What would C and F do in this situation Forum

[lawschoolsplit2023]

Alright, I have no criminal record not even traffic tickets. Never had any school reprisals k through college grad. However, in 2019 which will be 8-10 years in the past when take bar, given they ask to disclose if you were ever in a work investigation:

In 2019 I had just graduated from college and did a non paid internship. I was caring for sick parents who passed a year later and had health issues myself and because my former internship boss wanted to give me a better promotion than deserved , after internship ended, and wasn’t aware this was discussed, this conjured up rumors of me and my boss being involved which wasn’t true as well as many other lies that spread from the firm to passed on and spread by 250 or more in the community.

A friend heard and without telling me (she is no longer a friend) emailed my former intern boss and said how a lady at the firm was spreading lies she overheard getting her nails done. This lead to boss who was managing attorney to track down the 250 people spreading lies to stop or “there could be reprisals if they don’t”.

I believe in investigation it shows the firm did wrong doing hence 3-5 attorneys spreading lies, but also many spoken to probably told lies on me he wrote down as well.

I can’t think my former boss would ever say anything since wouldn’t want this info released of their wrong doing but if I disclose I was part of a work investigation not about me - I didn’t know was even happening until after the fact , will character and fitness mandate they release the docs and see the statements told about me that were untrue and deem im unfit?

[Access]

Read the prompt carefully, and it you have to disclose write a brief statement that's more clear than what you just wrote.

This doesn't sound bad. If I'm following, there was a workplace investigation based on rumors, that resulted in no wrongdoing being found. I doubt they will even ask for any follow up.

But again, be crisp and to the point. Maybe ask a prof or your DoS to help you draft it.

[lawschoolsplit2023]

Thanks for the reply. So, if I briefly state what occurred, can the bar request from the law firm the content and report of the investigation , even if law firm is reluctant because it may show wrong doing on them for not stopping the workforce gossip until my friend emailed and complained? Hoping bar would t request it since many would have divulged in interviewed the lies on me

[nixy]

Yes, the bar can investigate what happened further. But also... if they do, they'll find out that the firm determined that some people told lies about you. So what? Why would they care? By its nature, that demonstrates that what people said about you wasn't true. So how could that hurt you with the bar?

(It's also not clear to me that the firm not investigating lies before being told about those lies is wrongdoing.)

[lawschoolsplit2023]

Thanks so much….so since I have no criminal record nor traffic and no other issues besides the internship investigation on others spreading lies on me, and since when taking the bar this internship will no longer be in the 10 year window to list as position. Then where it asks have you ever been the subject of investigation of wrong doing of others (given my intern boss never contacted me he was putting out the rumors nor was I ever contacted about this, this was all from friends email to him) if I simply put, my friend told me this might have occurred at an old position, is it unlikely they would find this then, given the requisite listed jobs over 10 years won’t even have this internship covered in it)?

[Access]

OP from your posting history you've apparently asked this question multiple times in multiple ways, and have received good replies already. You also aren't a student yet. I'd recommend you find someone in your life, a professor or family member, maybe a therapist, and talk about this. And maybe sort out your anxiety.

[lawschoolsplit2023]

I respect where you are coming from and thank you for your reply, and as far as anxiety is concerned, feel it would be expected from a young person in their 30s, only child who had been sole caregiver to their parents since 2017, and lost them both same year 3 years later and this drama and lies from people at internship happened same time as losses. I do value your admonition for me to not dwell and fixate on same issue. I do need to seek out a new counselor in nyc, and reason I hadn’t prior is because of fear of reprisals for the bar for mental or emotional health, but seeing the other day the question has been eliminated for mental health on my bar, behooves me speaking to a counselor about my losses I never spoke about with a professional as well as these lingering worries over future career, is a safe avenue to discuss with a nyc professional. And not to beat a dead horse, but could someone please answer the last question I asked before this? Thanks.

[lawschoolsplit2023]

*And left this off my last post set, but I notice for the Illinois bar (option to practice in Chicago if nyc doesn’t pan out) that Illinois c and f doesn’t ask for names and info from non paid internships (mine is question was unpaid) nor does it ask the inquiry where you ever part of an investigation where others engaged in wrong doing (now don’t have to list it did at internship) so perhaps Chicago can be my saving grace if nyc doesn’t work out, so feel better I have options.

[lawschoolsplit2023]

Please answer….so since I have no criminal record nor traffic and no other issues besides the internship investigation on others spreading lies on me, and since when taking the bar this internship will no longer be in the 10 year window to list as position. Then where it asks have you ever been the subject of investigation of wrong doing of others (given my intern boss never contacted me he was putting out the rumors nor was I ever contacted about this, this was all from friends email to him) if I simply put, my friend told me this might have occurred at an old position, is it unlikely they would find this then, given the requisite listed jobs over 10 years won’t even have this internship covered in it?

[nixy]

Respectfully, what are you even talking about? What bar application question asks if you've been "the subject of investigation of wrong doing of others"? That's not a thing. The questions on the bar application have specific meanings and you only need to answer what is asked.

This internship issue is a nothingburger. I get it must have been a distressing experience for you. But the bar is asking about *you* - *your* work experience, any investigations by your employers (or educational institutions or the police) into *your* behavior. From what you've described, the only investigation took place after you left the job, it only entailed your boss looking into who spread rumors about you, and you weren't involved in any way. That's not an investigation into what *you* did; it's an investigation into what other people did. (It might not even really count as an investigation for these purposes.)

But also: you ask

is it unlikely they would find this then

and this is the wrong approach to take to the bar application. Your answers should never turn on whether the bar association is likely/unlikely to find the answer themselves. If information is responsive to a question, you provide it, and you assume that they can investigate further. Your obligation is not to present an unblemished past by hiding things you think would be a problem; it's to be fully honest in response to the questions they ask (but nothing more).

But here that's fine b/c there's no c&f issue. You are approaching this with some inaccurate assumptions about what makes you fit/unfit for legal practice. Which is not unusual, but it's causing you way more anxiety than it's worth. (I'm not even sure that sleeping with your boss is an ethical issue for the employee, because the boss is the person in power, but merely being the subject of rumors that you slept with your boss definitely doesn't make you unfit.)

Anyway I also second Access's post.