Top 5 Student at T14 Taking Questions Forum

[racejudicata15]

I am a rising 3L at a T14. After my first two years at law school, I am one of the top 5 students at my school. I contemplated writing one of those articles about how to succeed in law school, but there are a lot of those articles and I decided that it might be more worthwhile to answer pointed questions.

Fire away.

[ph14]

I am a rising 3L at a T14. After my first two years at law school, I am one of the top 5 students at my school. I contemplated writing one of those articles about how to succeed in law school, but there are a lot of those articles and I decided that it might be more worthwhile to answer pointed questions.

Fire away.

What school range? Are you planning on clerking? Are you going to try for #1?

[racejudicata15]

I don't want to give my school range because I don't want to "out" myself. So, I'll stick with T14 for now.

I am clerking. I'm clerking for a feeder judge in 2/9/DC and then clerking for a district court judge (think DC/SDNY/ND Cal).

I mean, I'm trying for number one. I might actually be number one; I'm not sure. I was number 2 or 3 after my first year of law school, and my GPA went up during my second year.

[ph14]

I don't want to give my school range because I don't want to "out" myself. So, I'll stick with T14 for now.

I am clerking. I'm clerking for a feeder judge in 2/9/DC and then clerking for a district court judge (think DC/SDNY/ND Cal).

I mean, I'm trying for number one. I might actually be number one; I'm not sure. I was number 2 or 3 after my first year of law school, and my GPA went up during my second year.

Cool stuff, good luck. Any plans for after your clerkships?

[First Offense]

Do you think your opportunities during OGI (callbacks, offers, etc.) were significantly superior to other LR kids outside of maybe the obvious firms that are absurdly selective?

Also - was it easy to keep the Eye of the Tiger during 2L?

[Dr.Zer0]

Do you think your LSAT/GPA was a good predictor of your class rank?

[Holly Golightly]

I didn't think any of the T14 actually ranked...

[racejudicata15]

I don't want to give my school range because I don't want to "out" myself. So, I'll stick with T14 for now.

I am clerking. I'm clerking for a feeder judge in 2/9/DC and then clerking for a district court judge (think DC/SDNY/ND Cal).

I mean, I'm trying for number one. I might actually be number one; I'm not sure. I was number 2 or 3 after my first year of law school, and my GPA went up during my second year.

Cool stuff, good luck. Any plans for after your clerkships?

Get a job? I'm actually gunning for a public interest position, so I'm not quite sure what the employment plan is. I'm not that afraid of being unemployed, but it is terrifying not having any clue what state I will eventually end up in.

[First Offense]

I didn't think any of the T14 actually ranked...

Did you miss the UVA leak? Also, some may keep certain thresholds ranked for award reasons - I know UVA kept track of #1 and top ~7% for LR purposes.

[ph14]

Do you think your LSAT/GPA was a good predictor of your class rank?

I can say with some confidence that it isn't a "good" predictor.

[Holly Golightly]

I didn't think any of the T14 actually ranked...

Did you miss the UVA leak? Also, some may keep certain thresholds ranked for award reasons - I know UVA kept track of #1 and top ~7% for LR purposes.

I know schools internally know, but I didn't think any of the top schools actually gave out this info (except when accidentally leaked, a la UVA)

[FSK]

How do I rock the hell out of 2L?

[Balthy]

Like "how to succeed" threads this has also been beaten to death, but just curious anyway.. Did you do anything your 0L summer to prepare for LS?

Do you have any free time? What's the typical study day/week like?

Congrats and thanks for answering Qs.

[racejudicata15]

Do you think your LSAT/GPA was a good predictor of your class rank?

I can say with some confidence that it isn't a "good" predictor.

I don't know. For what it's worth, I was a reverse splitter. I am paying sticker at my school.

[racejudicata15]

I didn't think any of the T14 actually ranked...

Did you miss the UVA leak? Also, some may keep certain thresholds ranked for award reasons - I know UVA kept track of #1 and top ~7% for LR purposes.

I know schools internally know, but I didn't think any of the top schools actually gave out this info (except when accidentally leaked, a la UVA)

Hmm, I thought I answered this question, but my post appeared to be lost. My school doesn't officially rank, but they do. Someone in the administration told me my class rank. I also generally know the other top students at my school and their approximate GPAs. My school definitely ranks at least the stop students for clerkship placement purposes.

[racejudicata15]

Do you think your opportunities during OGI (callbacks, offers, etc.) were significantly superior to other LR kids outside of maybe the obvious firms that are absurdly selective?

Also - was it easy to keep the Eye of the Tiger during 2L?

So, I didn't do OCI (because I am a public interest person). But one of my friends who is also in the top 5 at my school said that she was surprised at how easy it was to get a job. She was worried that firms in states she had no connections to would be wary of her, but her grades ended up being all the connection she needed. However, I have a lot of friends who are on LR and have good (but not top 5) grades that ended up at really prestigious firms. If you have a high (but not stellar) GPA, you'll find something prestigous.

And 2L was way worse than 1L. People who say 1L is the worst year are lying.

[racejudicata15]

Like "how to succeed" threads this has also been beaten to death, but just curious anyway.. Did you do anything your 0L summer to prepare for LS?

Do you have any free time? What's the typical study day/week like?

Congrats and thanks for answering Qs.

I have an inner gunner, so I did a fair amount of 0L prep. I did LEEWS, Law Preview (but only because I had a scholarship), and read all the typical books (like "Getting to Maybe" and 1L). I didn't do any substantive prep, and I definitely wouldn't suggest substantive prep. You have no idea what your professors are going to teach, and it would just be a waste of time to crack open an e&e or hornbook.

I don't have a lot of free time. My typical weekday work from 5:30 a.m.-10:30 p.m. I am doing work all day except for when I am in classes or eating lunch and dinner. Sometimes I work out I guess. I sleep in on the weekends, but I generally work most of the day on Saturday and Sunday too. I know I work too hard and could get away with working less. But if I'm not working, I stress out about not working. So I might as well work.

[FSK]

Like "how to succeed" threads this has also been beaten to death, but just curious anyway.. Did you do anything your 0L summer to prepare for LS?

Do you have any free time? What's the typical study day/week like?

Congrats and thanks for answering Qs.

I have an inner gunner, so I did a fair amount of 0L prep. I did LEEWS, Law Preview (but only because I had a scholarship), and read all the typical books (like "Getting to Maybe" and 1L). I didn't do any substantive prep, and I definitely wouldn't suggest substantive prep. You have no idea what your professors are going to teach, and it would just be a waste of time to crack open an e&e or hornbook.

I don't have a lot of free time. My typical weekday work from 5:30 a.m.-10:30 p.m. I am doing work all day except for when I am in classes or eating lunch and dinner. Sometimes I work out I guess. I sleep in on the weekends, but I generally work most of the day on Saturday and Sunday too. I know I work too hard and could get away with working less. But if I'm not working, I stress out about not working. So I might as well work.

What the heck did you do for all that time?

[Balthy]

That's an insane amount of time to study. You said you're a gunner at heart, but did you always have your LS work ethic? Or did you sort of turn on the afterburners once you started law school? Any tips for a generally shitty and unproductive student?

You mentioned you have friends who are also in the top 5. I'm curious, did you guys somehow meet as a result of being ranked so high, or did the friends you naturally make end up being some of the top students? Just wondering how much one's social/study groups affects performance. I know it played a huge role for me in undergrad.

[Nebby]

Any tips for a generally shitty and unproductive student?

Don't be shitty and unproductive.

[racejudicata15]

Like "how to succeed" threads this has also been beaten to death, but just curious anyway.. Did you do anything your 0L summer to prepare for LS?

Do you have any free time? What's the typical study day/week like?

Congrats and thanks for answering Qs.

I have an inner gunner, so I did a fair amount of 0L prep. I did LEEWS, Law Preview (but only because I had a scholarship), and read all the typical books (like "Getting to Maybe" and 1L). I didn't do any substantive prep, and I definitely wouldn't suggest substantive prep. You have no idea what your professors are going to teach, and it would just be a waste of time to crack open an e&e or hornbook.

I don't have a lot of free time. My typical weekday work from 5:30 a.m.-10:30 p.m. I am doing work all day except for when I am in classes or eating lunch and dinner. Sometimes I work out I guess. I sleep in on the weekends, but I generally work most of the day on Saturday and Sunday too. I know I work too hard and could get away with working less. But if I'm not working, I stress out about not working. So I might as well work.

What the heck did you do for all that time?

I don’t really want to tell you what I do all day because I am afraid you will attempt to do it as well. I fully recognize that my approach to law school is unsustainable for most people. As I stated before, I could likely work a lot less and still do well in law school.

But to answer your question broadly, I do all the typical stuff. I read and brief every case. I relied very heavily on supplements during my 1L year, but used them much less in 2L year. I do every single practice exam that I can get my hands on. For even more practice, I also try to do CALI lessons and law in a flash. I also have an insane outlining system that sucks up a lot of time (I do three or four rounds of outlining for each class, which is insane. Don’t do it.). I always something more I could be doing.

Again, I know people who have been successful in law school and have managed to get away with working much less. I just know that I am a slow learner and a get stressed out if I don’t feel like I am doing as much work as I can.

[racejudicata15]

That's an insane amount of time to study. You said you're a gunner at heart, but did you always have your LS work ethic? Or did you sort of turn on the afterburners once you started law school? Any tips for a generally shitty and unproductive student?

You mentioned you have friends who are also in the top 5. I'm curious, did you guys somehow meet as a result of being ranked so high, or did the friends you naturally make end up being some of the top students? Just wondering how much one's social/study groups affects performance. I know it played a huge role for me in undergrad.

1) I have always had my law school work ethic. I overworked in undergrad as well. But undergrad was just less work in general, so it wasn’t as bad as law school. My greatest gift and biggest curse is the same: I have an inability to procrastinate.

2) When I refer to other top 5 students, I use the term “friends” loosely. I didn’t know any of them until 2L year. I’m actually really creepy and I tracked them down (by cross-referencing book awards with LR ed board; I know I’m insane). I emailed them and was like “let’s talk about clerkship applications.” We’ve just sort of stayed in touch since.

My study group does not contain any other top 5 (or even top 10) students. I study with my friends. As many have said before me, GPA doesn’t necessarily correlate with intelligence or knowledge. There is this one girl who I absolutely love studying with and want to take all my classes with just so that I have a good study partner. I think she’s slightly above median. When I found out she was median pawned in one of our classes, I was shocked: she knew the law better than I did.

I studied once in a group of “top” students. (They were all a year ahead of me, but they were the top people in their respective class). It was awful; I hated it. It just stressed me out.

So, basically I only became “friends” with other top students because of our grades. I didn’t naturally fall in step with them. And I probably wouldn’t have naturally fallen in step with them given our differing career goals.

But if you are the type of person who isn't naturally motivated, I could see why it would be helpful to be around other top students.

[KD35]

Around the same realm at my respective school (but not a T14 by any stretch) and slightly concerned about being able to keep the motivation through 2L year, especially considering my grades went down slightly this past semester (but still kept the same rank). What caused you to stay motivated this year? Did you have to do anything different to keep the motivation? Did you notice others around you that were around the top slipping more than you did? Did you spend as much time on classes 2L as you did 1L year or less because of extracurriculars/LR?

[racejudicata15]

Around the same realm at my respective school (but not a T14 by any stretch) and slightly concerned about being able to keep the motivation through 2L year, especially considering my grades went down slightly this past semester (but still kept the same rank). What caused you to stay motivated this year? Did you have to do anything different to keep the motivation? Did you notice others around you that were around the top slipping more than you did? Did you spend as much time on classes 2L as you did 1L year or less because of extracurriculars/LR?

If it makes you feel better, my grades went down second semester. But they bounced back up during my 2L year. For me, I think I just tend to do worse during the spring semester because I am a little burnt out and over law school by that point.

I think it is actually easier for people in our position to be motivated during our 2L year. There is so much more at stake for people who have high GPAs. If you are someone who is in the top 10% of our class after 1L year and takes a job at OCI, no one really cares if you drop to like top 20% or so; you’ll still likely have your job (at least that’s what I hear). Also, it’s just easier to maintain your GPA with seminars. However, for someone like me, I have a plausible chance at SCOTUS and other fancy jobs if I keep my grades up. I sort of feel like I have more to lose than other people by not keeping my grades up. This is especially true when it comes to clerkships: I wouldn’t have gotten either of my clerkships without my stellar first semester 2L grades. That’s the motivation. But let’s be honest: if you are in the top 10 at your school but your GPA somewhat drops over 2L year, you’ll probably still be fine employment wise. You’re in a great position, and you’ll find something. But you just might not have the same range of choices. Goodness, that paragraph made me sound like a prick. I am sorry.

I tried to spend as much time on classes 2L as I did first year, but I don’t think it happened for exactly the reason you point out: extracurriculars and Law Review. I just had other stuff to do. I also took a really work-intensive clinic that ate up a lot of my time. I loved my clinic and highly recommend it; I just lost a lot of time that would otherwise be spent studying. But everyone in your 2L classes also has more extracurriculars, so basically everyone is in the same boat.

[NYULawStudent123]

Around the same realm at my respective school (but not a T14 by any stretch) and slightly concerned about being able to keep the motivation through 2L year, especially considering my grades went down slightly this past semester (but still kept the same rank). What caused you to stay motivated this year? Did you have to do anything different to keep the motivation? Did you notice others around you that were around the top slipping more than you did? Did you spend as much time on classes 2L as you did 1L year or less because of extracurriculars/LR?

If it makes you feel better, my grades went down second semester. But they bounced back up during my 2L year. For me, I think I just tend to do worse during the spring semester because I am a little burnt out and over law school by that point.

I think it is actually easier for people in our position to be motivated during our 2L year. There is so much more at stake for people who have high GPAs. If you are someone who is in the top 10% of our class after 1L year and takes a job at OCI, no one really cares if you drop to like top 20% or so; you’ll still likely have your job (at least that’s what I hear). Also, it’s just easier to maintain your GPA with seminars. However, for someone like me, I have a plausible chance at SCOTUS and other fancy jobs if I keep my grades up. I sort of feel like I have more to lose than other people by not keeping my grades up. This is especially true when it comes to clerkships: I wouldn’t have gotten either of my clerkships without my stellar first semester 2L grades. That’s the motivation. But let’s be honest: if you are in the top 10 at your school but your GPA somewhat drops over 2L year, you’ll probably still be fine employment wise. You’re in a great position, and you’ll find something. But you just might not have the same range of choices. Goodness, that paragraph made me sound like a prick. I am sorry.

I tried to spend as much time on classes 2L as I did first year, but I don’t think it happened for exactly the reason you point out: extracurriculars and Law Review. I just had other stuff to do. I also took a really work-intensive clinic that ate up a lot of my time. I loved my clinic and highly recommend it; I just lost a lot of time that would otherwise be spent studying. But everyone in your 2L classes also has more extracurriculars, so basically everyone is in the same boat.

If you have a possibility to get SCOTUS, you're probably HYS, but who knows.