Attention: Fordham Law Students

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
Bankhead
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby Bankhead » Tue May 12, 2009 11:44 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
nitsudrx wrote:Well, I called Career Services and the rep said "Unfortunately, we don't answer admitted students questions." Is this normal, or Brooklyn-esque?


Are you serious? I thought the November rule did not apply until matriculation. I don't think this is necessarily a Brooklyn-style dodge, but I'm not thrilled about it either.


100% serious.

lawguy123
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby lawguy123 » Tue May 12, 2009 11:48 am

nitsudrx wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
nitsudrx wrote:Well, I called Career Services and the rep said "Unfortunately, we don't answer admitted students questions." Is this normal, or Brooklyn-esque?


Are you serious? I thought the November rule did not apply until matriculation. I don't think this is necessarily a Brooklyn-style dodge, but I'm not thrilled about it either.


100% serious.


Sweet career services office.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 11:51 am

How did they react, though? Did you get the feeling that they were forbidden to answer questions, but felt badly about it? If the person on the phone was not rude or condescending, this might not be a horrible situation, although I concede that it is far from ideal. Has anyone tried this at other schools? I just want to know if this policy is Fordham specific.

Bankhead
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby Bankhead » Tue May 12, 2009 11:54 am

lawguy123 wrote:
nitsudrx wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
nitsudrx wrote:Well, I called Career Services and the rep said "Unfortunately, we don't answer admitted students questions." Is this normal, or Brooklyn-esque?


Are you serious? I thought the November rule did not apply until matriculation. I don't think this is necessarily a Brooklyn-style dodge, but I'm not thrilled about it either.


100% serious.


Sweet career services office.


.
Last edited by Bankhead on Tue May 12, 2009 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bankhead
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby Bankhead » Tue May 12, 2009 11:54 am

OperaSoprano wrote:How did they react, though? Did you get the feeling that they were forbidden to answer questions, but felt badly about it? If the person on the phone was not rude or condescending, this might not be a horrible situation, although I concede that it is far from ideal. Has anyone tried this at other schools? I just want to know if this policy is Fordham specific.


They were polite and directed me to the information on the website. I got the feeling that it was the policy not to answer any questions from students who haven't matriculated yet. Though I think this might be a new policy (makes me wonder why they would enact a new policy like that now). I called a few months ago and was told I could set up an appointment. I never got around to it until now.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 12:14 pm

d-bag wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
D-bag, I am unsurprised to hear that Fordham is looking to expand placement. It always surprised me that so few Fordham grads venture further afield. I had assumed self selection played a role, since Fordham obviously attracts students who love New York. I am one of them, by the way. I come by my infatuation honestly. Fordham was my first choice, and I took my waitlist to heart, because I knew I would have to leave the city I had grown to love so much (I was on hold at Cardozo too.) Two weeks ago, Cardozo admitted me with a very nice scholarship, and four days later, I got into Fordham, after 99 days on the waitlist.


You probably made the right choice given how Cardozo handles scholarship students--all of them go into the same section, thus becoming the "hard" section, and obviously given the requirements on the scholarships, the majority won't end up keeping theirs for next year. They're rough, although it's clear that Cardozo is a school that's going places.

Knowing my story, I hope you will forgive my passionate outburst. This acceptance meant the world to me. The day after I got in, I went up to the school to pay my seat deposit, and had a 45 minute conversation with Dean Brown in the admissions office. We talked about many things, but I got the sense that Fordham was definitely making a push for greater national recognition, and I was very happy to hear it. My family is in the Bay Area, and if I ever leave New York, this is likely where I will go. Dean Brown told me about active alumni in San Francisco and Palo Alto. In your opinion, is the school becoming more national? Do you see this as a feasible goal, especially if NYC is in for a slower recovery than hoped for?


I'm no expert on this, but I think it's a feasible goal in the long-term. One of Fordham's draws is for people who are out of state but want to practice in NY. Chances are that many of them aren't willing to remain in NY, especially after they burn out on BIGLAW, as many of them do. Anecdotally speaking, most of the Fordham alumni that I have met in the NY area, have originally been from the tri-state area.

Has the school been helpful to you in pursuing your non-biglaw career goals? You mentioned that you loved PIRC, and I hope I'll also spend a lot of time there. You also said you disliked many of the other students. Do you feel the competition changes people's personalities? This is the one aspect of law school I am not looking forward to. (Before I got into Fordham and Cardozo, I was all set to pay my seat deposit at Northeastern, if that tells you anything.) I want to bond with my classmates, not live in fear of them.


They're definitely helpful, but we still really have to self-initiate public interest job search if we want it, as opposed to those who seek BIGLAW. The only governmental employee I saw on the OCI list was NYC Law Department, and I don't even know how they snuck in. During Spring OCI, I believe we had US Attorney's Office and Army JAG interviewing 1Ls. I feel that competition definitely changes people's personalities, and you really often get to see the worst of people. The social life at Fordham is lacking, albeit there is some, as a result. On the other hand, the public interest driven folk are usually the nicest. I can't say anything bad about any Stein Scholar that I've met.

In your first post, you advised 0Ls to retake and go to NYU. I was a bit taken aback by your lack of enthusiasm for Fordham. Obviously anyone who can get into a T14 should go, but I had always thought Fordham was unique in the T30 because of the options it offered. When I got in, I called off my planned retake, even though it seemed likely that I would break 170 and have higher ranked options. I was happy, and grateful to have Fordham. I hope I made the right decision; I think another round of applications would have killed me. Given my GPA, Cornell would probably be my ceiling anyway.


You've already made your decision, there's no reason to second-guess it, just know what you're in for. I think those who are in still in position to retake, should, and in the alternative, just wait out the year. We're in uncertain times right now and it's a better idea to get a handle on things before deciding to make a $150k+ investment.

I do want you to know that the people in this year's incoming class are amazing. I've gotten to know many of my fellow PT classmates-to-be, and all are friendly, helpful, and awesome people. Fordham will be in good hands when this class matriculates. I hope the school will take care of us as well.


I find that people in PT are usually a bit different when compared to the FT gunners. You should try to find a part-time internship while in your PT year to ensure that you're getting experience and don't look bad to employers. From what I gather, doing PT without an employment reason raises eyebrows. You'll probably be hard pressed to find something of a truly legal nature, but I think places like the Innocence Project often need all the hands they can get on deck.


Thank you for answering me. I was specifically curious about how non-biglaw hiring is handled. I hope to have grades that will speak for me, since I hate hustling. I know I will need them anyway, since I don't have a degree from an Ivy (or similar) on my resume. I think my employment expectations are reasonable; I know that if I take a non-profit job, I will almost certainly start out below $50k. Fortunately, I think I should be good for that LRAP...

Until very recently, I was working full time. I quit my job (with very strong justification), and I will be looking for volunteer/internship opportunities for the summer, and likely into the Fall. I have heard, though, that the top part time students do not work. There is one more thing I wondered about the evening program; is there any way to take additional classes prior to the summer? I had given some thought to studying or interning abroad my 1L summer, but this would be a bit of a challenge if I had two classes to complete in New York. I am otherwise very happy to be in the evening program, since I took most of my classes at night in undergrad, by choice.

I appreciate your honesty and advice. I was out of line yesterday. That was the first and last time you will ever see me be snarky on TLS.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 12:18 pm

nitsudrx wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:How did they react, though? Did you get the feeling that they were forbidden to answer questions, but felt badly about it? If the person on the phone was not rude or condescending, this might not be a horrible situation, although I concede that it is far from ideal. Has anyone tried this at other schools? I just want to know if this policy is Fordham specific.


They were polite and directed me to the information on the website. I got the feeling that it was the policy not to answer any questions from students who haven't matriculated yet. Though I think this might be a new policy (makes me wonder why they would enact a new policy like that now). I called a few months ago and was told I could set up an appointment. I never got around to it until now.


That is frustrating. I am sure this year's numbers are much lower than last year's, but with the economy in the toilet, that doesn't seem like it would be such a surprise. I don't think any school in the country is unaffected, even HYS. I will be very curious to hear what geo is able to find out.

BTW, thanks so much for taking the time to call and give us all a heads up!

d-bag
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby d-bag » Tue May 12, 2009 12:23 pm

nitsudrx wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:How did they react, though? Did you get the feeling that they were forbidden to answer questions, but felt badly about it? If the person on the phone was not rude or condescending, this might not be a horrible situation, although I concede that it is far from ideal. Has anyone tried this at other schools? I just want to know if this policy is Fordham specific.


They were polite and directed me to the information on the website. I got the feeling that it was the policy not to answer any questions from students who haven't matriculated yet. Though I think this might be a new policy (makes me wonder why they would enact a new policy like that now). I called a few months ago and was told I could set up an appointment. I never got around to it until now.


Yeah, this is policy. Right now they're pretty busy preparing for OCI and, frankly, there's no reason for them to be speaking to you now. Under ABA rules you won't be able to apply for work until (I think) November 15th?

OperaSoprano wrote:Thank you for answering me. I was specifically curious about how non-biglaw hiring is handled. I hope to have grades that will speak for me, since I hate hustling. I know I will need them anyway, since I don't have a degree from an Ivy (or similar) on my resume. I think my employment expectations are reasonable; I know that if I take a non-profit job, I will almost certainly start out below $50k. Fortunately, I think I should be good for that LRAP...


For most positions, your undergrad really does not matter at this stage. Ivy students have to hustle just as much as you will. For PI, you'll have two opportunities to explore the field in a more formal manner: Equal Justice Works in DC and Public Interest Fair at NYU. Equal Justice Works is before the ABA cutoff, so they really don't care for 1Ls--the school, however, will give you money to travel and hotel room (if you split with another student, otherwise you pay half), and you'll get opportunity to talk to many of the governmental employers, just not to interview. The career fair is where you will get your internship for next summer, most likely. Hiring is done in a very similar manner to OCI: you have a limited amount of bids, you submit them to employers you're interested in, they set up a schedule.

OperaSoprano wrote:Until very recently, I was working full time. I quit my job (with very strong justification), and I will be looking for volunteer/internship opportunities for the summer, and likely into the Fall. I have heard, though, that the top part time students do not work. There is one more thing I wondered about the evening program; is there any way to take additional classes prior to the summer? I had given some thought to studying or interning abroad my 1L summer, but this would be a bit of a challenge if I had two classes to complete in New York. I am otherwise very happy to be in the evening program, since I took most of my classes at night in undergrad, by choice.


Top part time students definitely do not work, and as a result, they have an edge on the other students. On the other hand, don't you think that employers realize by looking at the transcript that a top PT student just gunned in the library for the entire day? If you do a part-time internship, say 20 hours, you'll have plenty of time to work and to study, and you can do just as well as any gunner. I don't know anything about taking classes *prior* to the summer, but I doubt it. If you have the money to go abroad next summer, you'll get the credits you need. On the other hand, if you just get an internship, then you'll only get 3 credits (externship) which will not be enough. Your best bet is to stay in NY, take a full-time internship (unpaid) for externship credit + Stein or FSSF funding, and take one night class. For all intents and purposes, that will probably be enough, but I don't know if there are some specific PT requirements that may come into play.

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crabbycakes
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby crabbycakes » Tue May 12, 2009 12:26 pm

Here's what the career services office replied to me when I emailed them some questions (the same email was answered by Emory with a really nice personal phone call with the answers to all my questions). I REALLY doubt that they would be unable to answer general questions under ABA rules... I mean, they talk extensively at ASD about placement, options, how finding a job works, etc. The idea that they can't answer those questions between ASD and November makes no sense.

Anyway:

"crabbycakes,

Unfortunately, our policies prohibit us from answering any of your specific questions until you are a student. The best I can do is direct you to our website, specifically the section for prospective students.

http://law.fordham.edu/ihtml/cp-2JDProS ... tml?id=100

Thank you,

Jon Daries"

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sentinal5656
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby sentinal5656 » Tue May 12, 2009 12:38 pm

D-Bag,

Can you talk about how students interested in IP law (patents) fare at fordham? Are they screwed as well in terms of biglaw prospects?

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 12:39 pm

crabbycakes wrote:Here's what the career services office replied to me when I emailed them some questions (the same email was answered by Emory with a really nice personal phone call with the answers to all my questions). I REALLY doubt that they would be unable to answer general questions under ABA rules... I mean, they talk extensively at ASD about placement, options, how finding a job works, etc. The idea that they can't answer those questions between ASD and November makes no sense.

Anyway:

"crabbycakes,

Unfortunately, our policies prohibit us from answering any of your specific questions until you are a student. The best I can do is direct you to our website, specifically the section for prospective students.

http://law.fordham.edu/ihtml/cp-2JDProS ... tml?id=100

Thank you,

Jon Daries"


Out of curiosity, was the news bad at Emory? I know the school places in New York as well, so I am sure there must be some fallout. I really wish Fordham could tell us more. I am horrible and want to know every last thing about the school!

d-bag
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby d-bag » Tue May 12, 2009 12:44 pm

sentinal5656 wrote:D-Bag,

Can you talk about how students interested in IP law (patents) fare at fordham? Are they screwed as well in terms of biglaw prospects?


No idea, sorry. The OCI list specifically has a few firms looking for patent-oriented students, and require technical UG degrees to apply, but I honestly don't know how that relates to the previous years since it's really not something I've paid attention to.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 12:49 pm

d-bag wrote:
nitsudrx wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:How did they react, though? Did you get the feeling that they were forbidden to answer questions, but felt badly about it? If the person on the phone was not rude or condescending, this might not be a horrible situation, although I concede that it is far from ideal. Has anyone tried this at other schools? I just want to know if this policy is Fordham specific.


They were polite and directed me to the information on the website. I got the feeling that it was the policy not to answer any questions from students who haven't matriculated yet. Though I think this might be a new policy (makes me wonder why they would enact a new policy like that now). I called a few months ago and was told I could set up an appointment. I never got around to it until now.


Yeah, this is policy. Right now they're pretty busy preparing for OCI and, frankly, there's no reason for them to be speaking to you now. Under ABA rules you won't be able to apply for work until (I think) November 15th?

OperaSoprano wrote:Thank you for answering me. I was specifically curious about how non-biglaw hiring is handled. I hope to have grades that will speak for me, since I hate hustling. I know I will need them anyway, since I don't have a degree from an Ivy (or similar) on my resume. I think my employment expectations are reasonable; I know that if I take a non-profit job, I will almost certainly start out below $50k. Fortunately, I think I should be good for that LRAP...


For most positions, your undergrad really does not matter at this stage. Ivy students have to hustle just as much as you will. For PI, you'll have two opportunities to explore the field in a more formal manner: Equal Justice Works in DC and Public Interest Fair at NYU. Equal Justice Works is before the ABA cutoff, so they really don't care for 1Ls--the school, however, will give you money to travel and hotel room (if you split with another student, otherwise you pay half), and you'll get opportunity to talk to many of the governmental employers, just not to interview. The career fair is where you will get your internship for next summer, most likely. Hiring is done in a very similar manner to OCI: you have a limited amount of bids, you submit them to employers you're interested in, they set up a schedule.

OperaSoprano wrote:Until very recently, I was working full time. I quit my job (with very strong justification), and I will be looking for volunteer/internship opportunities for the summer, and likely into the Fall. I have heard, though, that the top part time students do not work. There is one more thing I wondered about the evening program; is there any way to take additional classes prior to the summer? I had given some thought to studying or interning abroad my 1L summer, but this would be a bit of a challenge if I had two classes to complete in New York. I am otherwise very happy to be in the evening program, since I took most of my classes at night in undergrad, by choice.


Top part time students definitely do not work, and as a result, they have an edge on the other students. On the other hand, don't you think that employers realize by looking at the transcript that a top PT student just gunned in the library for the entire day? If you do a part-time internship, say 20 hours, you'll have plenty of time to work and to study, and you can do just as well as any gunner. I don't know anything about taking classes *prior* to the summer, but I doubt it. If you have the money to go abroad next summer, you'll get the credits you need. On the other hand, if you just get an internship, then you'll only get 3 credits (externship) which will not be enough. Your best bet is to stay in NY, take a full-time internship (unpaid) for externship credit + Stein or FSSF funding, and take one night class. For all intents and purposes, that will probably be enough, but I don't know if there are some specific PT requirements that may come into play.


D-bag, thank you again for your assistance. I am sure I will think of more questions before too much time passes. I'm also glad to hear that part time students are less likely to be obnoxious jerks. I like the 20 hour a week internship idea... I'm going to get on that!

I will attempt to avoid gunner-hood at all costs, though I can't promise I won't live in the library. The reason I asked about undergrad, however, is that I graduated from FIT. My major is listed in my profile. I do wonder what employers will make of me, but if I have decent grades, hopefully the answer won't be too depressing.

d-bag
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby d-bag » Tue May 12, 2009 12:55 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
d-bag wrote:
nitsudrx wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:How did they react, though? Did you get the feeling that they were forbidden to answer questions, but felt badly about it? If the person on the phone was not rude or condescending, this might not be a horrible situation, although I concede that it is far from ideal. Has anyone tried this at other schools? I just want to know if this policy is Fordham specific.


They were polite and directed me to the information on the website. I got the feeling that it was the policy not to answer any questions from students who haven't matriculated yet. Though I think this might be a new policy (makes me wonder why they would enact a new policy like that now). I called a few months ago and was told I could set up an appointment. I never got around to it until now.


Yeah, this is policy. Right now they're pretty busy preparing for OCI and, frankly, there's no reason for them to be speaking to you now. Under ABA rules you won't be able to apply for work until (I think) November 15th?

OperaSoprano wrote:Thank you for answering me. I was specifically curious about how non-biglaw hiring is handled. I hope to have grades that will speak for me, since I hate hustling. I know I will need them anyway, since I don't have a degree from an Ivy (or similar) on my resume. I think my employment expectations are reasonable; I know that if I take a non-profit job, I will almost certainly start out below $50k. Fortunately, I think I should be good for that LRAP...


For most positions, your undergrad really does not matter at this stage. Ivy students have to hustle just as much as you will. For PI, you'll have two opportunities to explore the field in a more formal manner: Equal Justice Works in DC and Public Interest Fair at NYU. Equal Justice Works is before the ABA cutoff, so they really don't care for 1Ls--the school, however, will give you money to travel and hotel room (if you split with another student, otherwise you pay half), and you'll get opportunity to talk to many of the governmental employers, just not to interview. The career fair is where you will get your internship for next summer, most likely. Hiring is done in a very similar manner to OCI: you have a limited amount of bids, you submit them to employers you're interested in, they set up a schedule.

OperaSoprano wrote:Until very recently, I was working full time. I quit my job (with very strong justification), and I will be looking for volunteer/internship opportunities for the summer, and likely into the Fall. I have heard, though, that the top part time students do not work. There is one more thing I wondered about the evening program; is there any way to take additional classes prior to the summer? I had given some thought to studying or interning abroad my 1L summer, but this would be a bit of a challenge if I had two classes to complete in New York. I am otherwise very happy to be in the evening program, since I took most of my classes at night in undergrad, by choice.


Top part time students definitely do not work, and as a result, they have an edge on the other students. On the other hand, don't you think that employers realize by looking at the transcript that a top PT student just gunned in the library for the entire day? If you do a part-time internship, say 20 hours, you'll have plenty of time to work and to study, and you can do just as well as any gunner. I don't know anything about taking classes *prior* to the summer, but I doubt it. If you have the money to go abroad next summer, you'll get the credits you need. On the other hand, if you just get an internship, then you'll only get 3 credits (externship) which will not be enough. Your best bet is to stay in NY, take a full-time internship (unpaid) for externship credit + Stein or FSSF funding, and take one night class. For all intents and purposes, that will probably be enough, but I don't know if there are some specific PT requirements that may come into play.


D-bag, thank you again for your assistance. I am sure I will think of more questions before too much time passes. I'm also glad to hear that part time students are less likely to be obnoxious jerks. I like the 20 hour a week internship idea... I'm going to get on that!

I will attempt to avoid gunner-hood at all costs, though I can't promise I won't live in the library. The reason I asked about undergrad, however, is that I graduated from FIT. My major is listed in my profile. I do wonder what employers will make of me, but if I have decent grades, hopefully the answer won't be too depressing.


I doubt it'll mean anything, and it'll probably make for a fun interview topic. You can twist the FIT thing into an interest in IP law for interview purposes. We have a professor teaching Fashion Law, who's probably one of the most girly and fashion conscious professors I've known yet, and... well, she's a law school professor, so clearly the fashion thing worked out for her after all. She's quite brilliant, very nice, and very approachable. You might want to try getting a research assistantship with her instead of doing this 20-hour internship thing as well; RA's get paid something like $9 an hour too, so you'll get some coffee money in the process.

http://law.fordham.edu/ihtml/fac-2bioPP ... 7&bid=1189

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crabbycakes
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby crabbycakes » Tue May 12, 2009 1:15 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
crabbycakes wrote:Here's what the career services office replied to me when I emailed them some questions (the same email was answered by Emory with a really nice personal phone call with the answers to all my questions). I REALLY doubt that they would be unable to answer general questions under ABA rules... I mean, they talk extensively at ASD about placement, options, how finding a job works, etc. The idea that they can't answer those questions between ASD and November makes no sense.

Anyway:

"crabbycakes,

Unfortunately, our policies prohibit us from answering any of your specific questions until you are a student. The best I can do is direct you to our website, specifically the section for prospective students.

http://law.fordham.edu/ihtml/cp-2JDProS ... tml?id=100

Thank you,

Jon Daries"


Out of curiosity, was the news bad at Emory? I know the school places in New York as well, so I am sure there must be some fallout. I really wish Fordham could tell us more. I am horrible and want to know every last thing about the school!



The person I spoke with at Emory seemed to echo the sentiment expressed by lots of TLSers: that if you're in the top 1/3 at Emory, you'll have some pretty decent mobility, including in regions like New York and DC. Their support for finding jobs in other markets like Chicago and California seemed weak at best. Of course, if you want to work in Atlanta or the South in general, Emory is an excellent choice and the majority of Emory grads end up there. I, not being from the South (or wanting to be), am scared by this.

I am double-deposited at Emory and Fordham. I am hoping that Fordham, with its connections to lots of firms that are not just NYC-only, but national with NYC offices, combined with what seems like a desire to help kids find jobs elsewhere, will be better in the mobility department. But, alas, I have no one to talk to.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 1:23 pm

d-bag wrote:I doubt it'll mean anything, and it'll probably make for a fun interview topic. You can twist the FIT thing into an interest in IP law for interview purposes. We have a professor teaching Fashion Law, who's probably one of the most girly and fashion conscious professors I've known yet, and... well, she's a law school professor, so clearly the fashion thing worked out for her after all. She's quite brilliant, very nice, and very approachable. You might want to try getting a research assistantship with her instead of doing this 20-hour internship thing as well; RA's get paid something like $9 an hour too, so you'll get some coffee money in the process.

http://law.fordham.edu/ihtml/fac-2bioPP ... 7&bid=1189


Oh wow, seriously, wow. I hope she is still visiting this Fall! I would love to be her RA, paid or not. Again, I was unaware that this was an option for 1Ls. I wonder if I should email her. Thanks for passing this along, as I hadn't even begun the process of checking out the faculty... next on my list!

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 1:27 pm

crabbycakes wrote:The person I spoke with at Emory seemed to echo the sentiment expressed by lots of TLSers: that if you're in the top 1/3 at Emory, you'll have some pretty decent mobility, including in regions like New York and DC. Their support for finding jobs in other markets like Chicago and California seemed weak at best. Of course, if you want to work in Atlanta or the South in general, Emory is an excellent choice and the majority of Emory grads end up there. I, not being from the South (or wanting to be), am scared by this.

I am double-deposited at Emory and Fordham. I am hoping that Fordham, with its connections to lots of firms that are not just NYC-only, but national with NYC offices, combined with what seems like a desire to help kids find jobs elsewhere, will be better in the mobility department. But, alas, I have no one to talk to.


Crabby, me too! I lived in the South for two years. It is a lovely place, but I don't want to settle there. Emory is a great school, though. Geoanthem transferred there for undergrad and seemed to love it.

I also hope Fordham will become more national in the next few years. I don't really expect the school to get me a job in CA, but it is nice to know there are some alumni floating around, in case I ever want to return. I still feel that Fordham would be a better choice for someone who is reasonably certain they want to work in the Northeast.

I did not double deposit. Hastings was the only other real contender for me, and I never made it off the waitlist.

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sentinal5656
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby sentinal5656 » Tue May 12, 2009 1:58 pm

D-bag, you claim fordham is down in terms of employment, but is this cause its in ny and the NY legal market is crippled? or are you saying all schools ranked similarly to fordham are experiencing the same problem b.c of a general decline in economy?

d-bag
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby d-bag » Tue May 12, 2009 8:06 pm

sentinal5656 wrote:D-bag, you claim fordham is down in terms of employment, but is this cause its in ny and the NY legal market is crippled? or are you saying all schools ranked similarly to fordham are experiencing the same problem b.c of a general decline in economy?


I'm in no position to discuss other schools, but for Fordham, the NY market is a problem.

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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby rooyim » Wed May 13, 2009 3:03 pm

For people who are interested in attending Fordham with plans for biglaw, what do you think of the guy (HLS2000) who said this:

"I am asking all sorts of people to get different perspectives. I actually know partners involved in hiring at Skadden and Cleary. So I have asked them similar questions. Both are VERY concerned about where the legal profession is going in terms of profitability and growth. They have never seen law firms go through the kinds of layoffs that have happened the last few months and their firms are struggling with predicting demand for the next several years. They both believe, as many people have said, that SLS grads will do quite well in New York assuming there are jobs to be had at all. But right now not many associates are leaving and business is very slow. So hiring will probably be severely restricted for the next few years. I get the bottomline sense from these partners that people from top law schools will still get jobs but since all firms will be much more selective, new graduates will end up working at less prestigious places than they might have before. I do think that grads of places like Fordham will get killed in this new legal economy though. The hiring partners told me that as well, citing Fordham in particular. They said that if they can fill their entering law firm classes with all Harvard, Stanford, and Columbia grads, they see no reason to hire from Fordham in all but the rarest of cases."

in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69025&hilit=HLS2000

I just found it today...and this combined with D-bag's running commentary makes me more than a bit worried. I still have insane <3 <3 <3 for Fordham, but both D-bag and HLS2000 sound credible (from what I've read so far) and they are essentially saying the same thing.

THOUGHTS?

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Wed May 13, 2009 3:14 pm

rooyim wrote:For people who are interested in attending Fordham with plans for biglaw, what do you think of the guy (HLS2000) who said this:

"I am asking all sorts of people to get different perspectives. I actually know partners involved in hiring at Skadden and Cleary. So I have asked them similar questions. Both are VERY concerned about where the legal profession is going in terms of profitability and growth. They have never seen law firms go through the kinds of layoffs that have happened the last few months and their firms are struggling with predicting demand for the next several years. They both believe, as many people have said, that SLS grads will do quite well in New York assuming there are jobs to be had at all. But right now not many associates are leaving and business is very slow. So hiring will probably be severely restricted for the next few years. I get the bottomline sense from these partners that people from top law schools will still get jobs but since all firms will be much more selective, new graduates will end up working at less prestigious places than they might have before. I do think that grads of places like Fordham will get killed in this new legal economy though. The hiring partners told me that as well, citing Fordham in particular. They said that if they can fill their entering law firm classes with all Harvard, Stanford, and Columbia grads, they see no reason to hire from Fordham in all but the rarest of cases."


Yale, Harvard, Cornell, Columbia, NYU, UPENN, UVA, Georgetown.

I'd like to know the average class size for those schools. Call that n. If (2/3)8n is more than .5X (x being the normal amount of first year associates that were hired at all NLJ250 firms in NYC in a typical non-recession year), than I guess there's good reason to worry. Totally arbitrary selection of numbers and formula here lol but i figure i'd try to come up with something reasonable (that can be argued over).

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Wed May 13, 2009 3:30 pm

^^^ actually, not completely arbitrary. I think the 2/3 multiplier is actually pretty generous. .5N figure is debatable, of course. as is most everything on this board lol

jrock12
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby jrock12 » Wed May 13, 2009 3:52 pm

rooyim wrote:For people who are interested in attending Fordham with plans for biglaw, what do you think of the guy (HLS2000) who said this:

"I am asking all sorts of people to get different perspectives. I actually know partners involved in hiring at Skadden and Cleary. So I have asked them similar questions. Both are VERY concerned about where the legal profession is going in terms of profitability and growth. They have never seen law firms go through the kinds of layoffs that have happened the last few months and their firms are struggling with predicting demand for the next several years. They both believe, as many people have said, that SLS grads will do quite well in New York assuming there are jobs to be had at all. But right now not many associates are leaving and business is very slow. So hiring will probably be severely restricted for the next few years. I get the bottomline sense from these partners that people from top law schools will still get jobs but since all firms will be much more selective, new graduates will end up working at less prestigious places than they might have before. I do think that grads of places like Fordham will get killed in this new legal economy though. The hiring partners told me that as well, citing Fordham in particular. They said that if they can fill their entering law firm classes with all Harvard, Stanford, and Columbia grads, they see no reason to hire from Fordham in all but the rarest of cases."

in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69025&hilit=HLS2000

I just found it today...and this combined with D-bag's running commentary makes me more than a bit worried. I still have insane <3 <3 <3 for Fordham, but both D-bag and HLS2000 sound credible (from what I've read so far) and they are essentially saying the same thing.

THOUGHTS?


if they prefer grads from the likes of HYS/etc so much more, why havent they just always filled their programs with them? i mean why ever hire a fordham grade over a harvard grad, putting aside extreme cases

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Blindmelon
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby Blindmelon » Wed May 13, 2009 3:54 pm

[/quote]

if they prefer grads from the likes of HYS/etc so much more, why havent they just always filled their programs with them? i mean why ever hire a fordham grade over a harvard grad, putting aside extreme cases[/quote]

This is why the economy is scary... During the boom periods for law, firms were even digging into schools like BLS and 'Dozo. Now that things have bounced the other direction, who knows what will happen. I worry that now that NY is declining that Harvard grads will start snatching up more top posts in Boston.

rooyim
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Re: Attention: Fordham Law Students

Postby rooyim » Wed May 13, 2009 5:04 pm

jrock12 wrote:if they prefer grads from the likes of HYS/etc so much more, why havent they just always filled their programs with them? i mean why ever hire a fordham grade over a harvard grad, putting aside extreme cases


As Blindmelon already mentioned, I think the issue is partly that a law firm's incoming class size varies from year to year. In "boom periods" you need more attorneys, so you have bigger incoming class sizes. Bigger classes mean they open up the class to not only top HYS grads, but also top Fordham, BU, Emory etc grads. A good example of this is Skadden. It's a huge international firm with a healthy presence of T-30 grads, just because numbers-wise, it needs top talent from all across the board. So if a partner from Skadden is warning about significantly smaller class sizes, that's a good reason to pay attention and wonder what that may mean for T 15 - T30 grads who are biglaw bound, especially in New York. I think that while most biglaw firms probably reach deeper into HYS classes, they usually don't take a Harvard grad at the bottom of his class over a Fordham grad in the top 10%. But now that the legal market has slowed, incoming class sizes for each law firm will invariably shrink, so they might be able to fill it with mainly HYS grads. That's pure speculation of course, but what HLS2000 said above is consistent with D-bag's. It's obviously not JUST a Fordham problem either...its peer schools have reason to worry too.

I mean, this isn't enough to throw Fordham out as my top choice obviously, but it all does cause a bit of worry.

I wish Fordham's Career Services would address some of these questions...




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