If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

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Hey-O
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If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:28 am

I would love to have his career. :
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/ginsburg-t

Or there's this guy:

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/dam

But I think that is shooting a little too high.

Every time I ask about international law people act like I'm the biggest idiot and deliberately being obtuse. Is it that careers like this are like hoping to be on the Supreme Court and if I didn't score a 179 on my LSAT I'm out of luck? Or is it just that careers like this are uncommon? Or that most people don't have these career goals so they don't know about people like this?

I'm just curious.

09042014
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:31 am

Hey-O wrote:I would love to have his career. :
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/ginsburg-t

Or there's this guy:

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/dam

But I think that is shooting a little too high.

Every time I ask about international law people act like I'm the biggest idiot and deliberately being obtuse. Is it that careers like this are like hoping to be on the Supreme Court and if I didn't score a 179 on my LSAT I'm out of luck? Or is it just that careers like this are uncommon? Or that most people don't have these career goals so they don't know about people like this?

I'm just curious.

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fatduck
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby fatduck » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:39 am

i get the same thing when i tell people i want to do constitutional law

and i'm like uh have you ever heard of this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roberts

and he's not the only one, i could name eight other people off the top of my head doing the same type of work

Army2Law
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Army2Law » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:44 am

fatduck wrote:i get the same thing when i tell people i want to do constitutional law

and i'm like uh have you ever heard of this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roberts

and he's not the only one, i could name eight other people off the top of my head doing the same type of work

180

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Lawquacious
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:47 am

Hey-O wrote:I would love to have his career. :
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/ginsburg-t

Or there's this guy:

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/dam

But I think that is shooting a little too high.

Every time I ask about international law people act like I'm the biggest idiot and deliberately being obtuse. Is it that careers like this are like hoping to be on the Supreme Court and if I didn't score a 179 on my LSAT I'm out of luck? Or is it just that careers like this are uncommon? Or that most people don't have these career goals so they don't know about people like this?

I'm just curious.



My take is that international law is a legitimate emphasis that a person can have in law school and in practice, but it is more of a generally descriptive label, rather than being a concrete substantive practice area. Usually to get into 'international law' you would need to work for a major firm that has international offices and dealings, or you would need to get involved with some sort of government agency where you have international assignments or are involved in regulation or legislation that is transnational. Both of these ways of getting involved in 'international law' would likely require excellent performance in law school, and to get the types of jobs that operate with this international scope it generally helps to have gone to a top school. Another way to go into 'international law' may be to choose sort of non-profit work in another country or to have existing international connections that can be a foundation for practice; there are U.S. trained attorneys who use legal skills in a wide-variety of ways throughout the world, and in some sense a lawyer who took this route could probably be said to practice in an international context and loosely fall under the umbrella of international law as well IMO.

Edit: I think this is a tricky topic since one could do work that involves transnational litigation or regulation and not necessarily be practicing 'international law.' I think though that someone who gains a lot of experience working on transnational legal issues could be said to specialize in international law, especially if eventually they started work as a consultant to others on how to interface with other particular national legal systems outside the U.S.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey-O
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:48 am

fatduck wrote:i get the same thing when i tell people i want to do constitutional law

and i'm like uh have you ever heard of this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roberts

and he's not the only one, i could name eight other people off the top of my head doing the same type of work


So it really is that going into international law is as difficult as getting on the Supreme Court? That seems like a bit of an overstatement.


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Veyron
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Veyron » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:09 am

Sure international law exists.

(1) In-house at international corporations
(2) International transactions

The first takes about 5 years of biglaw experience. The second IS biglaw (its too bad for you that "international" law in this context is Delaware law).

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tea_drinker
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby tea_drinker » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:17 am



tl;dr. Although, it does have a good opening, so save it for another day (at least not friday night)

People often say international law doesn't exist because there are no such things as international law. There are international treaties that countries ratify, but no one country or no one organization has the authority to execute such treaties. Perhaps the more accurate terms that you can use are transnational law and/or comparative law. In these types of law, you pick an issue, an American legal issue. Then, you look at it from a foreign perspective, and perhaps compare between countries. Like those UChicago professors, one focuses on constitutional law, while another focuses on economic (and maybe transactional law). They pick their issues of interest, and they compare these issues under the American legal system and under systems in other developed countries. What they publish will be beneficial to the US. What they publish may be used to innovate new policy and be enforced in the US.

Short version: the term "international law" is loosely used. Thus, if you know what you are talking about, then international law exists. If not, then you get laughed at.

Hey-O
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:23 am

tea_drinker wrote:


tl;dr. Although, it does have a good opening, so save it for another day (at least not friday night)

People often say international law doesn't exist because there are no such things as international law. There are international treaties that countries ratify, but no one country or no one organization has the authority to execute such treaties. Perhaps the more accurate terms that you can use are transnational law and/or comparative law. In these types of law, you pick an issue, an American legal issue. Then, you look at it from a foreign perspective, and perhaps compare between countries. Like those UChicago professors, one focuses on constitutional law, while another focuses on economic (and maybe transactional law). They pick their issues of interest, and they compare these issues under the American legal system and under systems in other developed countries. What they publish will be beneficial to the US. What they publish may be used to innovate new policy and be enforced in the US.

Short version: the term "international law" is loosely used. Thus, if you know what you are talking about, then international law exists. If not, then you get laughed at.


Conversely, it may also be used in other countries to develop their legal system. Which is what I'm hoping for. Someday, I'd love to work for groups that work on law and governance issues in other countries and use my knowledge of American law (specializing in good governance) to develop laws in other countries. It's a tall order, but that's what you have a career for.

I'm just saying that shitting on every person who wants to practice international law isn't justified. There are lots of people who have done no research and have no idea what their talking about, but it doesn't mean that there aren't people out who don't work with aspects of various legal systems that international in nature.

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Grizz
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:26 am

Hey-O wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:


tl;dr. Although, it does have a good opening, so save it for another day (at least not friday night)

People often say international law doesn't exist because there are no such things as international law. There are international treaties that countries ratify, but no one country or no one organization has the authority to execute such treaties. Perhaps the more accurate terms that you can use are transnational law and/or comparative law. In these types of law, you pick an issue, an American legal issue. Then, you look at it from a foreign perspective, and perhaps compare between countries. Like those UChicago professors, one focuses on constitutional law, while another focuses on economic (and maybe transactional law). They pick their issues of interest, and they compare these issues under the American legal system and under systems in other developed countries. What they publish will be beneficial to the US. What they publish may be used to innovate new policy and be enforced in the US.

Short version: the term "international law" is loosely used. Thus, if you know what you are talking about, then international law exists. If not, then you get laughed at.


Conversely, it may also be used in other countries to develop their legal system. Which is what I'm hoping for. Someday, I'd love to work for groups that work on law and governance issues in other countries and use my knowledge of American law (specializing in good governance) to develop laws in other countries. It's a tall order, but that's what you have a career for.

I'm just saying that shitting on every person who wants to practice international law isn't justified. There are lots of people who have done no research and have no idea what their talking about, but it doesn't mean that there aren't people out who don't work with aspects of various legal systems that international in nature.


You can start this career by going to HYS (or so) and becoming a T6 (or so) prof.

Hey-O
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:27 am



Thanks for the article. It is something to think about.

Hey-O
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:28 am

rad law wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:


tl;dr. Although, it does have a good opening, so save it for another day (at least not friday night)

People often say international law doesn't exist because there are no such things as international law. There are international treaties that countries ratify, but no one country or no one organization has the authority to execute such treaties. Perhaps the more accurate terms that you can use are transnational law and/or comparative law. In these types of law, you pick an issue, an American legal issue. Then, you look at it from a foreign perspective, and perhaps compare between countries. Like those UChicago professors, one focuses on constitutional law, while another focuses on economic (and maybe transactional law). They pick their issues of interest, and they compare these issues under the American legal system and under systems in other developed countries. What they publish will be beneficial to the US. What they publish may be used to innovate new policy and be enforced in the US.

Short version: the term "international law" is loosely used. Thus, if you know what you are talking about, then international law exists. If not, then you get laughed at.


Conversely, it may also be used in other countries to develop their legal system. Which is what I'm hoping for. Someday, I'd love to work for groups that work on law and governance issues in other countries and use my knowledge of American law (specializing in good governance) to develop laws in other countries. It's a tall order, but that's what you have a career for.

I'm just saying that shitting on every person who wants to practice international law isn't justified. There are lots of people who have done no research and have no idea what their talking about, but it doesn't mean that there aren't people out who don't work with aspects of various legal systems that international in nature.


You can start this career by going to HYS (or so) and becoming a T6 (or so) prof.


I know. :( Why don't I want to do something easier? I can't get into HYS, but I might be able to transfer. :(

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tea_drinker
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby tea_drinker » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:29 am

Hey-O wrote:Conversely, it may also be used in other countries to develop their legal system. Which is what I'm hoping for. Someday, I'd love to work for groups that work on law and governance issues in other countries and use my knowledge of American law (specializing in good governance) to develop laws in other countries. It's a tall order, but that's what you have a career for.

I'm just saying that shitting on every person who wants to practice international law isn't justified. There are lots of people who have done no research and have no idea what their talking about, but it doesn't mean that there aren't people out who don't work with aspects of various legal systems that international in nature.


I think we call this the U.S. Government, no? Current examples: Afghanistan and Iraq.

Edit: not intend to troll. I am drinking, and it's late friday night.
Last edited by tea_drinker on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:31 am

My take is striving for this type of intl. law is fine, but it the only thing you want to do is this type of policy type work, chances are you're gonna end up disappointed. You have to be cool with doing something else, like working for a firm or trying to gun for State Dept. or something.

Hey-O
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:37 am

rad law wrote:My take is striving for this type of intl. law is fine, but it the only thing you want to do is this type of policy type work, chances are you're gonna end up disappointed. You have to be cool with doing something else, like working for a firm or trying to gun for State Dept. or something.


I know. If I can't find a public interest job then I think I could find firm work that I could live with. At least for a few years until I'd paid down my debt. It's a risk, but it's one I want to take. Go big or go home. :?:

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Pricer
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Pricer » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:23 am

fatduck wrote:i get the same thing when i tell people i want to do constitutional law

and i'm like uh have you ever heard of this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roberts

and he's not the only one, i could name eight other people off the top of my head doing the same type of work


Yeah, I hate when I ask people how to get into being the President of the United States, and they tell me there's no way. Have they ever heard of this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

And he's not even the only one! I could name 43 other people off the top of my head that have had this same job!

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nealric
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby nealric » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:25 am

If you want to work on international deals, just about any biglaw firm will do at least some cross border work. I work on international stuff all the time.

The "public" international stuff is the realm of law professors (who mostly just get paid to pointificate about it), a tiny select group of government and public interest workers, and some JAG officers. All but the last in that list are almost impossible to plan to do in advance.
Last edited by nealric on Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JazzOne
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:30 am

Pricer wrote:
fatduck wrote:i get the same thing when i tell people i want to do constitutional law

and i'm like uh have you ever heard of this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roberts

and he's not the only one, i could name eight other people off the top of my head doing the same type of work


Yeah, I hate when I ask people how to get into being the President of the United States, and they tell me there's no way. Have they ever heard of this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

And he's not even the only one! I could name 43 other people off the top of my head that have had this same job!

lol

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JazzOne
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:32 am

Hey-O wrote:I know. :( Why don't I want to do something easier? I can't get into HYS, but I might be able to transfer. :(

So, you want to to be in the <1% of law students who transfer to HYS and then be in the <1% of HYS students who go on to work in international law? Do you really not get why people find this amusing? I'd like to hit the lottery too. That's a solid career strategy, right?

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Adjudicator
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Adjudicator » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:37 am

When I tell people that I want to be a space astronaut lawyer, they look at me like I'm an idiot!

Apparently they've never heard of this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Lawyer

Hey-O
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:58 am

Adjudicator wrote:When I tell people that I want to be a space astronaut lawyer, they look at me like I'm an idiot!

Apparently they've never heard of this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Lawyer


Seriously, this is why people say that TLS is snarky. Jesus, just keep making the same damn joke. It was funny the first time, not so funny this time.

If anyone has an opinion that does completely dovetail with the majority then here come the jokes.

Wanting to work in international law is not the same thing as wanting to be president or an astronaut lawyer or the first person to pogo across Russia. Lots of people work in international law. It is probably only slightly harder to get a career in international law than it is to become a professor. So it's hard but it's not ridiculous.

Here is two second google search for some:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
http://cil.nus.edu.sg/about-2/cil-team-2/
http://www.kentlaw.edu/international/llm/faculty.html

I'm bored so I'll stop.

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retake
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby retake » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:03 am

Adjudicator wrote:When I tell people that I want to be a space astronaut lawyer, they look at me like I'm an idiot!

Apparently they've never heard of this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Lawyer


I wish I could make people call me Dick Lawyer...

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JazzOne
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby JazzOne » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:07 am

Hey-O wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:When I tell people that I want to be a space astronaut lawyer, they look at me like I'm an idiot!

Apparently they've never heard of this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Lawyer


Seriously, this is why people say that TLS is snarky. Jesus, just keep making the same damn joke. It was funny the first time, not so funny this time.

If anyone has an opinion that does completely dovetail with the majority then here come the jokes.

Wanting to work in international law is not the same thing as wanting to be president or an astronaut lawyer or the first person to pogo across Russia. Lots of people work in international law. It is probably only slightly harder to get a career in international law than it is to become a professor. So it's hard but it's not ridiculous.

Here is two second google search for some:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
http://cil.nus.edu.sg/about-2/cil-team-2/
http://www.kentlaw.edu/international/llm/faculty.html

I'm bored so I'll stop.

If you're so sure this is a viable career option, then why do you need the approval of TLS? Just do it.

Hey-O
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Re: If International Law is not real then what about this guy?

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:08 am

retake wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:When I tell people that I want to be a space astronaut lawyer, they look at me like I'm an idiot!

Apparently they've never heard of this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_E._Lawyer


I wish I could make people call me Dick Lawyer...


You could change your name




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