COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

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RVP11
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby RVP11 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:51 am

00TREX00 wrote:
Work on your writing. If your professor doesn't understand your answer, then you don't get credit for all of your arguments. When you get your lexis and westlaw pins, download some appellate briefs and read them (you might want to stick to SCOTUS cases so that there is a better chance that the issues were well briefed). This will give you an idea of what your writing style should be like. Recognize, though, that a good exam answer will incorporate both sides of the argument, not just one. So pull briefs from both sides of a case and then see how you would combine them to make a complete exam answer.


This is an overlooked but crucial aspect of getting good grades. If you feel that you are weak writer, you have to work on it, because regardless of your understanding of the material, you are going to get a B if you don't present your analysis in a lucid and nuanced way. I don't know about reading appellate briefs and trying to model your answers after them - this seems like unnecessary work. I believe that, to a significant extent, law school grades are predetermined by each person's writing abilities. Poor writing can be overcome, but one would have to spend a lot of time on improving. I read memos from my legal writing section which were poorly written, and these guys ended up below the median at my school.


What are some of the big differences between strong and weak legal writing? Obviously clarity, brevity, and detail are important. But what are some things that stand out?

00TREX00
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby 00TREX00 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:15 am

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Last edited by 00TREX00 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

snotrocket
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby snotrocket » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:51 am

JSUVA2012 wrote:What are some of the big differences between strong and weak legal writing? Obviously clarity, brevity, and detail are important. But what are some things that stand out?

Learn the difference between stating a point and arguing a point.

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steve_nash
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby steve_nash » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:30 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:What are some of the big differences between strong and weak legal writing? Obviously clarity, brevity, and detail are important. But what are some things that stand out?


I improved my grades a lot (went up .2) second semester. I think part of it was my exam organization. Second semester, I wrote introductory paragraphs for each essay, including a roadmap highlighting the major issues. I made sure to have a topic sentence for each paragraph. Also, first semester, I was told constantly--just argue both sides and you'll be fine. Second semester, I didn't always argue both sides; instead, i learned to flesh out which issues were the thorny ones, and which ones deserved a quick dismissal. This was similar to how I wrote my brief--I didn't waste my breath over issues that my side was never going to win. Don't use flowery language and really milk the facts.

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edcrane
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby edcrane » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:23 pm

steve_nash wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:What are some of the big differences between strong and weak legal writing? Obviously clarity, brevity, and detail are important. But what are some things that stand out?


I improved my grades a lot (went up .2) second semester. I think part of it was my exam organization. Second semester, I wrote introductory paragraphs for each essay, including a roadmap highlighting the major issues. I made sure to have a topic sentence for each paragraph. Also, first semester, I was told constantly--just argue both sides and you'll be fine. Second semester, I didn't always argue both sides; instead, i learned to flesh out which issues were the thorny ones, and which ones deserved a quick dismissal. This was similar to how I wrote my brief--I didn't waste my breath over issues that my side was never going to win. Don't use flowery language and really milk the facts.


This is extremely similar to my experience. During my first semester I tried to find every single issue and argue every side. This ended up distracting my professors and leaving them with the impression that I didn't understand how to "write like a lawyer." In the second semester, I essentially followed the approach advocated in the above post. My goal was to produce uncreative, simple exam answers that were extremely well organized (and therefore easy to grade). I IRAC'd where appropriate, underlined each new claim, and numbered elements and sub paragraphs. I didn't use flowery language, though I threw in a few asides on a policy heavy exam. Most importantly, I focused almost entirely on spotlight issues, tossing away loser claims with a sentence or two. I argued both sides, but only when there was something that was intentionally ambiguous about the prompt. This turned out to be a very, very good strategy.

I would pay $5,000 to go back and read this post as a 0L.

LjakW
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby LjakW » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:57 pm

I know few people go into the blog section, but this one http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77498 by Jaycutlercombover is called "The Complete 0L Guide to 1L." So far it seems to be good.

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pany1985
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby pany1985 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:52 am

Amazon doesn't seem to have Dressler's 'Understanding Criminal Law' for some reason...




http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Cri ... 310&sr=1-2

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:39 pm

pany1985 wrote:Amazon doesn't seem to have Dressler's 'Understanding Criminal Law' for some reason...

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Cri ... 310&sr=1-2

You could buy the book even in your link. You could order it new from Amazon or from one of their used book sellers.

Did you cloick on the link to the student edition?

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Cri ... ef=ed_oe_p

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pany1985
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby pany1985 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:40 pm

Yeah, there's not the usual "buy new" button to actually get it from Amazon, only from 3rd party sellers.

I'm probably gonna end up getting it used anyway, but I thought it was curious that Amazon itself didn't have the book, given that it seems to be a pretty popular 1L buy.

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Attucks
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby Attucks » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:31 pm

Speaking of Amazon, apparently there's a copy of LEEWS up that I wish I didn't see considering I paid a good chunk more for it on Ebay.

cactuslaw
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby cactuslaw » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:51 pm

Wait, so I can read E&E's and skip the hornbook? Sounds chancey, dicey, and downright saucey too me.


Also, maybe even too good to be true?

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:42 pm

cactuslaw wrote:Wait, so I can read E&E's and skip the hornbook? Sounds chancey, dicey, and downright saucey too me.


Also, maybe even too good to be true?

FLAME

cactuslaw
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Re: If you could ONLY buy 1 study guide for each class...

Postby cactuslaw » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:01 am

Alexandria wrote:I did stop reading the book and only read Casenotes for one class, because I simply needed to cut a corner somewhere. Second semester was so crazy busy that I had to do something to alleviate the pressure. And it turned out fine, but I still don't think I'd recommend doing that more than occasionally. Certainly not if you want to feel really engaged in your classes. I skipped that class often and mainly taught myself the subject from Gilbert's, Casenotes, and flash cards. It was my lowest grade, but I was still ahead of the curve, so I can't complain. I sacrificed that one to do better overall.


This is the post I was referring to, Michael. Obviously, while it's less than ideal, it appears that it can be done. Please forgive me for not providing a reference point in my original post.

06072010
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby 06072010 » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:26 pm

Don't tag posts. Use the subscription feature. Also, this post is stickied, so you're double dumb if you tag it.

ezpar
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby ezpar » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:06 pm

Some people have made reference to the fact that your books should, for the most part, be up to date. A lawyer at my job gave me a bunch of study guides she used - about half of them were completely trashed, but I think I can put the rest of them to use. Anyway, I have the "In a Nutshell" series for all of the classes I'll be taking this semester (CivPro, K's, Torts), but they're all an edition or two out of date. Should I stay away?

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steve_nash
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby steve_nash » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:30 pm

ezpar wrote:Some people have made reference to the fact that your books should, for the most part, be up to date. A lawyer at my job gave me a bunch of study guides she used - about half of them were completely trashed, but I think I can put the rest of them to use. Anyway, I have the "In a Nutshell" series for all of the classes I'll be taking this semester (CivPro, K's, Torts), but they're all an edition or two out of date. Should I stay away?


I bought all my study guides used, so they were all out of date. It didn't seem to hurt me. I would be careful in CP of how old the edition is, as the FRCP and statutes might have been updated between the old edition and today. (For instance, the amount in controversy being 50k instead of >75k or something.) Just be aware of where your professor differs from the study aid.

Happy camper
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby Happy camper » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:35 am

So, I don't need to have the latest editions of E&Es and hornbooks? This makes a really big difference in terms of price!

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Garinold
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby Garinold » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:54 am

I would like some feedback on my selections for supplements/study aids. Please note though that none of my professors wrote authored any supplements, and only one recommended one.

1) Contracts 1: The required Casebook is Contracts by John P. Dawson, William Burnett Harvey & there is a required statutory supplement Selections for Contracts: Uniform Commercial Code, Restatement 2d by E. Allan Farnsworth. I haven't selected study aid for this one yet, but I have recently started to consider the bran new Calamari and Perillo's Hornbook on Contracts just released this June (http://www.amazon.com/Calamari-Perillos ... 331&sr=8-1)

2) Civil Procedure 1: The required Casebook is Civil Procedure: A Modern Approach by Richard L. Marcus, Martin H. Redish & there is a required statutory supplement Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, 2009-2010 Educational Edition. I went w/ the Gilbert's Law Summary on CivPro since the author of my Casebook wrote it, and I bought the E&E.

3) Criminal Law: The required Casebook was one written by Joshua Dressler, and my professor actually recommended Dressler's Understanding Criminal Law (http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Cri ... 829&sr=8-1). This seemed about as straightforward as it gets.

4) Torts: The required Casebook was Cases and Materials on the Law of Torts by George C. Christie, Joseph Sanders, James E. Meeks, Ellen S. Pryor, James Meeks, and I currently have the Glannon E&E for Torts. I have heard pretty much all good feedback on the Torts E&E, are there more comprehensive, up to date & on point sources?

I think I'm in a pretty good spot with the lone exception being contracts.

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dkelch317
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby dkelch317 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:41 pm

is the chemerinsky book for con law the "Constitutional Law Principals and Policies"? I see a bunch of CONLAW books on Amazon w/ his name.

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dkelch317
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby dkelch317 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:10 pm

bump

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lishi
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby lishi » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:56 pm

Here's the link to the book everyone talks about

http://www.amazon.com/Constitutional-La ... 549&sr=8-1

Good Luck!!

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dkelch317
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby dkelch317 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:40 pm

thx

gregw8705
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby gregw8705 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:55 am

I've read a lot about using supplement keyed to your casebook. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to locate any means of determining which supplement is keyed to which casebook. How can I figure out which supplements most closely fit my casebooks?

For the record, the two casebooks I know I will be using are:

Civil Procedure: Allan Ides & Christopher N. May, Civil Procedure: Cases and Problems

Contracts: Randy Barnett, Contracts: Cases and Doctrine

How can I identify appropriately keyed supplements?

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a.williams
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby a.williams » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:32 pm

gregw8705 wrote:I've read a lot about using supplement keyed to your casebook. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to locate any means of determining which supplement is keyed to which casebook. How can I figure out which supplements most closely fit my casebooks?

For the record, the two casebooks I know I will be using are:

Civil Procedure: Allan Ides & Christopher N. May, Civil Procedure: Cases and Problems

Contracts: Randy Barnett, Contracts: Cases and Doctrine

How can I identify appropriately keyed supplements?


a trick I found to figure out which supplements are keyed to a particular casebook is to go to lawbooksforless.com and find your casebook. it will list any and all supplements either keyed to your casebook or written by an author of your casebook. you can take this information to amazon and find your books for less than they offer on the lawbooks website.

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ChattelCat
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Re: COMMON 0L QUESTIONS books, study guides, E&Es, studying,etc

Postby ChattelCat » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:48 pm

Garinold wrote:I would like some feedback on my selections for supplements/study aids. Please note though that none of my professors wrote authored any supplements, and only one recommended one.

1) Contracts 1: The required Casebook is Contracts by John P. Dawson, William Burnett Harvey & there is a required statutory supplement Selections for Contracts: Uniform Commercial Code, Restatement 2d by E. Allan Farnsworth. I haven't selected study aid for this one yet, but I have recently started to consider the bran new Calamari and Perillo's Hornbook on Contracts just released this June (http://www.amazon.com/Calamari-Perillos ... 331&sr=8-1)

2) Civil Procedure 1: The required Casebook is Civil Procedure: A Modern Approach by Richard L. Marcus, Martin H. Redish & there is a required statutory supplement Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, 2009-2010 Educational Edition. I went w/ the Gilbert's Law Summary on CivPro since the author of my Casebook wrote it, and I bought the E&E.

3) Criminal Law: The required Casebook was one written by Joshua Dressler, and my professor actually recommended Dressler's Understanding Criminal Law (http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Cri ... 829&sr=8-1). This seemed about as straightforward as it gets.

4) Torts: The required Casebook was Cases and Materials on the Law of Torts by George C. Christie, Joseph Sanders, James E. Meeks, Ellen S. Pryor, James Meeks, and I currently have the Glannon E&E for Torts. I have heard pretty much all good feedback on the Torts E&E, are there more comprehensive, up to date & on point sources?

I think I'm in a pretty good spot with the lone exception being contracts.


The Black Letter Law Outline by Dressler is also a fantastic supplement. I used the Understanding during the semester and the Black Letter to review closer to exams.




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