Catholic University Columbus School of Law Forum

[ckalis]

I have a friend who is there, just finished her 1L, and really enjoyed it. In fact, she begged me to choose it over Maryland. She is at the top of her class, Jewish (and doesn't find the religious thing bothersome), and a real smart girl. She got a good summer job part time interning for a DC superior court judge, and then also works part time for a bar review course, and does research with a professor. She likely had the option to transfer to many higher ranked schools, but chose to stay at catholic for the $$ they give you to entice you to stay (if at top of class) and then the fact that she is happy there, has a smart group of friends, and loves being in DC. I think she is realistic of her job prospects, but there are jobs in DC, Va., and Md. beyond biglaw, and she is comfortable with that. The US Govt also hires catholic alumni. I have heard that the alumni who have "made it" in DC, do their best to bring in the best students from Catholic. You can get a shot coming out of Catholic, and you can make a career coming out.

Hope that serves as something positive for you to consider.

As I hinted at before, I chose U. Maryland over a fairly large scholarship at Catholic. But, I enjoyed my visit to Catholic and thought I would be comfortable going there. I just determined that Maryland would give me the best opportunities to reach my goals.

Good luck.

Thanks for this summary!

[hoffb86]

I have a friend who is there, just finished her 1L, and really enjoyed it. In fact, she begged me to choose it over Maryland. She is at the top of her class, Jewish (and doesn't find the religious thing bothersome), and a real smart girl. She got a good summer job part time interning for a DC superior court judge, and then also works part time for a bar review course, and does research with a professor. She likely had the option to transfer to many higher ranked schools, but chose to stay at catholic for the $$ they give you to entice you to stay (if at top of class) and then the fact that she is happy there, has a smart group of friends, and loves being in DC. I think she is realistic of her job prospects, but there are jobs in DC, Va., and Md. beyond biglaw, and she is comfortable with that. The US Govt also hires catholic alumni. I have heard that the alumni who have "made it" in DC, do their best to bring in the best students from Catholic. You can get a shot coming out of Catholic, and you can make a career coming out.

Hope that serves as something positive for you to consider.

As I hinted at before, I chose U. Maryland over a fairly large scholarship at Catholic. But, I enjoyed my visit to Catholic and thought I would be comfortable going there. I just determined that Maryland would give me the best opportunities to reach my goals.

Good luck.

Thanks for this summary!

No problem. Hope it helps put a different spin on Catholic.

[howardsbest]

I have a friend who is there, just finished her 1L, and really enjoyed it. In fact, she begged me to choose it over Maryland. She is at the top of her class, Jewish (and doesn't find the religious thing bothersome), and a real smart girl. She got a good summer job part time interning for a DC superior court judge, and then also works part time for a bar review course, and does research with a professor. She likely had the option to transfer to many higher ranked schools, but chose to stay at catholic for the $$ they give you to entice you to stay (if at top of class) and then the fact that she is happy there, has a smart group of friends, and loves being in DC. I think she is realistic of her job prospects, but there are jobs in DC, Va., and Md. beyond biglaw, and she is comfortable with that. The US Govt also hires catholic alumni. I have heard that the alumni who have "made it" in DC, do their best to bring in the best students from Catholic. You can get a shot coming out of Catholic, and you can make a career coming out.

Hope that serves as something positive for you to consider.

As I hinted at before, I chose U. Maryland over a fairly large scholarship at Catholic. But, I enjoyed my visit to Catholic and thought I would be comfortable going there. I just determined that Maryland would give me the best opportunities to reach my goals.

Good luck.

Thanks for this summary!

Thank you this was a great post. And thank you Iwannagofish and native all perspectives are important to hear for a law school.

[AverageGuy]

Hoffb86 - Thank you very much! I also thank the posters who shared their concerns or warnings about the school.

I wish more students would be willing to tell us both good and the bad, so we can consider both sides when making final decisions.

[hoffb86]

Hoffb86 - Thank you very much! I also thank the posters who shared their concerns or warnings about the school.

I wish more students would be willing to tell us both good and the bad, so we can consider both sides when making final decisions.

No problem. Again, my post was to play devil's advocate a bit, and I do think that Catholic has many flaws (thus why I turned down the $$ there). That being said, it is what you make of it. Good luck.

[nativedelta]

Just a brief update. After the triumph of getting an invitation to join all 4 legal publications at Catholic, including law review, I received my acceptance to George Mason. I'm transferring--and doing the transfer write-on competition this weekend. At least this one is 10 pages total with a 120-page packet, unlike Catholic's with a 20-page paper and over 500 pages in the packet.

Now the question is what is proper protocol for withdrawing from a University?

[A'nold]

Just a brief update. After the triumph of getting an invitation to join all 4 legal publications at Catholic, including law review, I received my acceptance to George Mason. I'm transferring--and doing the transfer write-on competition this weekend. At least this one is 10 pages total with a 120-page packet, unlike Catholic's with a 20-page paper and over 500 pages in the packet.

Now the question is what is proper protocol for withdrawing from a University?

Congrats on Mason!

[Cara]

Congrats on getting the transfer out.

[bjr9v8]

Back to the OP question...this may or may not be of assistance:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... c#p1784471

[lawlover829]

Tagging this, because I am still considering CUA, although I am quickly nearing eliminating it... pending visit. Curious on anyone's thoughts about the school. I am comparing it to University of Maryland right now.... but still waiting on American too.

+1

[GoodToBeTheKing]

As a CUA undergrad I've heard a few things about the law school. The most important warning I can give anyone about CUA is the administration is the most difficult and least helpful I have ever encountered in my entire life. At times it seems as if the school is actively trying to prevent you from accomplishing whatever it is you are trying to do. I know that this trend also carries over into the graduates schools, since I have heard it from some of my grad. school professors and TAs. Also the school is VERY right wing. The school's speaker policy prevents anyone who has ever voiced a pro-choice opinion from speaking at the school, effectively eliminating an entire political party in DC from ever speaking on campus. If you want to go to CUA I strongly encourage you to speak to current students to see how they feel about censorship at the school.

Interesting. I kind of gather that the administration of the law school is not terribly helpful as I sent out a couple of e-mails trying to get some information on the alumni network and employment statistics. I have yet to hear back. Of the schools I've been admitted to thus far (Catholic, McGeorge, Ave maria, Loyola LA, Loyola Chicago and Southwestern) I've received the least information and communications from Catholic.

I just emailed them yesterday regarding this same issue. I live in California, want to practice in California, but Columbus is on my list of schools to apply to. I asked them their alumni base in California. The admissions office responded to my email in less than a day with very good information. They sent me a link on to the exact place on their website where alumni information is located, along with information on when they will be visiting California, and also information on their own California Law Student Association which helps you prepare for the Bar in California.

So far they have been nothing but helpful! So maybe they're changing...

[ckalis]

Regarding the school's administration:

Disclaimer: I'm not technically a student yet (starting in August). My dealings with the Financial Aid office over the last few weeks have been painless, and even pleasant. They are so quick to respond by email and phone and really made the process easy. Hopefully the rest of the administration catches up with their level of performance.

[nativedelta]

The admissions office and financial aid offices are SPECTACULAR. They are what fooled me into thinking their kind of personal attention and performance was indicative of the law school as a whole. They know that those offices are the ones prospective students interact with most, and they absolutely put good people in there to make a great impression.

Wait until you deal with the academic dean's office or the office of student affairs. The support staff is polite, but the deans are 100% unhelpful in any way. I have known many students myself who have left those offices crying out of sheer frustration.

Do not judge the rest of the law school by its excellent admissions and financial aid offices. It's an easy mistake, and one I certainly lived to regret.

[SeanSatori]

I'll give you my take as just about to start my 2E year, and having taken summer school right after.

The administration at Catholic is what you make of it. If you need something done, you need to be proactive and schedule appointments with the right people to get things done. They aren't going to come looking for you. In a way, that's life. If you need something, you have to be proactive about it. That said, every interaction I've had with the Registrar, Financial Aid, and Student Services has always gone smoothly. Financial Aid, in particular, is exceptionally helpful.

As for the quality of teaching, which the exception of my LSP teacher (Woods - horrible), and Torts (Ogilvy - ok, but not inspiring), every other teacher I've had at Catholic has been incredible. Property, Contracts, Civil Procedure were all taught extremely well, and I feel I have a firm basis in these core subjects. I also have the grades to prove it. Instead of opting for their 1E "write-on" to the journals (where you can only get on the three alternate journals and not on the main law review), I decided to take summer classes....Evidence by Barracato and the weird Social Justice and the Law Class. By far, Barracato stole the show in terms of teaching Evidence. I work at a law firm doing litigation and I feel like I live and breath the subject now. Two days after the final I was giving advice to attorneys I work with, and a week later they had me drafting Motions in Limine over some pretty thorny evidentiary issues. I can write on as a 2E and get onto any of the journals, including the main one. I'm not sweating a hard write on; so what if I have to analyze 500 pages. That's being a lawyer IMO. I had to review 500 pages of case law just to draft one of the motions I just referred to.

As for the Lawyering Skills class, I honestly think it's a joke. I can understand for someone that has no previous experience with legal writing, the class being a basis in which to learn the ropes. But I was a good legal writer and researcher before I even got to Catholic (I had collaborated in research and briefing cases in the Sixth Circuit for a year and a half prior.) So there was a huge clash of ideals; LSP wants formula writing; I want good persuasive writing. I was graded off significantly because I didn't follow the cookie cutter format that LSP tries to get you to do. LSP was my lowest grade, but I'm glad I didn't let them corrupt my writing ability. I can only hope the upper level writing classes allow one to stretch out and exercise style.

As for Career Services and OCI? I've only had limited involvement. I do know that I was pretty suitably impressed with the firms that do OCI on campus. I know Catholic grads at most major firms in town. I also know that a boatload of the mid-level and smaller firms in town are heavily populated with Catholic grads, as well as the federal government. Whatever we "slipped" to in the rankings hasn't made a bit of a difference that I can see in terms of interest. I can't answer for certain, however, much more about career services, because I don't start focusing on that until this coming semester. We haven't had a boatload of notices that firms were canceling OCI like I've seen from other schools, so that is pretty encouraging. If anything, the slip in rankings is due to the recent addition of the evening division stats to the day division stats in the U.S. News report. Almost every other program with a night school dropped as well.

Yes, there are some white shoe firms that skip Catholic over. Their loss IMO. I'm not the type to fret about it, especially because the working environment in a lot of those firms seems pretty dismal if you are paying attention to Vault rankings. Firms I'm interested in come here; they also come to Howard, GW, GT, Mason and AU. There are D.C. Superior Court judges that are alums (and heavily recruit clerks from here) and some notable alums in the D.C. federal district court as well. A decent amount of grads leave for clerkships. Catholic goes way out of their way to ensure your bar passage. And if Career Services was that bad, you'd think our employment rate after graduation would be a lot lower than it is.

I have no doubt that graduating in the top 10 of my class and working the right angles (law review and/or moot court) will get me to where I want to go. And last, with the ridiculous price of this education, I'd be a fool to turn down the scholarship they offered me a the end of my first year to try and transfer elsewhere. I'm looking at the economy and it doesn't look good. Student loan debt is already a ridiculous drain on the incomes of students when they graduate. So I'll take the money, a small amount of loans, pay off the rest with my income from work and I'll be maybe 30k in the hole at graduation. Not 140k + like some other people.

(Oh, sidenote on "liberal" vs. "conservative" - yeah, there are a lot of conservatives in the school, students and faculty. Since I'm uber-liberal, I had some concerns at the beginning that it might be a problem. I've had none. There was absolutely no spin in any of our classes except for one isolated case in property where the professor said we were free to read a case, but she would not be discussing it because of the subject matter (which was against Catholic Church teachings). In the Social Justice and the Law class, we were actually encouraged to talk about our varying beliefs (and the application of these to the law). There was a great deal of perspective in that class and none of it was judged harshly. Lastly, I've made a lot of friends in my class, and some of them are so conservative as to be reactionary. But every last one of them is a decent human being and we just happen to disagree. I've gotten no preaching about my evil ways; nor have I had to be subjected to a tirade on the conservative hot topic of the day.)

[ckalis]

I'll give you my take as just about to start my 2E year, and having taken summer school right after.

The administration at Catholic is what you make of it. If you need something done, you need to be proactive and schedule appointments with the right people to get things done. They aren't going to come looking for you. In a way, that's life. If you need something, you have to be proactive about it. That said, every interaction I've had with the Registrar, Financial Aid, and Student Services has always gone smoothly. Financial Aid, in particular, is exceptionally helpful.

As for the quality of teaching, which the exception of my LSP teacher (Woods - horrible), and Torts (Ogilvy - ok, but not inspiring), every other teacher I've had at Catholic has been incredible. Property, Contracts, Civil Procedure were all taught extremely well, and I feel I have a firm basis in these core subjects. I also have the grades to prove it. Instead of opting for their 1E "write-on" to the journals (where you can only get on the three alternate journals and not on the main law review), I decided to take summer classes....Evidence by Barracato and the weird Social Justice and the Law Class. By far, Barracato stole the show in terms of teaching Evidence. I work at a law firm doing litigation and I feel like I live and breath the subject now. Two days after the final I was giving advice to attorneys I work with, and a week later they had me drafting Motions in Limine over some pretty thorny evidentiary issues. I can write on as a 2E and get onto any of the journals, including the main one. I'm not sweating a hard write on; so what if I have to analyze 500 pages. That's being a lawyer IMO. I had to review 500 pages of case law just to draft one of the motions I just referred to.

As for the Lawyering Skills class, I honestly think it's a joke. I can understand for someone that has no previous experience with legal writing, the class being a basis in which to learn the ropes. But I was a good legal writer and researcher before I even got to Catholic (I had collaborated in research and briefing cases in the Sixth Circuit for a year and a half prior.) So there was a huge clash of ideals; LSP wants formula writing; I want good persuasive writing. I was graded off significantly because I didn't follow the cookie cutter format that LSP tries to get you to do. LSP was my lowest grade, but I'm glad I didn't let them corrupt my writing ability. I can only hope the upper level writing classes allow one to stretch out and exercise style.

As for Career Services and OCI? I've only had limited involvement. I do know that I was pretty suitably impressed with the firms that do OCI on campus. I know Catholic grads at most major firms in town. I also know that a boatload of the mid-level and smaller firms in town are heavily populated with Catholic grads, as well as the federal government. Whatever we "slipped" to in the rankings hasn't made a bit of a difference that I can see in terms of interest. I can't answer for certain, however, much more about career services, because I don't start focusing on that until this coming semester. We haven't had a boatload of notices that firms were canceling OCI like I've seen from other schools, so that is pretty encouraging. If anything, the slip in rankings is due to the recent addition of the evening division stats to the day division stats in the U.S. News report. Almost every other program with a night school dropped as well.

Yes, there are some white shoe firms that skip Catholic over. Their loss IMO. I'm not the type to fret about it, especially because the working environment in a lot of those firms seems pretty dismal if you are paying attention to Vault rankings. Firms I'm interested in come here; they also come to Howard, GW, GT, Mason and AU. There are D.C. Superior Court judges that are alums (and heavily recruit clerks from here) and some notable alums in the D.C. federal district court as well. A decent amount of grads leave for clerkships. Catholic goes way out of their way to ensure your bar passage. And if Career Services was that bad, you'd think our employment rate after graduation would be a lot lower than it is.

I have no doubt that graduating in the top 10 of my class and working the right angles (law review and/or moot court) will get me to where I want to go. And last, with the ridiculous price of this education, I'd be a fool to turn down the scholarship they offered me a the end of my first year to try and transfer elsewhere. I'm looking at the economy and it doesn't look good. Student loan debt is already a ridiculous drain on the incomes of students when they graduate. So I'll take the money, a small amount of loans, pay off the rest with my income from work and I'll be maybe 30k in the hole at graduation. Not 140k + like some other people.

(Oh, sidenote on "liberal" vs. "conservative" - yeah, there are a lot of conservatives in the school, students and faculty. Since I'm uber-liberal, I had some concerns at the beginning that it might be a problem. I've had none. There was absolutely no spin in any of our classes except for one isolated case in property where the professor said we were free to read a case, but she would not be discussing it because of the subject matter (which was against Catholic Church teachings). In the Social Justice and the Law class, we were actually encouraged to talk about our varying beliefs (and the application of these to the law). There was a great deal of perspective in that class and none of it was judged harshly. Lastly, I've made a lot of friends in my class, and some of them are so conservative as to be reactionary. But every last one of them is a decent human being and we just happen to disagree. I've gotten no preaching about my evil ways; nor have I had to be subjected to a tirade on the conservative hot topic of the day.)

SeanSatori, thanks so much for that information-- especially the summary of conservative/ liberal thought. As a liberal myself, it worried me more than a little. Best wishes on your 2nd year. Orientation starts next Wednesday for me

[EastCoaster]

SeanSatori, thanks so much for that information-- especially the summary of conservative/ liberal thought. As a liberal myself, it worried me more than a little. Best wishes on your 2nd year. Orientation starts next Wednesday for me

Best of luck! Any new CUA students, please feel free to message me if you have any last minute questions. It was definitely helpful to be able to talk with 2 and 3 Ls as I started the process, so I am here if you need me.

-Rising 3L

[SeanSatori]

Best of luck! Any new CUA students, please feel free to message me if you have any last minute questions. It was definitely helpful to be able to talk with 2 and 3 Ls as I started the process, so I am here if you need me.

-Rising 3L

Ditto for me, especially if you are aimed at the night program.

[DEPK]

I'm visiting CUA Law tomorrow. I'm on the waitlist. How can I get from the waitlist to an offer of admission? I'm from New York and DC is definately a different kind of city, but I'm fairly confident I can pass the NY Bar once this is over. I'm also at the waitlist at Temple University. How can I persuade the committee to let me in? I applied for the night program.

[wdd440]

i think the best way is to show your continued interest. Express it while you are there, and then write a letter of continued interest after you get back home to thank them for meeting with you and to say why you want to attend. I would also try calling afterward to check the status of your file.

i think catholic is a great school, and the students that attend tend to be very collegial and willing to help. ... very much of a team mentality - "we are going through this together"