Low GPA. High LSAT Score. Where can I expect to get in? Forum

[Nonok]

Well, I just found out my GPA is a lot worse than I expected. I thought a 3.32 would be reported to law schools and read the following on this forum:

Repeated Courses

All grades and credits earned for repeated courses will be included in the GPA calculation if the course units and grades appear on the transcript. A line drawn through course information or a grade does not eliminate the course from GPA calculation if the course units appear on the transcript.

I failed 3 courses and received a withdraw/fail in one other. I retook all these and got decent grades and didn't expect them to be on my record when I applied.

Anyways, my official LSAC GPA will be 3.02 with a strong upward trend in my grades (4.0 my last 3 semesters) and I took the Oct LSAT and am expecting to get a 175-178. My softs are not great. One year post-graduate working at a very prestigious company but only taking customer support phone calls. Should have one great LOR and two average ones. No URM status.

What are the best schools I can have a chance at getting in to?

[lolol10]

quick question on that. so i transferred schools (3) and took some summer courses i had different transcripts for each place. when i got to my current school they start you at a 0.000. so i have to procure transcripts for each place????? wtf lsac?

[Nonok]

quick question on that. so i transferred schools (3) and took some summer courses i had different transcripts for each place. when i got to my current school they start you at a 0.000. so i have to procure transcripts for each place????? wtf lsac?

It depends on how the school you transferred to handles the credits. My transferred credits are shown in full detail on my current transcript so I probably won't need to get one from the school I transferred from.

From LSAC website:

Transfer Credit

Work that appears as transfer credit on the sponsoring institution's transcript has not been completed under the clear sponsorship of the institution. It may still be referred to as the institution’s exchange program, study-abroad program, or consortium work. However, grades received in courses transferred from other institutions are typically not reported on the sponsoring institution's transcript, nor included in the sponsoring institution's GPA. They simply contribute credit towards a degree or elective requirement, assuming a grade of C or better was attained. Grades of C- and below typically do not transfer.

[lolol10]

ah ok i think they include that. im in a similiar situation i performed very poorly my first semester in college as a bio major receiving a D in a calc class which i promptly took over the following sem., thereby removing it from my gpa but keeping it still on the transcript, for an A. that would really piss me off if that goes on there. its like a jersey ginger orphan on my record.

[Nonok]

ah ok i think they include that. im in a similiar situation i performed very poorly my first semester in college as a bio major receiving a D in a calc class which i promptly took over the following sem., thereby removing it from my gpa but keeping it still on the transcript, for an A. that would really piss me off if that goes on there. its like a jersey ginger orphan on my record.

Yeah. It's going to go on your LSAC GPA. Sorry bro. I'm equally pissed. Going from a 3.32 to a 3.02 is devastating to my applications. I go from having a good change to getting into some of the T14 to maybe having no chance at all.

[lolol10]

ah ok i think they include that. im in a similiar situation i performed very poorly my first semester in college as a bio major receiving a D in a calc class which i promptly took over the following sem., thereby removing it from my gpa but keeping it still on the transcript, for an A. that would really piss me off if that goes on there. its like a jersey ginger orphan on my record.

Yeah. It's going to go on your LSAC GPA. Sorry bro. I'm equally pissed. Going from a 3.32 to a 3.02 is devastating to my applications. I go from having a good change to getting into some of the T14 to maybe having no chance at all.

thats MR

[Nonok]

ah ok i think they include that. im in a similiar situation i performed very poorly my first semester in college as a bio major receiving a D in a calc class which i promptly took over the following sem., thereby removing it from my gpa but keeping it still on the transcript, for an A. that would really piss me off if that goes on there. its like a jersey ginger orphan on my record.

Yeah. It's going to go on your LSAC GPA. Sorry bro. I'm equally pissed. Going from a 3.32 to a 3.02 is devastating to my applications. I go from having a good change to getting into some of the T14 to maybe having no chance at all.

thats MR

MR?

Edit: Also, is "jersey ginger orphan" a reference to last night's south park perhaps?

[lolol10]

ah ok i think they include that. im in a similiar situation i performed very poorly my first semester in college as a bio major receiving a D in a calc class which i promptly took over the following sem., thereby removing it from my gpa but keeping it still on the transcript, for an A. that would really piss me off if that goes on there. its like a jersey ginger orphan on my record.

Yeah. It's going to go on your LSAC GPA. Sorry bro. I'm equally pissed. Going from a 3.32 to a 3.02 is devastating to my applications. I go from having a good change to getting into some of the T14 to maybe having no chance at all.

thats MR

MR?
Edit: Also, is "jersey ginger orphan" a reference to last night's south park perhaps?

PC for retarded, mentally retarded or MR.

hells yeah! i felt using jew might be offensive on the forum. i figured orphan was the next worst thing?.....i kid

[FlightoftheEarls]

Michigan, Northwestern, and GULC will give you a look, based on http://www.hourumd.com with a 175 put in. Of course, that's fairly useless until you get an actual score.

Oddly enough, it says UVA is a 0%, but I thought for splitters with an LSAT above 170 and a GPA above 3.0 they were fairly generous assuming you ED. Can anyone clarify? Is there a higher GPA floor that I'm missing?

[Lawlcat]

You might try Michigan: they are generally pretty okay with high LSAT/low GPA splitters. Unfortunately, I think 3.02 might be taking it a bit too low. Still, you could try arguing for those other classes being outside your major, and maybe pitch yourself based upon an in-major GPA. If you have an explanation for what happened with those courses, that might help.

This is one reason why I think USNWR is horribly destructive: GPA is hard to compare and may not say much about a candidate's qualifications. More to the point, perhaps, even if a school would like to accept that person, they have to take a USNWR hit to do so. I appreciate that Michigan is willing to take those hits, but its capacity to do so is limited. It strikes me as bizarre to have a holistic review process that is forced into these rigid quantitative constraints.

I feel compelled to add: although this seriously sucks, I would urge you not to attend law school if you can't make it into a T14 school. (Unless you can get a massive scholarship somewhere else.) You might consider grabbing a full-ride somewhere, perhaps even on a part-time program (?), and keep going on with your life while getting your degree debt-free.

T14 is not a ticket to BigLaw monies and rewarding public service thereafter; it is not even a "guaranteed barring uncommon stupidity". Especially ITE, you can blow it all with some small mistakes at the wrong times.

[blurbz]

I don't generally get annoyed and I REALLY don't generally post when I am, but this kind of thread always strikes me as kind of ridiculous.

Why are you mad? YOU failed/got a D/didn't do well in a class and now you have to face the consequences of it. Oh, but you did better the second time? Of course you did! That's the point: You've seen the material once (even if you, for whatever reason, didn't pay much attention to it...), you really ought to do better the second time.

I'm sure lots of you will say that you had "good reasons" or "extenuating circumstances" for failing a class. There are plenty of people out there who had "good reasons" too and still managed decent grades. Just write an addendum, own the GPA you EARNED, and move on.

There is nothing unfair about the way LSAC calculates GPA.

Edit: OP this rant is not directed at you. Your LSAT (if you score in that range) will still get you into a lot of very good schools, likely with a lot of money. Good luck!

[Nonok]

Why are you mad?

I'm not mad at the LSAC really. It sucks that they calculate it that way... but they can do whatever they want. I'm more mad at myself for letting it happen. I wasn't mad before because I didn't think it would ever reflect on me. I don't have a good reason for what happened, I was just lazy.

I feel compelled to add: although this seriously sucks, I would urge you not to attend law school if you can't make it into a T14 school.

Why's that? No good jobs unless you're T14?

Also, what does USNWR and ED mean?

[09042014]

Michigan, UVA, Northwestern, and Georgetown are your best bets. Cornell, Duke and Penn are long shots. Forget HYSCCN, and UC-B.

[Lawlcat]

I don't generally get annoyed and I REALLY don't generally post when I am, but this kind of thread always strikes me as kind of ridiculous.

Why are you mad? YOU failed/got a D/didn't do well in a class and now you have to face the consequences of it.
(...)
I'm sure lots of you will say that you had "good reasons" or "extenuating circumstances" for failing a class. There are plenty of people out there who had "good reasons" too and still managed decent grades. Just write an addendum, own the GPA you EARNED, and move on.

There is nothing unfair about the way LSAC calculates GPA.

Edit: OP this rant is not directed at you.

I am a huge jerk and an embodiment of the self-inflicted misery and unwarranted shame that plague the legal profession.

(truth added for emphasis)

I feel compelled to add: although this seriously sucks, I would urge you not to attend law school if you can't make it into a T14 school.

Why's that? No good jobs unless you're T14?

This depends somewhat on your financial situation. If you want to make more than ~50K a year, even a T14 is no guarantee, as I commented above. A dumb mistake or two can completely wreck you. Look at schools' employment numbers, look at the actual distribution of salaries, realize it is not a normal distribution, read the legal employment section of this forum, understand.

Also, what does USNWR and ED mean?

USNWR = US News and World Reports
ED = Early Decision

[s0ph1e2007]

ah ok i think they include that. im in a similiar situation i performed very poorly my first semester in college as a bio major receiving a D in a calc class which i promptly took over the following sem., thereby removing it from my gpa but keeping it still on the transcript, for an A. that would really piss me off if that goes on there. its like a jersey ginger orphan on my record.

Yeah. It's going to go on your LSAC GPA. Sorry bro. I'm equally pissed. Going from a 3.32 to a 3.02 is devastating to my applications. I go from having a good change to getting into some of the T14 to maybe having no chance at all.

thats MR

You have to be the single biggest asshole on the face of the planet. Please, for the sake of humanity, do not pass your genetic code on.

[Nonok]

I'm planning to apply for this cycle and see what happens. If I get into some T14 schools that I like when I visit them I'll go there. I'm also applying to some lower schools to see what type of money offers I get.

It's unfortunate that I decided to be lazy during my UG. 3.02 is not a good display of my abilities. If I can't get into any schools I want to go to I'll just wait until next cycle, get some better work experience, and maybe try to better my LSAT score if possible.

When I apply as an ED, if accepted, does that mean that I'm obligated to go to that school? I'm still pretty confused.

[s0ph1e2007]

I'm planning to apply for this cycle and see what happens. If I get into some T14 schools that I like when I visit them I'll go there. I'm also applying to some lower schools to see what type of money offers I get.

It's unfortunate that I decided to be lazy during my UG. 3.02 is not a good display of my abilities. If I can't get into any schools I want to go to I'll just wait until next cycle, get some better work experience, and maybe try to better my LSAT score if possible.

When I apply as an ED, if accepted, does that mean that I'm obligated to go to that school? I'm still pretty confused.

1) write a sick super edited PS. hold on to it for at least two weeks and get it edited by a lot of people
2) yes. if you apply ED and are accepted you MUST attend that law school if you attend any at all

[Nonok]

1) write a sick super edited PS. hold on to it for at least two weeks and get it edited by a lot of people
2) yes. if you apply ED and are accepted you MUST attend that law school if you attend any at all

That's some pressure! I need to start figuring this stuff out NOW then. Yeah, I plan on working really hard on my PS. I'll have a rough draft this weekend.

[blink]

I don't generally get annoyed and I REALLY don't generally post when I am, but this kind of thread always strikes me as kind of ridiculous.

Why are you mad? YOU failed/got a D/didn't do well in a class and now you have to face the consequences of it. Oh, but you did better the second time? Of course you did! That's the point: You've seen the material once (even if you, for whatever reason, didn't pay much attention to it...), you really ought to do better the second time.

I'm sure lots of you will say that you had "good reasons" or "extenuating circumstances" for failing a class. There are plenty of people out there who had "good reasons" too and still managed decent grades. Just write an addendum, own the GPA you EARNED, and move on.

There is nothing unfair about the way LSAC calculates GPA.

Edit: OP this rant is not directed at you. Your LSAT (if you score in that range) will still get you into a lot of very good schools, likely with a lot of money. Good luck!

Other than A+'s. Those are utter bullshit.

[Nonok]

Other than A+'s. Those are utter bullshit.

Agreed. I saw how that used those on the LSAC website... I'm pretty sure my UG institution doesn't even give out A+'s.

[rayiner]

I don't generally get annoyed and I REALLY don't generally post when I am, but this kind of thread always strikes me as kind of ridiculous.

Why are you mad? YOU failed/got a D/didn't do well in a class and now you have to face the consequences of it. Oh, but you did better the second time? Of course you did! That's the point: You've seen the material once (even if you, for whatever reason, didn't pay much attention to it...), you really ought to do better the second time.

I'm sure lots of you will say that you had "good reasons" or "extenuating circumstances" for failing a class. There are plenty of people out there who had "good reasons" too and still managed decent grades. Just write an addendum, own the GPA you EARNED, and move on.

There is nothing unfair about the way LSAC calculates GPA.

Edit: OP this rant is not directed at you. Your LSAT (if you score in that range) will still get you into a lot of very good schools, likely with a lot of money. Good luck!

LOL @ GPAs.

[the_wanksta36]

Well, for the higher ranked schools, like a top 10, you'll be competing with others with an LSAT like yours AND a high GPA. So, if your soft material won't help you to stand out, a school like that might not be an option. If you apply early with lower scores, that can help, or if you do an early binding decision to your top choice. You need to make sure you attach an addendum to explain your GPA and make sure to note your upward trend. Electronic records make it really easy to spot this already, but it never hurts to point out that.

[ak13]

I unfortunately have to admit that I'm in the same boat, low GPA, (should be) high LSAT. I'm wondering how big of a role do softies play? Or things such as undergrad major and experience...say, for example, mechanical engineering (something I know is not as popular among law students)? Do top schools like that?

[s0ph1e2007]

I unfortunately have to admit that I'm in the same boat, low GPA, (should be) high LSAT. I'm wondering how big of a role do softies play? Or things such as undergrad major and experience...say, for example, mechanical engineering (something I know is not as popular among law students)? Do top schools like that?

sometimes. but not even close to as much as they like a high GPA. sorry, man. nice 'tar though.

[beachbum]

Michigan, UVA, Northwestern, and Georgetown are your best bets. Cornell, Duke and Penn are long shots. Forget HYSCCN, and UC-B.

Yeah, all is not lost. Consider yourself lucky that, even after a substantial GPA drop-off, you're still above a 3.0. It'll probably cost you a lot in scholarship money, but your GPA won't exclude you from the T14 (assuming a top LSAT score). So with that said, come back when you get your score.