What went wrong? Forum
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What went wrong?
167 LSAT (once)
3.85 LSAC GPA at time of applying
Don't see why any of the LORs would be bad
Very good undergrad school (top 10, but transferred junior year from a not so great school)
Quite involved at school(s)
Prelaw dean said personal statement is excellent
Straight out of undergrad
No work experience b/c working for parents in the family biz, but wrote an addendum about that
Interesting academic background (skipping grades, transferring from a bad school to a great one, etc)
Applied early December
Applied to most of T14 + UCLA. I knew I had no chance at the top 5 but it looks worse right now - I've been rejected/waitlisted at the majority of the schools and haven't received an acceptance yet, and I don't think I'm getting in anywhere at this point in the cycle when all acceptances were probably sent out already. I am mostly freaking out because of the UCLA wait list and Michigan rejection. What do you think went wrong? Should I just reapply next cycle if it's an LSAT thing? How do you think age affects this? I'm two or three years younger than people my year because I skipped grades (but seriously? I skipped first and third grade).
3.85 LSAC GPA at time of applying
Don't see why any of the LORs would be bad
Very good undergrad school (top 10, but transferred junior year from a not so great school)
Quite involved at school(s)
Prelaw dean said personal statement is excellent
Straight out of undergrad
No work experience b/c working for parents in the family biz, but wrote an addendum about that
Interesting academic background (skipping grades, transferring from a bad school to a great one, etc)
Applied early December
Applied to most of T14 + UCLA. I knew I had no chance at the top 5 but it looks worse right now - I've been rejected/waitlisted at the majority of the schools and haven't received an acceptance yet, and I don't think I'm getting in anywhere at this point in the cycle when all acceptances were probably sent out already. I am mostly freaking out because of the UCLA wait list and Michigan rejection. What do you think went wrong? Should I just reapply next cycle if it's an LSAT thing? How do you think age affects this? I'm two or three years younger than people my year because I skipped grades (but seriously? I skipped first and third grade).
- dr123
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Re: What went wrong?
weak softs and not a high enough lsat?
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Re: What went wrong?
What went wrong was your expectations. Your numbers make your target range the 15-25 schools, not 15 and up. Your target schools are ones like Vanderbilt, GW, BU, Notre Dame, etc. Sure, applying to T14 schools was a good idea since you need some reach schools thrown in. But applying to all reach schools is never a good idea. And you didn't apply to a single safety.
Last edited by dakatz on Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What went wrong?
Thanks for your inputs!
Do you think I should study for and retake the LSAT& reapply, then?
Do you think I should study for and retake the LSAT& reapply, then?
- Patriot1208
- Posts: 7023
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Re: What went wrong?
This, few people with your numbers and softs will break the top 15. An LSAT retake that gets you 170+ will open up those schools you want.dakatz wrote:What went wrong was your expectations. Your numbers make your target range the 15-25 schools, not 15 and up.
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Re: What went wrong?
If you are deadset on a T14 school, then yes. But you would get some solid scholarship awards from schools in the 15-20 range. I wouldn't overlook those too quickly. But like I said, if you are T14 or bust, then its really important to hit that 170 marker.rosewood wrote:Thanks for your inputs!
Do you think I should study for and retake the LSAT& reapply, then?
- OGR3
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Re: What went wrong?
According to LSP, you were a 50% shot at Michigan.
You might get into Cornell and maybe one or two more. If that's not what you'e looking for, retake and apply very early next cycle.
I agree with the above poster though, you should have applied to some T25 schools...
You might get into Cornell and maybe one or two more. If that's not what you'e looking for, retake and apply very early next cycle.
I agree with the above poster though, you should have applied to some T25 schools...
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Re: What went wrong?
I see. Guess it's time to start cracking those books again (I did not apply to 15-20 range schools).
I've been waitlisted at UPenn and Columbia (reserve, as they call it), though. I thought it meant I'd probably get into UCLA...suppose I was being way enthusiastic.
I've been waitlisted at UPenn and Columbia (reserve, as they call it), though. I thought it meant I'd probably get into UCLA...suppose I was being way enthusiastic.

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Re: What went wrong?
LSP has him as a consider from Berkeley on down. I can see not getting most of them, but not getting any sucks.dakatz wrote:What went wrong was your expectations. Your numbers make your target range the 15-25 schools, not 15 and up. Your target schools are ones like Vanderbilt, GW, BU, Notre Dame, etc. Sure, applying to T14 schools was a good idea since you need some reach schools thrown in. But applying to all reach schools is never a good idea. And you didn't apply to a single safety.
- Patriot1208
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Re: What went wrong?
If you look at LSN, almost no one got in with an LSAT below 168 last year. LSP is very unreliable IMHO. I would say cornell is a possibility though, but probably the only one.OGR3 wrote:According to LSP, you were a 50% shot at Michigan.
You might get into Cornell and maybe one or two more. If that's not what you'e looking for, retake and apply very early next cycle.
I agree with the above poster though, you should have applied to some T25 schools...
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Re: What went wrong?
This is definitely a possibility. It's too much work too look up LSN for every school, thoughPatriot1208 wrote:LSP is very unreliable IMHO.

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Re: What went wrong?
OK, yeah, LSN says every school above Cornell is a reach. He should get Cornell though.d34dluk3 wrote:This is definitely a possibility. It's too much work too look up LSN for every school, thoughPatriot1208 wrote:LSP is very unreliable IMHO.
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Re: What went wrong?
Exactly...I thought I'd get into few of the "consider"s given my undergrad school. Not getting any does suck a lot...d34dluk3 wrote: LSP has him as a consider from Berkeley on down. I can see not getting most of them, but not getting any sucks.
hourumd.com had me down as 98% chance for both Cornell and UCLA, and I was waitlisted at UCLA. Thus, I am freaking out.Patriot1208 wrote: I would say cornell is a possibility though, but probably the only one.
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- Patriot1208
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Re: What went wrong?
Seriously, I think hourumd and LSP are useless. LSN gives you a far better understanding of the nuances of admissions. Some schools have gpa floors or LSAT floors. For instance, your GPA is at or above median for just about every top14 school. Which is why LSP and hourumd gave you good chances. But, your LSAT is below median and below most schools "soft" floor for the LSAT. And, LSAT matters much more in admissions.rosewood wrote:Exactly...I thought I'd get into few of the "consider"s given my undergrad school. Not getting any does suck a lot...d34dluk3 wrote: LSP has him as a consider from Berkeley on down. I can see not getting most of them, but not getting any sucks.
hourumd.com had me down as 98% chance for both Cornell and UCLA, and I was waitlisted at UCLA. Thus, I am freaking out.Patriot1208 wrote: I would say cornell is a possibility though, but probably the only one.
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Re: What went wrong?
Thanks guys, this is really helpful. I only started reading around here after I applied...sigh.
Does it look bad if I reapply to a school I was denied at/eventually denied at?
Does it look bad if I reapply to a school I was denied at/eventually denied at?
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Re: What went wrong?
hourumd claims to just be a statistical representation of LSN. LSP is a linear fit, which is pretty obviously flawed.Patriot1208 wrote:Seriously, I think hourumd and LSP are useless. LSN gives you a far better understanding of the nuances of admissions. Some schools have gpa floors or LSAT floors. For instance, your GPA is at or above median for just about every top14 school. Which is why LSP and hourumd gave you good chances. But, your LSAT is below median and below most schools "soft" floor for the LSAT. And, LSAT matters much more in admissions.
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Re: What went wrong?
You mean next cycle?rosewood wrote:Thanks guys, this is really helpful. I only started reading around here after I applied...sigh.
Does it look bad if I reapply to a school I was denied at/eventually denied at?
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- Patriot1208
- Posts: 7023
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Re: What went wrong?
No, it doesn't look bad. Study your ass off for the June LSAT, retake, get higher score, and profit.rosewood wrote:Thanks guys, this is really helpful. I only started reading around here after I applied...sigh.
Does it look bad if I reapply to a school I was denied at/eventually denied at?
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Re: What went wrong?
LSP paints an unrealistically rosy picture because its based on LSN. And LSN is a site that is skewed due to the number of high achieving students who post. You really think most people who get rejected take the time to post that info online on LSN? I had a number of "considers", maybe 8 or so. I applied to all 8 and got into 0 (yet got into a school that LSN told me was a reject. Go figure). But moral of the story is that LSP should only be a rough guide.d34dluk3 wrote:This is definitely a possibility. It's too much work too look up LSN for every school, thoughPatriot1208 wrote:LSP is very unreliable IMHO.
- Patriot1208
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Re: What went wrong?
No, it's not. And no, that isn't why. LSN is much more negatively skewed than LSP.dakatz wrote:LSP paints an unrealistically rosy picture because its based on LSN. And LSN is a site that is skewed due to the number of high achieving students who post. You really think most people who get rejected take the time to post that info online on LSN? I had a number of "considers", maybe 8 or so. I applied to all 8 and got into 0 (yet got into a school that LSN told me was a reject. Go figure). But moral of the story is that LSP should only be a rough guide.d34dluk3 wrote:This is definitely a possibility. It's too much work too look up LSN for every school, thoughPatriot1208 wrote:LSP is very unreliable IMHO.
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Re: What went wrong?
I would have guessed the LSN demographic was "neurotic internet browsers". I think the real high achieving students are busy working on their impressive activities.dakatz wrote:LSP paints an unrealistically rosy picture because its based on LSN. And LSN is a site that is skewed due to the number of high achieving students who post. You really think most people who get rejected take the time to post that info online on LSN? I had a number of "considers", maybe 8 or so. I applied to all 8 and got into 0 (yet got into a school that LSN told me was a reject. Go figure). But moral of the story is that LSP should only be a rough guide.d34dluk3 wrote:This is definitely a possibility. It's too much work too look up LSN for every school, thoughPatriot1208 wrote:LSP is very unreliable IMHO.
Also, SF has exceeded their LSN projections this year, so take that for what it's worth.
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Re: What went wrong?
I think it depends on where you are in the graph. For splitters I definitely agree. LSP is supposed to be statistically fit off of the LSN data, though, so you would hope it would be accurate in the crowded center.Patriot1208 wrote:No, it's not. And no, that isn't why. LSN is much more negatively skewed than LSP.
- Cupidity
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Re: What went wrong?
I had a 166 3.89 and didn't break t-14 your expectations were too high.
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Re: What went wrong?
Yes, now I know that.Cupidity wrote:I had a 166 3.89 and didn't break t-14 your expectations were too high.

I do mean the next cycle. I was planning on taking the October test, though, since June is so close. Is this a bad idea? :/
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Re: What went wrong?
Timing of June will help a little, but if you have everything ready and can submit as soon as you get your score, October will be fine.rosewood wrote:Yes, now I know that.Cupidity wrote:I had a 166 3.89 and didn't break t-14 your expectations were too high.
I do mean the next cycle. I was planning on taking the October test, though, since June is so close. Is this a bad idea? :/
Alternately, you could do June, see what you get, and take a third time in October if you're still unhappy.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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