If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

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Pricer
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Pricer » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:24 am

JazzOne wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:When I tell people that I want to be a space astronaut lawyer, they look at me like I'm an idiot!

Apparently they've never heard of this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Lawyer


Seriously, this is why people say that TLS is snarky. Jesus, just keep making the same damn joke. It was funny the first time, not so funny this time.

If anyone has an opinion that does completely dovetail with the majority then here come the jokes.

Wanting to work in international law is not the same thing as wanting to be president or an astronaut lawyer or the first person to pogo across Russia. Lots of people work in international law. It is probably only slightly harder to get a career in international law than it is to become a professor. So it's hard but it's not ridiculous.

Here is two second google search for some:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
http://cil.nus.edu.sg/about-2/cil-team-2/
http://www.kentlaw.edu/international/llm/faculty.html

I'm bored so I'll stop.

If you're so sure this is a viable career option, then why do you need the approval of TLS? Just do it.


I agree with JazzOne. If we are all wrong, and you are so sure you are going to practice "international law", then why do our opinions matter?

As everyone has already said, this is stupid. You don't go to law school to do international law.

You have to go to a top school, get recruited by a biglaw firm with offices in multiple countries, become the best in your area of specialization, and then work for your firm in domestic and foreign offices. That is international law.

Hey-O
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:55 am

Pricer wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:When I tell people that I want to be a space astronaut lawyer, they look at me like I'm an idiot!

Apparently they've never heard of this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Lawyer


Seriously, this is why people say that TLS is snarky. Jesus, just keep making the same damn joke. It was funny the first time, not so funny this time.

If anyone has an opinion that does completely dovetail with the majority then here come the jokes.

Wanting to work in international law is not the same thing as wanting to be president or an astronaut lawyer or the first person to pogo across Russia. Lots of people work in international law. It is probably only slightly harder to get a career in international law than it is to become a professor. So it's hard but it's not ridiculous.

Here is two second google search for some:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
http://cil.nus.edu.sg/about-2/cil-team-2/
http://www.kentlaw.edu/international/llm/faculty.html

I'm bored so I'll stop.

If you're so sure this is a viable career option, then why do you need the approval of TLS? Just do it.


I agree with JazzOne. If we are all wrong, and you are so sure you are going to practice "international law", then why do our opinions matter?


This is a handy arguing trick. 'Well, if you're so certain we're wrong then why do you care?' But it doesn't actually have anything do with the fact that there are lots of legal careers that do have an international aspect.

I do appreciate all the advice and I understand (and agree with) the opinion that most international law programs are pushed by schools and get graduates into difficult positions with hiring. That being said, I just think that the herd mentality is over zealous in its drive to shoot down everyone who mentions international law. If my goal was arguing cases before the ICC then I would agree that I'm most likely not going to get that. But wanting to work in an area of law that is international in nature is not ridiculous.

The job you just mentioned would be lovely. My first choice would be working for the government, or a non-profit (Mercy Corps International - I'm looking at you), but if I can't do that then working for a big firm and specializing in an area where I could some day work in concert with lawyers from other countries. That would be awesome, too. Of course I'm going to aim high. If I get the grades then I'll try for academia.

I'm just saying: where's the love people? Where is the love?

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nealric
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby nealric » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:21 am

This is a handy arguing trick. 'Well, if you're so certain we're wrong then why do you care?' But it doesn't actually have anything do with the fact that there are lots of legal careers that do have an international aspect.

I do appreciate all the advice and I understand (and agree with) the opinion that most international law programs are pushed by schools and get graduates into difficult positions with hiring. That being said, I just think that the herd mentality is over zealous in its drive to shoot down everyone who mentions international law. If my goal was arguing cases before the ICC then I would agree that I'm most likely not going to get that. But wanting to work in an area of law that is international in nature is not ridiculous.

The job you just mentioned would be lovely. My first choice would be working for the government, or a non-profit (Mercy Corps International - I'm looking at you), but if I can't do that then working for a big firm and specializing in an area where I could some day work in concert with lawyers from other countries. That would be awesome, too. Of course I'm going to aim high. If I get the grades then I'll try for academia.

I'm just saying: where's the love people? Where is the love?


I think the drive to shoot down such careers is a warning against the almost inevitable disappointment when people realize that either 1) they won't get the sexy public international jobs or 2) they get such a job and realize it's nothing like they thought.

BTW: this isn't a job in international law http://www.comparativeconstitutionsproj ... loyees.htm
That link is to a project run by a few law professors. Everyone who works on that is either a law professor or a law student.


Also, if your school isn't one of HYS, biglaw isn't much of a backup.

I'm just saying: where's the love people? Where is the love?


If you want love, visit your mom. If you want advice, come here.

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JazzOne
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:55 am

Hey-O wrote:This is a handy arguing trick. 'Well, if you're so certain we're wrong then why do you care?' But it doesn't actually have anything do with the fact that there are lots of legal careers that do have an international aspect.

I give advice that I believe is honest. If you don't like it, go soak your head. I use no tricks in my argumentation. Many of the people who responded to you are further along in this career than you are. Our perspectives are probably more informed than yours. If you insist on trying to prove us wrong, good for you. If you succeed, you can come on here and offer some counterpoint. But don't come crying if it doesn't work out because then you'll truly see how snarky TLS is.

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Patriot1208
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:06 pm

nealric wrote:
I'm just saying: where's the love people? Where is the love?


If you want love, visit your mom.

Personally, I think tls is a great place to find love

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worldtraveler
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:33 am

It's not that international law doesn't exist. It's that the term itself is so vague as to be useless. It exists in terms of human rights litigation before regional human rights courts. You can do this working for many NGOs. You can be a legal advisor at any number of UN agencies. Refugee law is international. Most of Human Rights Watch researchers have law degrees. Other NGO work like policy and advocacy counts.

Within the federal government, the DOJ, USAID, Homeland Security all have international components to their jobs.

There are actually lots of career paths within international law, but they just aren't as glamorous as people think. You can definitely do it and it certainly exists, but you have to actually put in your dues, too. You often need foreign languages, experience living abroad, and advanced degrees in other fields. Most people simply do not have this.

Hey-O
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:33 am

nealric wrote:
Also, if your school isn't one of HYS, biglaw isn't much of a backup.



I'm deciding b/t Columbia and Chicago. Probably Columbia b/c it's in New York.

viking138
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby viking138 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:57 am

My BF works in the legal dept of a hedge fund and communicates with lawyers all over the world since the fund has a lot of international dealings. Finance has become increasingly globalized, and places like Hong Kong are playing a larger and larger role in transactions. Lots of corporate lawyers work in finance, but if you specifically try to get on deals that involve international financial aspects, you'll probably have a lot of communication with lawyers in other countries. Just something to consider.

People who say there is no international law are either repeating what they've read elsewhere or are saying there is no such thing as an international body of law that lawyers practice (things like arguing in front of the ICC are ridiculously unlikely to happen). However, there are a lot of corporate lawyers, and particularly in-house counsel at financial firms, who figure out laws of other countries on a daily basis in order to be sure they're following both U.S. laws and the laws of the country they're doing deals in. So if you're interested in comparative law, that's definitely something to consider.

spondee
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby spondee » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:04 am

worldtraveler wrote:It's not that international law doesn't exist. It's that the term itself is so vague as to be useless. It exists in terms of human rights litigation before regional human rights courts. You can do this working for many NGOs. You can be a legal advisor at any number of UN agencies. Refugee law is international. Most of Human Rights Watch researchers have law degrees. Other NGO work like policy and advocacy counts.

Within the federal government, the DOJ, USAID, Homeland Security all have international components to their jobs.

There are actually lots of career paths within international law, but they just aren't as glamorous as people think. You can definitely do it and it certainly exists, but you have to actually put in your dues, too. You often need foreign languages, experience living abroad, and advanced degrees in other fields. Most people simply do not have this.


This is probably the best answer you're going to get.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby JusticeHarlan » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:24 pm

Pricer wrote:Yeah, I hate when I ask people how to get into being the President of the United States, and they tell me there's no way. Have they ever heard of this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

And he's not even the only one! I could name 43 other people off the top of my head that have had this same job!

No you can't. You can name at most 42 other people.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby D. H2Oman » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:31 pm

Hey-O wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:When I tell people that I want to be a space astronaut lawyer, they look at me like I'm an idiot!

Apparently they've never heard of this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Lawyer


Seriously, this is why people say that TLS is snarky. Jesus, just keep making the same damn joke. It was funny the first time, not so funny this time.

If anyone has an opinion that does completely dovetail with the majority then here come the jokes.

Wanting to work in international law is not the same thing as wanting to be president or an astronaut lawyer or the first person to pogo across Russia. Lots of people work in international law. It is probably only slightly harder to get a career in international law than it is to become a professor. So it's hard but it's not ridiculous.

Here is two second google search for some:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
http://cil.nus.edu.sg/about-2/cil-team-2/
http://www.kentlaw.edu/international/llm/faculty.html

I'm bored so I'll stop.




lol

let me go find a self pwnage gif

brb

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D. H2Oman
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby D. H2Oman » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:35 pm

--ImageRemoved--

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nealric
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby nealric » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:56 pm

However, there are a lot of corporate lawyers, and particularly in-house counsel at financial firms, who figure out laws of other countries on a daily basis in order to be sure they're following both U.S. laws and the laws of the country they're doing deals in. So if you're interested in comparative law, that's definitely something to consider.


Sure, but international financial regulation is not what you learn about when you take all the fun international law courses that schools are pushing. My practice involves international issues almost daily, but people would laugh if I said that I specialized in international law (and rightly so).

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Grizz
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Grizz » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:00 pm

viking138 wrote:People who say there is no international law are either repeating what they've read elsewhere or are saying there is no such thing as an international body of law that lawyers practice (things like arguing in front of the ICC are ridiculously unlikely to happen). However, there are a lot of corporate lawyers, and particularly in-house counsel at financial firms, who figure out laws of other countries on a daily basis in order to be sure they're following both U.S. laws and the laws of the country they're doing deals in. So if you're interested in comparative law, that's definitely something to consider.


The people I know who do international transactions don't need experience in other legal systems. People generally hire American lawyers to do deals in America, French lawyers to do deals in France, etc.

viking138
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby viking138 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:04 pm

rad law wrote:
viking138 wrote:People who say there is no international law are either repeating what they've read elsewhere or are saying there is no such thing as an international body of law that lawyers practice (things like arguing in front of the ICC are ridiculously unlikely to happen). However, there are a lot of corporate lawyers, and particularly in-house counsel at financial firms, who figure out laws of other countries on a daily basis in order to be sure they're following both U.S. laws and the laws of the country they're doing deals in. So if you're interested in comparative law, that's definitely something to consider.


The people I know who do international transactions don't need experience in other legal systems. People generally hire American lawyers to do deals in America, French lawyers to do deals in France, etc.


You don't need experience in other legal systems, but oftentimes you do have to figure out if you're applying their law correctly. For example, will you have to file if you're over/under some percentage under that country's laws. It's not what people generally think of when they say they want to do international law, obviously, but it is international and it is law. It sounds like the OP is interested in practicing with foreign lawyers, so that could be something he'd enjoy.

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tea_drinker
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby tea_drinker » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:15 pm

rad law wrote:
viking138 wrote:People who say there is no international law are either repeating what they've read elsewhere or are saying there is no such thing as an international body of law that lawyers practice (things like arguing in front of the ICC are ridiculously unlikely to happen). However, there are a lot of corporate lawyers, and particularly in-house counsel at financial firms, who figure out laws of other countries on a daily basis in order to be sure they're following both U.S. laws and the laws of the country they're doing deals in. So if you're interested in comparative law, that's definitely something to consider.


The people I know who do international transactions don't need experience in other legal systems. People generally hire American lawyers to do deals in America, French lawyers to do deals in France, etc.


This. Also, as I mentioned, I think people tend to mislabel international law. If a lawyer practice law in france, s/he is practicing either french law or American law in france. Same goes with those who base in China or other countries. Their works are international in the sense that they are not physically present in the U.S., but they still largely focus on US law (or one country specific law)

viking138
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby viking138 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:18 pm

tea_drinker wrote:
rad law wrote:
viking138 wrote:People who say there is no international law are either repeating what they've read elsewhere or are saying there is no such thing as an international body of law that lawyers practice (things like arguing in front of the ICC are ridiculously unlikely to happen). However, there are a lot of corporate lawyers, and particularly in-house counsel at financial firms, who figure out laws of other countries on a daily basis in order to be sure they're following both U.S. laws and the laws of the country they're doing deals in. So if you're interested in comparative law, that's definitely something to consider.


The people I know who do international transactions don't need experience in other legal systems. People generally hire American lawyers to do deals in America, French lawyers to do deals in France, etc.


This. Also, as I mentioned, I think people tend to mislabel international law. If a lawyer practice law in france, s/he is practicing either french law or American law in france. Same goes with those who base in China or other countries. Their works are international in the sense that they are not physically present in the U.S., but they still largely focus on US law (or one country specific law)


This is certainly true since more and more transactions in foreign countries use American law. A partner at Davis Polk I talked to said that their Hong Kong office dealt almost entirely with legal matters involving American law. It's kind of like English being the language of business; things like the federal rules of civil procedure are used in many places because everyone is on the same page and it simplifies things.




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