Bartending during law school

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ranjg23

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Bartending during law school

Postby ranjg23 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:44 pm

I currently pull in several hundred dollars a night as a bartender near the t-14 law school I will be attending next fall. Do you think I will be doing myself a disservice by continuing to do this one night a week during 1L and possibly more nights during 2L and 3L? Has anyone else been able to work a few hours week(8-12Hrs) and still maintain good grades, and if so, do you have any tips for someone looking to do the same thing?

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby Wipfelder » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:54 pm

ranjg23 wrote:I currently pull in several hundred dollars a night as a bartender near the t-14 law school I will be attending next fall. Do you think I will be doing myself a disservice by continuing to do this one night a week during 1L and possibly more nights during 2L and 3L? Has anyone else been able to work a few hours week(8-12Hrs) and still maintain good grades, and if so, do you have any tips for someone looking to do the same thing?


I think you could do this FRI/SAT night, if you had no other obligations, so you could recover. I probably still wouldn't do it, but I think you can get away with it. It may even help you stay mentally balanced, if its something you enjoy.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:10 pm

I know it seems like a minimal commitment, but I'd really advise against doing this during the first semester (at the very least). You're going to have a lot of time commitments that you aren't foreseeing right now, and the problem with overextending yourself during the first semester is that you don't figure out it happened until your grades come back.

Your first year of grades have a stupid amount of influence on your career trajectory. I'd avoid anything that would adversely impact those grades.

ranjg23

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby ranjg23 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:11 pm

Wipfelder wrote:
ranjg23 wrote:I currently pull in several hundred dollars a night as a bartender near the t-14 law school I will be attending next fall. Do you think I will be doing myself a disservice by continuing to do this one night a week during 1L and possibly more nights during 2L and 3L? Has anyone else been able to work a few hours week(8-12Hrs) and still maintain good grades, and if so, do you have any tips for someone looking to do the same thing?


I think you could do this FRI/SAT night, if you had no other obligations, so you could recover. I probably still wouldn't do it, but I think you can get away with it. It may even help you stay mentally balanced, if its something you enjoy.




It is definitely a very social job and I feel that it will keep me human while studying and going to class 8+ hours most days of the week :? .

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby LSATWiz.com » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:35 pm

I think it’s good. Lawyers you interview with will think it’s cool, and there’s something to be said for socializing during law school. At the end of the day, grades are a necessary condition but not sufficient and legal hiring does not match 1:1 with grades. It’s also not the case that high gpa’s at highly regarded schools who strike out are socially off. Some people require longer spurts for their personality to shine. Being liked after 2 minute conversations goes a long way, and bartending can help with that. I think it is probably worth losing .1 in GPA to keep polishing these skills.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby nixy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:53 pm

I don't think someone is going to lose any social abilities bartending gave them if they stop bartending. That said, I also think bartending one weekend night a week would be totally fine, especially if you can take a break around finals.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby carsondalywashere » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:28 pm

nixy wrote:I don't think someone is going to lose any social abilities bartending gave them if they stop bartending. That said, I also think bartending one weekend night a week would be totally fine, especially if you can take a break around finals.

This

The key is that you will not be able to work most of November and December realistically

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby Bubbles1012 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:37 pm

As long as you can get someone to possibly cover for you the 2-3 weeks you are studying hardcore/in finals you will be fine. If you are good at time management and let’s say spend all day from 7am studying so you can start getting ready for work at 4pm on a Sat, you may not even need to arrange coverage more than once (or maybe not all all). Furthermore, the extra income will be good for your stress levels, as IMO one of the most stressful things about law school is how broke you feel.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby Lolstudent » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:04 pm

I wouldn't recommend keeping this job your first year besides maybe during breaks. It's simply not worth cutting into study time. 1L is a bear...

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby MaxMcMann » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:19 pm

Keep it for sure.

People massively exaggerate how difficult 1L at a T14 is.

I mean maybe it's that much harder at Yale but not here.

There are people who talk about literally doing work nonstop but that hasn't been my experience and I'm solidly above median. I guess if you're gunning for top level performance maybe not but if you just want to do corporate work in NYC like me I can't imagine you'll need every single waking hour, including Friday and Saturday nights, to study. I'm also far from the smartest person here so it's not like I'm getting by on my innate legal genius.

In the past year I've taken up dance, met and had time consuming relationship drama with 3-4 girls, was sick for two weeks at a time on two occasions and started/finished several TV show. I also have a leadership position in a school club and went to the vast majority of recruiting events to network (now those are an epic waste because you're drinking at 7pm on a Tuesday and personally I can't study after I've had even one drink) and school organized lunches/events as well as bar reviews until people stopped attending due to the harsh winter.

I don't see the time constraints being as bad as people say they are and the more I get into law school the more I'm led to believe TLS posters are the most neurotic people in every class.

Also like... girls at law school aren't as entertaining as girls you meet as a bartender.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby Sls17 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:42 pm

I think this is a great idea (limited to one night per week as you propose, and assuming finals time flexibility). It’s so easy to burn out and having some small semblance of a life is key.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby albanach » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:44 pm

MaxMcMann wrote:Keep it for sure.

People massively exaggerate how difficult 1L at a T14 is.


The problem is that most folk have no idea how 1L is going until they have taken their first set of exams and, often, are into second semester before getting results.

You have obviously done well. But, being above median, it should come as no surprise that more than half your class have fared less well. You could, perhaps, have managed 8-12 hours every week of your first semester working behind a bar. Those below median likely couldn't. And none of you could predict where you would land when you started in the fall.

Regardless of the above, working every week will necessarily mean fewer hours to socialize with classmates. These are potential contacts for the rest of your life - I think the time spent with them is valuable in and of itself.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby MaxMcMann » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:26 pm

albanach wrote:
MaxMcMann wrote:Keep it for sure.

People massively exaggerate how difficult 1L at a T14 is.


The problem is that most folk have no idea how 1L is going until they have taken their first set of exams and, often, are into second semester before getting results.

You have obviously done well. But, being above median, it should come as no surprise that more than half your class have fared less well. You could, perhaps, have managed 8-12 hours every week of your first semester working behind a bar. Those below median likely couldn't. And none of you could predict where you would land when you started in the fall.

Regardless of the above, working every week will necessarily mean fewer hours to socialize with classmates. These are potential contacts for the rest of your life - I think the time spent with them is valuable in and of itself.


I mean that second part is true in general but less so for me - my school is a T14 that places overwhelmingly in a region I'm not at all interested in (pretty sure you can figure out which one based on my posts in this thread alone) and overall it does seem like people are working their assess off so people don't hang out as much as in college. Yes, that was a silly expectation for me but I've been doing 60+ hour weeks as a paralegal in NYC so for me the pace of law school is a breath of fresh air on a sunny day.

Full disclosure: I went into finals last term thinking I was sure to fail out and/or have to drop out. But I also didn't study well and did a lot of stuff last minute. That's a personal flaw (and the corollary to all my free time for the activities described). I feel like if you're very organized, you can study 80% of the time, learn everything and then some, and use the other 20% to have a great time. In my case it was more like I studied 20% of the time, procrastinated under the guise of studying another 40%, and spent 40% having a great time which I do not recommend. I'm just a moron so I do things like that unintentionally.

And honestly it seems like out of my section of 60 there are 5 intellectual superstars fighting for Summa with Magna being scraps, 5 people who really shouldn't be here and are probably Lori Loughlin's kids, and the other 50 fighting it out for slightly above/below median.

I will say this - bartending is really fun, a great way to blow off steam and pick up girls and not think about law school. I would say you 100% can find ONE NIGHT A WEEK to do it and likely even two although that would cut into your school social life more.

The one serious disadvantage is that you can't read all your cases for the week over the weekend, which seems like a good strategy. Then again I didn't use it and a friend who did got below median.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby QContinuum » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:23 pm

MaxMcMann wrote:Full disclosure: I went into finals last term thinking I was sure to fail out and/or have to drop out. But I also didn't study well and did a lot of stuff last minute.

It sounds like you have the fortune of being naturally gifted at law school exams. That's a terrific talent to have. Many/most don't have that talent. I would possibly have been the first person to ever fail out of my law school if I studied as little and haphazardly as you say you did.

MaxMcMann wrote:I'm just a moron so I do things like that unintentionally.

I mean, it worked out for you so clearly, in retrospect, there was no need for you to have spent more time studying.

But you didn't know that prior to getting your first semester grades, and no other 0L can predict that either. Since you can't retake 1L (unlike the LSAT), the smart move is to go a bit extra to avoid ending up at the bottom of the barrel. T13s' BigLaw placement power is unparalleled, true, but it's still a bit of a rocky ride at, say, the bottom 10% of the class.

MaxMcMann wrote:And honestly it seems like out of my section of 60 there are 5 intellectual superstars fighting for Summa with Magna being scraps, 5 people who really shouldn't be here and are probably Lori Loughlin's kids, and the other 50 fighting it out for slightly above/below median.

Sounds about right. You were fortunate enough to not need to fight to land above median. Most other students have to work hard to get above median (because the below-median kids work hard too, and are just as intelligent in all likelihood).

I'd also appreciate if we could talk a bit less in future about "picking up girls" or "relationship drama with girls" or whether women in law school are "entertaining." Women in law school are not there for the purpose of "entertaining" their male classmates. We'd like for TLS to be an inclusive, welcoming environment for all genders and sexual orientations. OP could be a woman, or a gay man, or asexual. Certainly readers of this thread aren't all going to be heterosexual men - and not even all heterosexual men are comfortable with "bro culture." There is nothing about bartending (or any other profession) that requires one to be (interested in being) a heterosexual male pickup artist.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby Sls17 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:35 pm

QContinuum wrote:I'd also appreciate if we could talk a bit less in future about "picking up girls" or "relationship drama with girls" or whether women in law school are "entertaining." Women in law school are not there for the purpose of "entertaining" their male classmates. We'd like for TLS to be an inclusive, welcoming environment for all genders and sexual orientations. OP could be a woman, or a gay man, or asexual. Certainly readers of this thread aren't all going to be heterosexual men - and not even all heterosexual men are comfortable with "bro culture." There is nothing about bartending (or any other profession) that requires one to be (interested in being) a heterosexual male pickup artist.


Thanks for saying this.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby MaxMcMann » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:41 pm

There's about a 50/50 chance (45/55?) that OP is a man based on pure statistics. I picked up a male vibe from him. Running his posts through a text gender calculator confirms my intuition.

People are human. I never went to law school intending to become a monk - I went in intending to become a lawyer. The social scene at a school is obviously a consideration and I imagine even more so considering OP is a bartender, a job which implies he's extroverted and therefore would be in the minority in a law school setting.

I gave him the exact advice I'd want someone to give me. Considering half the threads on this forum are dry and unjustified sneering at people, I consider my advice to be far more helpful than most of what I get. You don't need to be a "pickup artist" to be interested in romantic pursuits.

Can you please step in the next time someone is doling out cringy, useless comments about prestige and how doomed you are in response to every question? That's also something that pushes people away from this community and, unlike what I said, serves zero useful purpose.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:48 pm

MaxMcMann wrote:People are human. I never went to law school intending to become a monk - I went in intending to become a lawyer. The social scene at a school is obviously a consideration and I imagine even more so considering OP is a bartender, a job which implies he's extroverted and therefore would be in the minority in a law school setting.


Being an extrovert doesn't immediately imply treating every social interaction as a pick-up opportunity. One of those is just a personality trait. The other is gross and misogynistic.

You also overlooked the possibility that OP might not be straight. Or that the OP might be straight and not a creep.

But way to focus on the important points.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby nixy » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:52 pm

MaxMcMann wrote:There's about a 50/50 chance (45/55?) that OP is a man based on pure statistics. I picked up a male vibe from him. Running his posts through a text gender calculator confirms my intuition.

People are human. I never went to law school intending to become a monk - I went in intending to become a lawyer. The social scene at a school is obviously a consideration and I imagine even more so considering OP is a bartender, a job which implies he's extroverted and therefore would be in the minority in a law school setting.

I gave him the exact advice I'd want someone to give me. Considering half the threads on this forum are dry and unjustified sneering at people, I consider my advice to be far more helpful than most of what I get. You don't need to be a "pickup artist" to be interested in romantic pursuits.

Can you please step in the next time someone is doling out cringy, useless comments about prestige and how doomed you are in response to every question? That's also something that pushes people away from this community and, unlike what I said, serves zero useful purpose.

Holy assumptions Batman.

(The OP’s whole 2 brief posts provide a basis for determining gender? Wow.)

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby MaxMcMann » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:55 pm

Right. Y'all sound super fun at parties. I've given my two cents and stand by it, but I'll end my comments on women.

OP - the people responding to me are going to be a good portion of your class. That's why I'm advising to keep the bartending job to stay sane. That's not a comment on women but on law students as a whole, mods can lmk whether that one crosses some imaginary line as well and I'll get rid of it.

You can PM me in the unlikely event you want to know anything beyond what I've said.

As far as exams go, there is no such thing as "good at taking exams". Contrary to what I've read about exams being arbitrary, every exam I've taken is an excellent reflection of exactly what you learn in the course. If you know the black letter law, you can do well on the exam. Just read The Eight Secrets of Top Exam Performance in Law School if you're confident or do LEEWS if you're not. They're basically the same thing except one is a 50 page pamphlet and LEEWS is hyper in depth and takes days to finish.

If you're bad at writing concisely and in a clear way that addresses all relevant points, that's a much bigger problem than "bad at law school exams". If you're bad at performing under pressure, then that's a huge issue overall given your career choice.

The one exam I did badly on was civil procedure and that was because I did not get the class. I tried and tried but it just went over my head entirely. This was evidenced by the exam review where multi paragraph groups were crossed out. Torts and Contracts, which I aced, were simple. Torts is the easiest of all - each tort is individually defined in a very easy way. Contracts was harder because it's more big picture but I like the subject matter. Crim I got a B+ on because the professor pulled a sneaky and made the entire exam on a small part of what we covered in class - which happened to be a part I didn't get that well. Legal writing was a well deserved B because that class is a slog and I simply put in less work than other people.
Last edited by MaxMcMann on Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:10 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby QContinuum » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:03 pm

MaxMcMann wrote:There's about a 50/50 chance (45/55?) that OP is a man based on pure statistics. I picked up a male vibe from him. Running his posts through a text gender calculator confirms my intuition.

People are human. I never went to law school intending to become a monk - I went in intending to become a lawyer. The social scene at a school is obviously a consideration and I imagine even more so considering OP is a bartender, a job which implies he's extroverted and therefore would be in the minority in a law school setting.

I gave him the exact advice I'd want someone to give me. Considering half the threads on this forum are dry and unjustified sneering at people, I consider my advice to be far more helpful than most of what I get. You don't need to be a "pickup artist" to be interested in romantic pursuits.

First, I call BS on the idea that we can accurately divine OP's gender based on a sum total of two extremely brief posts. Second, even if OP is male, he may not be heterosexual. Third, my appeal to keep "bro culture" out of these fora does not rise or fall based on OP's gender or sexual orientation. There are certainly (many) TLSers who are not male, not heterosexual, and/or not comfortable with misogynistic "bro culture." TLS threads are not intended solely for their OPs, but for the community at large.

Finally, of course you and other TLSers are free to opine on the social aspects of being a law student. My appeal was solely to keep the "bro culture" part out of things - you know, the part where you infantilize women as "girls," affirm misogynistic stereotypes about women and "drama," and deride female law students for not being "entertaining" enough for your tastes. It's entirely possible to talk about law school and dating - or bartending and dating - without disrespecting women.

MaxMcMann wrote:Can you please step in the next time someone is doling out cringy, useless comments about prestige and how doomed you are in response to every question? That's also something that pushes people away from this community and, unlike what I said, serves zero useful purpose.

I have not noticed any indiscriminate/unwarranted "cringy, useless comments about prestige and how doomed you are in response to every question" - at least nothing that remotely approaches the level warranting moderator intervention. You have my word that I will intervene if and when anyone is subjected to the kind of harassment you describe.

MaxMcMann wrote:I'll bow out of the thread on request.

There's no need to mischaracterize my post above. No one has suggested (let alone requested) that you "bow out of the thread" - only that you refrain from promoting "bro culture."

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby MaxMcMann » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:13 pm

Redacted to avoid wasting time - OP can PM me if he wants my take
Last edited by MaxMcMann on Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby SlipperyKipper » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:21 pm

Sls17 wrote:
QContinuum wrote:I'd also appreciate if we could talk a bit less in future about "picking up girls" or "relationship drama with girls" or whether women in law school are "entertaining." Women in law school are not there for the purpose of "entertaining" their male classmates. We'd like for TLS to be an inclusive, welcoming environment for all genders and sexual orientations. OP could be a woman, or a gay man, or asexual. Certainly readers of this thread aren't all going to be heterosexual men - and not even all heterosexual men are comfortable with "bro culture." There is nothing about bartending (or any other profession) that requires one to be (interested in being) a heterosexual male pickup artist.


Thanks for saying this.


QContinuum wrote: First, I call BS on the idea that we can accurately divine OP's gender based on a sum total of two extremely brief posts. Second, even if OP is male, he may not be heterosexual. Third, my appeal to keep "bro culture" out of these fora does not rise or fall based on OP's gender or sexual orientation. There are certainly (many) TLSers who are not male, not heterosexual, and/or not comfortable with misogynistic "bro culture."

Finally, of course you and other TLSers are free to opine on the social aspects of being a law student. My appeal was solely to keep the "bro culture" part out of things - you know, the part where you infantilize women as "girls," affirm misogynistic stereotypes about women and "drama," and deride female law students for not being "entertaining" enough for your tastes. It's entirely possible to talk about law school and dating without disrespecting women.


Agreed. Thank you for articulating this so well, Q. Though I agree with Max's comments about a part-time bar tending gig being good for OP's mental health, Max's repeated mention of "picking up girls" and generalizing female law students in that way bordered on creepy and misogynistic.

Max, a lot of what you posted was helpful. An anecdotal, cautionary tale that you acknowledged worked for you but might not work for others. I tried to focus on that aspect of your posts, but I am glad that Q pointed out the inconsiderate way you were talking about women and female law students. This discomfort was felt by others and he politely asked you in the future to refrain from those kinds of references. It's not difficult to discuss dating in law school with even a simple modicum of respect for women and your female colleagues.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:57 pm

MaxMcMann wrote:Y'all sound super fun at parties.


It never ceases to amaze me that people think being "fun at parties" (read: obnoxious and drunk) is a life skill after age 25.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby LSATWiz.com » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:44 pm

Do you enjoy bartending? Would it be a substitute for grabbing a burger with friends or unwinding? If yes, then it won’t hurt. There’s also value in taking days off from work. Many sociologists speculate that’s part of why religious Jews tend to do well, but if it’s just the $, I don’t know if it’s worthwhile 1L year. 2L and 3L at a t-14 make more sense.

In all likelihood, that extra studying is the difference of maybe .3 gpa points max and you might wind up at the same spot with a 3.3 and 3.6. The real value is whether it’s a 3.0 or 3.3 or 3.6 or 3.9 and you can’t know that now. The former may be job v no job. The latter may be job v long term prestige. Bartenders tend to have way above average social skills so you may interview well and be less gpa contingent than most, but there’s no way we can tell you one way or the other based on the internet.

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Re: Bartending during law school

Postby GFox345 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:07 pm

I worked 20ish hours a week in 1L at a T-14 and finished with roughly top 5% grades. It is definitely doable, and, in my opinion, the job was a very nice break from studying (which is one of the most important parts of law school for me). Also, it REALLY decreased my debt a ton. Well worth it.

I'd say try it out, see how it feels as the semester goes on, and make a judgment call. DEFINITELY take finals completely off though.



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