Vandy 2L taking questions Forum

[arklaw13]

Happy to answer any questions from incoming 1Ls or incoming transfer students. The other Vandy kids on this board should feel free to jump in as well.

[rad lulz]

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[arklaw13]

Rank ur fave Nashville bars

Happy to answer any questions from incoming 1Ls or incoming transfer students.

You have no power here.

But because I'm in a good mood, I'll answer. I'm married, boring, and I live in the 'burbs. My favorite bar is the one in my kitchen.

[rahulg91]

Favorite professor?

Where do 2Ls typically summer? Is it mostly DC/NY/ATL?

[arklaw13]

Favorite professor?

I enjoyed Fitzpatrick the most. He isn't teaching 1Ls this year, though. Out of the ones who are, probably Haw.

Where do 2Ls typically summer? Is it mostly DC/NY/ATL?

All over. ATL is a pretty small market with firms that are grade snobs, so fewer people summer there than you would think. NYC and DC are popular for those who have the grades to get there. Also, a large mix of smaller southern markets. Lots seem to be wanting Texas too.

[rahulg91]

Favorite professor?

I enjoyed Fitzpatrick the most. He isn't teaching 1Ls this year, though. Out of the ones who are, probably Haw.

Where do 2Ls typically summer? Is it mostly DC/NY/ATL?

All over. ATL is a pretty small market with firms that are grade snobs, so fewer people summer there than you would think. NYC and DC are popular for those who have the grades to get there. Also, a large mix of smaller southern markets. Lots seem to be wanting Texas too.

Thanks so much! I'm not sure if you know about this yet, but what sort of grades do you need (roughly) to land an SA in NYC/DC? I know Vandy doesn't rank (or do they secretly rank?) but what range typically lands biglaw in those cities?

[arklaw13]

Favorite professor?

I enjoyed Fitzpatrick the most. He isn't teaching 1Ls this year, though. Out of the ones who are, probably Haw.

Where do 2Ls typically summer? Is it mostly DC/NY/ATL?

All over. ATL is a pretty small market with firms that are grade snobs, so fewer people summer there than you would think. NYC and DC are popular for those who have the grades to get there. Also, a large mix of smaller southern markets. Lots seem to be wanting Texas too.

Thanks so much! I'm not sure if you know about this yet, but what sort of grades do you need (roughly) to land an SA in NYC/DC? I know Vandy doesn't rank (or do they secretly rank?) but what range typically lands biglaw in those cities?

They tell us what GPA top 20% is. I have no idea what the grade cutoffs at any given firm are. For OCI, the firms will list a grade cutoff, but they aren't really helpful. For instance, King & Spalding's ATL office requires a 3.3 to interview, but they won't hire anywhere near that low.

There are NYC firms that will take Vandy kids from the top 1/3, and there are NYC firms that don't recruit from Vandy at all for whatever reason. The difference between Vandy and most of the T14 is that NYC firms will hire down to the median at T14 schools (and maybe dip a bit below), but most firms want higher grades from Vandy.

For DC, you have to have great grades no matter what school you go to. If you aren't top 20%, preferably with Law Review, I wouldn't hope too hard for DC.

[jleighg]

How bad is it to miss class during the first month? I have to book a flight home for a prior commitment, and since I have a 2 pm class on Friday, I think I'm going to have to miss it.

[arklaw13]

How bad is it to miss class during the first month? I have to book a flight home for a prior commitment, and since I have a 2 pm class on Friday, I think I'm going to have to miss it.

It will feel worse than it actually is. As long as you do the reading and get notes from someone it's unlikely that it will affect you.

[rahulg91]

Torts - Cheng
Civ Pro - Wuerth
Contracts - Bressman
Legal Writing - Murray/Alexander

Anyone have any thoughts?

[arklaw13]

Torts - Cheng
Civ Pro - Wuerth
Contracts - Bressman
Legal Writing - Murray/Alexander

Anyone have any thoughts?

Had Cheng for Torts. Great prof in my opinion. Tends to lecture much more than he cold calls. Even when he does cold call, he usually just goes in order down a row. Likes to talk theory quite a lot. Didn't outline for his class, just used his old exams to study. He gives out a ton.

[rahulg91]

Torts - Cheng
Civ Pro - Wuerth
Contracts - Bressman
Legal Writing - Murray/Alexander

Anyone have any thoughts?

Had Cheng for Torts. Great prof in my opinion. Tends to lecture much more than he cold calls. Even when he does cold call, he usually just goes in order down a row. Likes to talk theory quite a lot. Didn't outline for his class, just used his old exams to study. He gives out a ton.

Thanks sounds interesting, do you recommend any supplements for his class?

[arklaw13]

Torts - Cheng
Civ Pro - Wuerth
Contracts - Bressman
Legal Writing - Murray/Alexander

Anyone have any thoughts?

Had Cheng for Torts. Great prof in my opinion. Tends to lecture much more than he cold calls. Even when he does cold call, he usually just goes in order down a row. Likes to talk theory quite a lot. Didn't outline for his class, just used his old exams to study. He gives out a ton.

Thanks sounds interesting, do reccomend any supplements for his class?

He put one in this one on the book list for the course: http://www.amazon.com/Abrahams-Forms-Fu ... 1587781867

Helps with the theory portion of the course, which is usually a separate exam question from the normal issue spotter.

As for the not theory aspect of the course, I wouldn't recommend using any supplements. Cheng has a somewhat weird way of teaching Torts, so your best bet is really to look at his model answers for exam preparation. Answering exam questions in the way that he wants is much more important than anything else, and using a supplement would probably hurt you, rather than help.

[rahulg91]

Helps with the theory portion of the course, which is usually a separate exam question from the normal issue spotter.

As for the not theory aspect of the course, I wouldn't recommend using any supplements. Cheng has a somewhat weird way of teaching Torts, so your best bet is really to look at his model answers for exam preparation. Answering exam questions in the way that he wants is much more important than anything else, and using a supplement would probably hurt you, rather than help.

Did you use supplements any for your other classes or did you find them to be generally unhelpful?

[arklaw13]

Helps with the theory portion of the course, which is usually a separate exam question from the normal issue spotter.

As for the not theory aspect of the course, I wouldn't recommend using any supplements. Cheng has a somewhat weird way of teaching Torts, so your best bet is really to look at his model answers for exam preparation. Answering exam questions in the way that he wants is much more important than anything else, and using a supplement would probably hurt you, rather than help.

Did you use supplements any for your other classes or did you find them to be generally unhelpful?

Glannon's E&E is gold for civil procedure. I used it liberally.

I didn't use supplements for any other class and I wouldn't recommend doing so unless there's something specific that you don't understand from the reading and lectures. If there is something specific you don't understand, go to office hours and see if you can get the prof to explain it to you. When it comes to the exam, you want to know the law as your professor taught it, not as a different professor teaches it. If you professor recommends a specific supplement, feel free to use it though. For example, my crim professor recommended Dressler. Didn't use it, but I would have if I needed to.

[rahulg91]

Helps with the theory portion of the course, which is usually a separate exam question from the normal issue spotter.

As for the not theory aspect of the course, I wouldn't recommend using any supplements. Cheng has a somewhat weird way of teaching Torts, so your best bet is really to look at his model answers for exam preparation. Answering exam questions in the way that he wants is much more important than anything else, and using a supplement would probably hurt you, rather than help.

Did you use supplements any for your other classes or did you find them to be generally unhelpful?

Glannon's E&E is gold for civil procedure. I used it liberally.

I didn't use supplements for any other class and I wouldn't recommend doing so unless there's something specific that you don't understand from the reading and lectures. If there is something specific you don't understand, go to office hours and see if you can get the prof to explain it to you. When it comes to the exam, you want to know the law as your professor taught it, not as a different professor teaches it. If you professor recommends a specific supplement, feel free to use it though. For example, my crim professor recommended Dressler. Didn't use it, but I would have if I needed to.

Thanks for taking the time to do this, and good luck at OCI (or if it's already past good luck for 2L!)

[jk148706]

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[arklaw13]

what is the cut off for law review? how does the process work ?

There is a joint write-on competition for all three journals (LR, transational law, and jetlaw). You write a mini-note, do a bluebooking exercise, and an editing exercise. This takes place the week after spring exams and goes on for 10 days. The submissions are scored separately by each of the three journals over the summer, and membership is selected mid-July. I think results came out two weeks ago for us.

The way Law Review determines membership is as follows: there are 32 total spots, with the first 16 going to the 16 highest scores from the write-on competition. The next 16 spots go to the people with the 16 highest GPA's in the class (excluding the people who already had one of the top 16 write on scores). I can't tell you what the GPA cutoff to grade-on is because I have no idea. A little higher than top 10% depending on the size of your class, but your guess is as good as mine as to what the 3.xxx cutoff is.

The other two journals have their own method for selecting members. JetLaw selects based on a 50/50 combination of your GPA and your write-on score for all of their 32 spots. Transnational law uses that for 16 of their spots, and the other 16 are filled based solely on the write-on scores.

[jk148706]

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[arklaw13]

Thanks for the response, Ark.

Also wondering how 1L Vandy students go about securing employment for 1L summer. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks again

There is a 1L OCI but it is really small. Mostly firms from Birmingham. Other than that, basically you just mass mail firms in the area where you have ties sometime in the Fall. CSO will say not to mail anyone until November 1, I think (or maybe later). Whether you follow that is up to, but I would definitely send cover letters and resumes out before exams start in December. Say that you will be back in that area over Christmas break and would be available to interview. Then you can update with your grades after they come out and you won't have to go back and interview when classes have started again.

If you're more interested in nonprofit or gov. stuff, then you just email them your stuff directly most of the time. There is a gov/PI job fair sometime in the spring where a lot of local organizations come, including USAO, IRS, PD offices, environmental stuff, etc. and some people got jobs through that.

If you are from a market in the south, you have a decent shot at working for a firm there 1L. Especially if you're from Texas or Alabama. There is also a Recruitment Handbook for each class year published by CSO which lists where every student worked their 1L summer. You can use that to get an idea of what firms/organizations will hire Vandy 1Ls. You'll have access to the handbooks when you can log on to the intranet.

[jk148706]

Thanks for the response, Ark.

Also wondering how 1L Vandy students go about securing employment for 1L summer. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks again

There is a 1L OCI but it is really small. Mostly firms from Birmingham. Other than that, basically you just mass mail firms in the area where you have ties sometime in the Fall. CSO will say not to mail anyone until November 1, I think (or maybe later). Whether you follow that is up to, but I would definitely send cover letters and resumes out before exams start in December. Say that you will be back in that area over Christmas break and would be available to interview. Then you can update with your grades after they come out and you won't have to go back and interview when classes have started again.

If you're more interested in nonprofit or gov. stuff, then you just email them your stuff directly most of the time. There is a gov/PI job fair sometime in the spring where a lot of local organizations come, including USAO, IRS, PD offices, environmental stuff, etc. and some people got jobs through that.

If you are from a market in the south, you have a decent shot at working for a firm there 1L. Especially if you're from Texas or Alabama. There is also a Recruitment Handbook for each class year published by CSO which lists where every student worked their 1L summer. You can use that to get an idea of what firms/organizations will hire Vandy 1Ls. You'll have access to the handbooks when you can log on to the intranet.

Got it. Thanks again.

[blueruditio]

Torts - Cheng
Civ Pro - Wuerth
Contracts - Bressman
Legal Writing - Murray/Alexander

Anyone have any thoughts?

Another rising 2L here, different section. Had Wuerth for Civ Pro. She's pretty straight forward, but does not give a ton of practice exams. She's willing to answer questions as often as possible during class and during office hours. She'll also review the harder topics near the end of the semester. She recommends, like the other profs, the E&E for practice problems, and that's pretty much all you need for supplements in her class. Everything builds on the previous topic--use the syllabus as a checklist.

[blueruditio]

Thanks for the response, Ark.

Also wondering how 1L Vandy students go about securing employment for 1L summer. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks again

There is a 1L OCI but it is really small. Mostly firms from Birmingham. Other than that, basically you just mass mail firms in the area where you have ties sometime in the Fall. CSO will say not to mail anyone until November 1, I think (or maybe later). Whether you follow that is up to, but I would definitely send cover letters and resumes out before exams start in December. Say that you will be back in that area over Christmas break and would be available to interview. Then you can update with your grades after they come out and you won't have to go back and interview when classes have started again.

If you're more interested in nonprofit or gov. stuff, then you just email them your stuff directly most of the time. There is a gov/PI job fair sometime in the spring where a lot of local organizations come, including USAO, IRS, PD offices, environmental stuff, etc. and some people got jobs through that.

If you are from a market in the south, you have a decent shot at working for a firm there 1L. Especially if you're from Texas or Alabama. There is also a Recruitment Handbook for each class year published by CSO which lists where every student worked their 1L summer. You can use that to get an idea of what firms/organizations will hire Vandy 1Ls. You'll have access to the handbooks when you can log on to the intranet.

Got it. Thanks again.

Echo all above, except for contact date. They'll tell you not to contact employers re: applications until Dec. 1, and, particularly with firms, it's probably best to respect that. They aren't supposed to contact you with employment information until then. That said, if you're trying to go big law for 1L summer, mass mail as arklaw13 said above, and probably do that on December 1st. Have everything ready to go before exams and take a couple of hours to do it one day before exams, but no more-1L grades are apparently important. Winter break is key. If you can get in the door before grades come out, you should have an advantage.

[arklaw13]

Echo all above, except for contact date. They'll tell you not to contact employers re: applications until Dec. 1, and, particularly with firms, it's probably best to respect that. They aren't supposed to contact you with employment information until then. That said, if you're trying to go big law for 1L summer, mass mail as arklaw13 said above, and probably do that on December 1st. Have everything ready to go before exams and take a couple of hours to do it one day before exams, but no more-1L grades are apparently important. Winter break is key. If you can get in the door before grades come out, you should have an advantage.

Yeah Dec. 1 sounds right. Check NALP for information about when firms want you to apply. Some firms want them ASAP after Dec 1., some tell you to wait after fall grades come out. If you're looking at firms that are large enough to be on NALP, I would probably wait until after Dec 1. However, if you are looking at smaller firms with irregular recruiting practices like I was, then I think mailing before Dec 1 is probably okay. This is particularly true if this is a really small market with no true biglaw firms. Most of the firms I applied to for 1L summer aren't NALP firms and don't care about the Dec 1 restriction (if they even know about it). I sent out applications mid-Nov to a few firms and was able to get interviews set up right after exams were over. I don't know if I would have been able to do that had I waited until Dec 1.

Another thing I forgot to mention is holiday mixers. Lots of firms in southern markets have holiday events and these can be a big recruiting tool. If I remember right, Bradley Arant in Birmingham filled almost all their Vandy slots from people who attended their holiday mixer (or so I was told). This is before grades even came out. The Nashville firms do holiday mixers but I don't know if they're as gung-ho about them as some of the B'ham firms. In any case, if there is a holiday mixer in the city you're targeting for 1L, go to it if at all possible.

[rahulg91]

Sorry to bump, but can anyone chime in on any good Contracts supplements (I have Bressman if that matters)?

Thanks!