Clubs and Clinics - Time Waster? Forum

[tennactitans]

Other than LR and Moot, what extra curricular groups/school participation will firms want to see? Assuming one were to be on both of the aforementioned, is it advisable to add more if you can handle it, or save your time to study? My assumption is dont do a damn thing 1L, and nothing more than LR and/or Moot 2&3L.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Clinics are usually excellent because you get courtroom/practice experience representing clients and you actually learn lawyering skills. That said, I don't know that biglaw employers care since you don't really do biglaw-relevant work in clinics (they generally help indigent clients), but if you're interested in DA/PD/legal aid/small law they're incredibly helpful. Plus they're a lot more interesting than regular classes. The downside is that they're often a lot more work than regular classes.

(If you're at a school with a fancy SCOTUS clinic that might look fancy to biglaw employers, but it's still not like work you'd do as an associate. Though appellate judges might find it interesting when hiring clerks. I doubt it would make or break you even for clerking, though. And some schools have entrepreneurial law clinics which might get closer to what biglaw cares about, but those too will probably serve fairly small clients.)

Personally, I did LR and moot court and a bunch of other stuff (internships and a clinic), but I tend to do better the more I have going on.

[tennactitans]

Clinics are usually excellent because you get courtroom/practice experience representing clients and you actually learn lawyering skills. That said, I don't know that biglaw employers care since you don't really do biglaw-relevant work in clinics (they generally help indigent clients), but if you're interested in DA/PD/legal aid/small law they're incredibly helpful. Plus they're a lot more interesting than regular classes. The downside is that they're often a lot more work than regular classes.

(If you're at a school with a fancy SCOTUS clinic that might look fancy to biglaw employers, but it's still not like work you'd do as an associate. Though appellate judges might find it interesting when hiring clerks. I doubt it would make or break you even for clerking, though. And some schools have entrepreneurial law clinics which might get closer to what biglaw cares about, but those too will probably serve fairly small clients.)

Personally, I did LR and moot court and a bunch of other stuff (internships and a clinic), but I tend to do better the more I have going on.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm small potatoes Nony. In fact, I'm deciding between B*lmont or U Tenn, and banking on grades/background/local network and relationships to get me through some doors. Before you burn my profile and ban me from TLS: I'm going on the GI Bill and, worst case scenario, wind up debt free at a midlaw shop in my hometown. That said, I'm obviously going to have to maximize my appeal, hence the initial question. Hence.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Oh, well, if you don't care about biglaw (I don't either, it's just that lots of people here do), I would definitely tell you to do clinics. Much more real-world than classes and you can get great experience. And if you're clinic-ing where you want to practice, it gives you useful information about the legal community (just things like knowing the procedure in a given court is helpful). Honestly, in your context, grades are still important, but I would intern/extern with every legal employer I could through all of law school, because getting to know people will probably help you get a job more than pure grades. (Or clerk for local firms. Stuff that will get you in front of actual legal employers in your community.)

I don't think most school clubs will be of any use to you whatsoever. (Or anyone, really, unless you really have nothing on your resume to talk about.)

[BigZuck]

Clinics are usually excellent because you get courtroom/practice experience representing clients and you actually learn lawyering skills. That said, I don't know that biglaw employers care since you don't really do biglaw-relevant work in clinics (they generally help indigent clients), but if you're interested in DA/PD/legal aid/small law they're incredibly helpful. Plus they're a lot more interesting than regular classes. The downside is that they're often a lot more work than regular classes.

(If you're at a school with a fancy SCOTUS clinic that might look fancy to biglaw employers, but it's still not like work you'd do as an associate. Though appellate judges might find it interesting when hiring clerks. I doubt it would make or break you even for clerking, though. And some schools have entrepreneurial law clinics which might get closer to what biglaw cares about, but those too will probably serve fairly small clients.)

Personally, I did LR and moot court and a bunch of other stuff (internships and a clinic), but I tend to do better the more I have going on.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm small potatoes Nony. In fact, I'm deciding between B*lmont or U Tenn, and banking on grades/background/local network and relationships to get me through some doors. Before you burn my profile and ban me from TLS: I'm going on the GI Bill and, worst case scenario, wind up debt free at a midlaw shop in my hometown. That said, I'm obviously going to have to maximize my appeal, hence the initial question. Hence.

Retake duder. Don't waste those benefits on a dumpster fire like Belmont. Tennessee is fine if you have very modest aspirations.

If you end up going to a school like that then focus on stuff that gives you practical experience (but make sure it doesn't interfere with networking). Your grades are not likely to matter, so I wouldn't waste time with any journals (unless you make it on law review I guess).

Eta: Nony posted just before I hit submit. Nony- why do you think grades will matter for him?

[DELG]

If that's your deal why do you even care what firms most want to see

Do what you want, pursue what interests you

[A. Nony Mouse]

Zuck - important was probably too strong a word; maybe "worth paying attention to" would be more accurate. I figure, good grades are better than bad grades whenever possible, but no, the other kinds of stuff (experience/connections/hustle) will be much more important. I agree that the kind of typical top law school focus of "grind grades 1L to get a job, then coast" is totally inapplicable here - so the kind of advice to "just focus on grades" that works for a T14 wouldn't work here.

[sideroxylon]

If that's your deal why do you even care what firms most want to see

Do what you want, pursue what interests you

[tennactitans]

Clinics are usually excellent because you get courtroom/practice experience representing clients and you actually learn lawyering skills. That said, I don't know that biglaw employers care since you don't really do biglaw-relevant work in clinics (they generally help indigent clients), but if you're interested in DA/PD/legal aid/small law they're incredibly helpful. Plus they're a lot more interesting than regular classes. The downside is that they're often a lot more work than regular classes.

(If you're at a school with a fancy SCOTUS clinic that might look fancy to biglaw employers, but it's still not like work you'd do as an associate. Though appellate judges might find it interesting when hiring clerks. I doubt it would make or break you even for clerking, though. And some schools have entrepreneurial law clinics which might get closer to what biglaw cares about, but those too will probably serve fairly small clients.)

Personally, I did LR and moot court and a bunch of other stuff (internships and a clinic), but I tend to do better the more I have going on.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm small potatoes Nony. In fact, I'm deciding between B*lmont or U Tenn, and banking on grades/background/local network and relationships to get me through some doors. Before you burn my profile and ban me from TLS: I'm going on the GI Bill and, worst case scenario, wind up debt free at a midlaw shop in my hometown. That said, I'm obviously going to have to maximize my appeal, hence the initial question. Hence.

Retake duder. Don't waste those benefits on a dumpster fire like Belmont. Tennessee is fine if you have very modest aspirations.

If you end up going to a school like that then focus on stuff that gives you practical experience (but make sure it doesn't interfere with networking). Your grades are not likely to matter, so I wouldn't waste time with any journals (unless you make it on law review I guess).

Eta: Nony posted just before I hit submit. Nony- why do you think grades will matter for him?

It's not the LSAT that's holding me back. I'm floating around median for a few T25's. It's the bogus gpa after a mountain of punitive withdrawls 8 years ago. Not something I'll be able to overcome with (what I believe) is an already maxed out LSAT score. Side note: Belmont just placed several top grads into the biggest firms in Nashville with their first class. Several more into great in-house or midlaw spots around town. Long shot, I know, but well worth the risk with the GI.

[tennactitans]

If that's your deal why do you even care what firms most want to see

Do what you want, pursue what interests you

I do want a spot with the big offices in town. I'm a modest guy, so it's not the cash. I want to be involved in shaping and enabling local industry. I'm a big fan of Nashville, and want to participate in its newfound expansion.

[BigZuck]

You want BIG NASHVILLE LAW?

*paging Rad Baals*

eta: something tells me he'll tell you to avoid Belmont

[DELG]

If that's your deal why do you even care what firms most want to see

Do what you want, pursue what interests you

I do want a spot with the big offices in town. I'm a modest guy, so it's not the cash. I want to be involved in shaping and enabling local industry. I'm a big fan of Nashville, and want to participate in its newfound expansion.

then the clubs you will have an interest in will sync up with what firms will find interesting

there are things in law school you have to be very strategic about, but this isn't really one, just relax and get involved in the community (within and outsides of the law school) in the ways that appeal to you

[TheSpanishMain]

Thanks for the advice, but I'm small potatoes Nony. In fact, I'm deciding between B*lmont or U Tenn, and banking on grades/background/local network and relationships to get me through some doors. Before you burn my profile and ban me from TLS: I'm going on the GI Bill and, worst case scenario, wind up debt free at a midlaw shop in my hometown. That said, I'm obviously going to have to maximize my appeal, hence the initial question. Hence.

I mean, that's not the worst case scenario, unless that midlaw shop is guaranteeing you a job. Worst case scenario is you end up completely unemployed. No debt mitigates that somewhat, but it would still suck. How shitty is your GPA? Vandy is pretty vet friendly, and might take you if you have a good LSAT and the GPA isn't totally toxic. If you squeaked into Vandy, it would be at sticker, but the beauty of being a GI Bill eligible veteran is that sticker debt doesn't apply. Tennessee is probably an okay safety. Belmont I would cross off my list completely.

[tennactitans]

If that's your deal why do you even care what firms most want to see

Do what you want, pursue what interests you

I do want a spot with the big offices in town. I'm a modest guy, so it's not the cash. I want to be involved in shaping and enabling local industry. I'm a big fan of Nashville, and want to participate in its newfound expansion.

then the clubs you will have an interest in will sync up with what firms will find interesting

there are things in law school you have to be very strategic about, but this isn't really one, just relax and get involved in the community (within and outsides of the law school) in the ways that appeal to you

Thanks, delg. Relaxing is my problem. I'm too eager for information, and want to find the best, most productive solution to everything. Neuroticism is my greatest gift from the military.

[tennactitans]

Thanks for the advice, but I'm small potatoes Nony. In fact, I'm deciding between B*lmont or U Tenn, and banking on grades/background/local network and relationships to get me through some doors. Before you burn my profile and ban me from TLS: I'm going on the GI Bill and, worst case scenario, wind up debt free at a midlaw shop in my hometown. That said, I'm obviously going to have to maximize my appeal, hence the initial question. Hence.

I mean, that's not the worst case scenario, unless that midlaw shop is guaranteeing you a job. Worst case scenario is you end up completely unemployed. No debt mitigates that somewhat, but it would still suck. How shitty is your GPA? Vandy is pretty vet friendly, and might take you if you have a good LSAT and the GPA isn't totally toxic. If you squeaked into Vandy, it would be at sticker, but the beauty of being a GI Bill eligible veteran is that sticker debt doesn't apply. Tennessee is probably an okay safety. Belmont I would cross off my list completely.

At the risk of coming across as a dbag - I'm fortunate enough to have some easy options as long as I'm not a complete PoS in school. They'll probably pay alright (certainly more than the military salary I pull down now), but it won't be that big time case work. I want to work on behalf of the major corporations in Nash. I may end up middle class (which is certainly likely/respectable/comfortable), or I may hit just right. Gotta take the risk.

I spoke to Vandy admissions, and they said I'd have to transfer (assuming I work/luck into top 15%). He did, however, say that I would be a very strong transfer applicant - local vet who will graduate with no debt is a big deal to them... or he was blowing smoke.

[TheSpanishMain]

Neuroticism is my greatest gift from the military.

Yeah, so, formation is at 0800, so the commander wants you here at 0745. First Sergeant put out 0730. Platoon sergeant said you assholes better be here by 0715. Squad leader sent out a drunken mass text that, when deciphered, appears to indicate 0700. You'd better show up at 0645.

Good luck man. With that GI Bill, I'd gun hard to transfer to Vandy. If you're reasonably confident that you have a gig waiting for you, Tennessee for free isn't a bad option IMO.

[Purplebook]

Oh, well, if you don't care about biglaw (I don't either, it's just that lots of people here do), I would definitely tell you to do clinics. Much more real-world than classes and you can get great experience. And if you're clinic-ing where you want to practice, it gives you useful information about the legal community (just things like knowing the procedure in a given court is helpful). Honestly, in your context, grades are still important, but I would intern/extern with every legal employer I could through all of law school, because getting to know people will probably help you get a job more than pure grades. (Or clerk for local firms. Stuff that will get you in front of actual legal employers in your community.)

I don't think most school clubs will be of any use to you whatsoever. (Or anyone, really, unless you really have nothing on your resume to talk about.)

I can vouch for that. Clubs turned out to be a huge time waster. No OCI employer cared about my clubs. This especially sucks if your club is an overzealous one that makes you do lots of stuff.