business degree and commitment to a field. Without the awkward breaks from law school that doing your MBA will cause (or the absolute panic that doing both at the same time will induce), your grades will be better. If you have good grades and a good story about what you want to do in the future, you are likely to get a great job.

Firms (not just law firms, but banks and other institutions) want to know that you will be a committed employee who wants a career there, not just a few years of high salary to pay off debt. You are in a good position to do this if you go about the two separately.

And don't listen to people who hate on Cardozo. Better quality of life here and I got a great job for the summer (it might be something you are interested in so message me for details if you want). Someone who wants to do a non-traditional legal profession would greatly benefit from going to Cardozo with a full ride v. NYU (where you are benefitted more if you want to work at a big law firm) at sticker. Just read horror stories about people who pay sticker wrongly assuming they are way too smart to be in the bottom of the class and then live at home for the next ten years of their life.

Good luck!

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jbagelboy
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:42 pm

collegewriter wrote:OP: You are CRAZY to do both at the same time. In addition, it will be hard for you to stay motivated throughout 4 years. Most people are burnt out after 2 years. To get a "good job", you need to apply after 1 year of law school for big firms. You will have no business classes under your belt and your JD/MBA will not help your job prospects (maybe you only care about the JD/MBA for experience in both-in which case go you!). You are better off going to a business program for 1 year and then doing 3 years of law school. You can then market yourself in law school as someone with a business degree and commitment to a field. Without the awkward breaks from law school that doing your MBA will cause (or the absolute panic that doing both at the same time will induce), your grades will be better. If you have good grades and a good story about what you want to do in the future, you are likely to get a great job.

Firms (not just law firms, but banks and other institutions) want to know that you will be a committed employee who wants a career there, not just a few years of high salary to pay off debt. You are in a good position to do this if you go about the two separately.

And don't listen to people who hate on Cardozo. Better quality of life here and I got a great job for the summer (it might be something you are interested in so message me for details if you want). Someone who wants to do a non-traditional legal profession would greatly benefit from going to Cardozo with a full ride v. NYU (where you are benefitted more if you want to work at a big law firm) at sticker. Just read horror stories about people who pay sticker wrongly assuming they are way too smart to be in the bottom of the class and then live at home for the next ten years of their life.

Good luck!


I disagree with a chuck of this, but its finals so Ill have to explain why later.

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mephistopheles
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby mephistopheles » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:24 pm

came here for "JD vs meth"

disappointed.

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midwest17
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby midwest17 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:13 am

collegewriter wrote:And don't listen to people who hate on Cardozo. Better quality of life here and I got a great job for the summer (it might be something you are interested in so message me for details if you want). Someone who wants to do a non-traditional legal profession would greatly benefit from going to Cardozo with a full ride v. NYU (where you are benefitted more if you want to work at a big law firm) at sticker. Just read horror stories about people who pay sticker wrongly assuming they are way too smart to be in the bottom of the class and then live at home for the next ten years of their life.


http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cardozo

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withoutapaddle
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Re: JD vs. MBA or both

Postby withoutapaddle » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:07 pm

I'm considering doing a one year mba at cambridge or Oxford after law school.

The only way I'd do a jd/mba program at the same school is if it's from:

HYSCC

Penn/Wharton

Maybe NYU, Cornell, and NU.

Keep in mind these programs aren't cheap. Another idea is to do awesome in law school, get a good job, rock the GMAT.

This would add schools you could apply to such as TUCK.

Keep in mind NU and other schools will run you 74K for tution a year for a dual degree. Tack on living expenses and you're looking at 100K+ a year.

You'll need a trust fund or a wealthy wife/parents to pay that off




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