Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
TirantMartorell
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Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby TirantMartorell » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:07 pm

Ask away...

kobe1020
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby kobe1020 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:48 am

How well does Norte dame grads compete against other elite schools in Chicago market? And how bad is the economy in Illinois?...

Also, you think it is doable to drive to Chicago for the weekend? Like, every weekend?...if I got into Norte dame my girlfriend might also end up doing her residency program in Chicago so..

Thanks!

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:58 am

You can drive to Chicago every weekend, it's less than two hours.

If you're in the top 20%-ish you'll at least have a shot at big Chicago firms. For my class (2013), pretty much only LR people got Chicago biglaw, but it improved slightly after that.

hos9903
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby hos9903 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:28 pm

any evidence of people making it to Boston big law from ND? I have pretty strong ties to the area, so where in the class would I need to place to have a shot there, in your opinion?

Also, I know that the law school isn't overwhelmingly religious, but have you felt that the school still draws mostly conservative students?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:39 pm

I only knew two people who were gunning for Boston in my class and they both got it, but they were both on LR. They had ties to New England (attended BC and PC, respectively). I got a callback at Goodwin without any significant Boston ties (one year at BC before transferring in undergrad). It's definitely possible, but I think you'd need to be at least top 20%ish.

hos9903
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby hos9903 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:45 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:I only knew two people who were gunning for Boston in my class and they both got it, but they were both on LR. They had ties to New England (attended BC and PC, respectively). I got a callback at Goodwin without any significant Boston ties (one year at BC before transferring in undergrad). It's definitely possible, but I think you'd need to be at least top 20%ish.


awesome, thank you. And I just saw you answered my question on the other thread so thanks for that too.

Any thoughts on whether the student body tends to be conservative (not necessarily religious)?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:57 pm

It's a more conservative student body than probably any tier 1 law school other than maybe BYU. We have a quite active Federalist Society and it routinely out-draws ACS and ACLU events. In our campus-wide mock election, Romney won by 8 points (all students, undergrads/grads/professional could participate).

We also have a very active STMS and the student body at the law school is religious, but if you are not religious there is no pressure on you.

CJ2017
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby CJ2017 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:08 pm

How is the placement in DC for summer externships/internships? How does ND do with clerkships?

hos9903
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby hos9903 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:17 pm

what do people do for housing? I don't want to live on campus, but I am open to living in a house that is close with a group of law student roommates. I assume that's a pretty standard mindset heading into 1L year, so how easy is it to find a house/roommates?

mx23250
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby mx23250 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:54 pm

How substantial is the number of OCI firms? It may be hard to compare this to other comparable schools in the midwest, but do you feel there's plenty of top firms looking to hire you for summer or post-grad employment? How easy/difficult is it to get a good summer position at a firm through these OCI? Thanks!

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bdogbb
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby bdogbb » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:02 am

I've visited the Campus, I love the place and I would love to go there, but I'm from Southern California and I pretty much have to end up back here after law school because of family care issues. Anyhow, does ND have any reach back here, or would a ND law degree be a one way ticket to the eastern half of the country?

lovesthelaw
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby lovesthelaw » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:42 pm

I'm interested in living on campus for the 1L year. It's cheap and convenient. Is this a bad idea?

mx23250
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby mx23250 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:22 pm

bdogbb wrote:I've visited the Campus, I love the place and I would love to go there, but I'm from Southern California and I pretty much have to end up back here after law school because of family care issues. Anyhow, does ND have any reach back here, or would a ND law degree be a one way ticket to the eastern half of the country?


I recall by looking at their employment data that California is the #2 state that grads take jobs in, barely behind Illinois and still ahead of Indiana. I think you should be able to find a good job out there with a ND Law degree. I'm also looking to possible take a job in California due to my interest in patent law.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:58 am

We have plenty of students in every class from Southern California, and most of them end up back there. That being said, most of those firms don't come to OCI, so you'll have to do a bit more work yourself, but then again most people at ND don't get jobs through OCI so I wouldn't look at that as being a disadvantage. To be competitive for the big LA firms, you'll need the same types of grades you need for big firms everywhere- law review or just shy of it would help.

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yossarian
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby yossarian » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:23 am

I was perusing the Student Code of Conduct and became slightly concerned.

It seemed to insinuate that sexual conduct was not allowed for any student and could potentially be subject to discipline even if the conduct took place off campus.

I think the obvious answer is that ND Law has many students of many backgrounds, many of whom are sexually active. And, what happens off-campus is no one's concern.

However, I am thinking about the Assistant Rector to help finance law, and while I fully understand not having sex in the residence as it is the university's, I imagine AR's are held to a higher standard in general. They are supposed to "uphold University principles and the Code of Conduct."

Can you speak to this at all? Are there any other technical rules that are ignored by law students?

Thanks

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:42 pm

Students can technically be expelled for having sex, yes. However, I don't think any Notre Dame students can remember the last time that happened. When I was an undergrad, I did hear of one student who received a punishment from ResLife for having sex in a dorm (because it was reported by his pissed-off roommate), but that student was not expelled.

If you read du Lac, you will probably find a lot of things that seem a bit over the top, but are rarely enforced and could never be legally enforced off campus anyway.

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yossarian
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby yossarian » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:31 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Students can technically be expelled for having sex, yes. However, I don't think any Notre Dame students can remember the last time that happened. When I was an undergrad, I did hear of one student who received a punishment from ResLife for having sex in a dorm (because it was reported by his pissed-off roommate), but that student was not expelled.

If you read du Lac, you will probably find a lot of things that seem a bit over the top, but are rarely enforced and could never be legally enforced off campus anyway.


Thanks for the perspective. Appreciate it.

...

What percentage of 1Ls would you say take their studies seriously and try hard? I know this is a silly question. But, I am interested for a few reasons.

1) I want to be surrounded by people who take their studies seriously, and there has been a popular suggestion that many T1 (non T14) schools do not.
2) Similarly, I've heard arguments that the chances for BigLaw/Clerkship at T1 schools aren't as bad as the numbers indicate if you factor that you are probably only actually competing against people who take their first year seriously.

Again, I know there is a level of ridiculousness to this question. Just interested to get a student perspective.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:50 pm

yossarian71 wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:Students can technically be expelled for having sex, yes. However, I don't think any Notre Dame students can remember the last time that happened. When I was an undergrad, I did hear of one student who received a punishment from ResLife for having sex in a dorm (because it was reported by his pissed-off roommate), but that student was not expelled.

If you read du Lac, you will probably find a lot of things that seem a bit over the top, but are rarely enforced and could never be legally enforced off campus anyway.


Thanks for the perspective. Appreciate it.

...

What percentage of 1Ls would you say take their studies seriously and try hard? I know this is a silly question. But, I am interested for a few reasons.

1) I want to be surrounded by people who take their studies seriously, and there has been a popular suggestion that many T1 (non T14) schools do not.
2) Similarly, I've heard arguments that the chances for BigLaw/Clerkship at T1 schools aren't as bad as the numbers indicate if you factor that you are probably only actually competing against people who take their first year seriously.

Again, I know there is a level of ridiculousness to this question. Just interested to get a student perspective.


90%? I mean, there are always people who look at law school as an extension of college. By and large, however, people at NDLS take law school seriously. That number obviously decreases, especially for people in the bottom half of the class, for 2L and 3L years.

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yossarian
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby yossarian » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:04 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
90%? I mean, there are always people who look at law school as an extension of college. By and large, however, people at NDLS take law school seriously. That number obviously decreases, especially for people in the bottom half of the class, for 2L and 3L years.


Confirms what I expected. Thanks.

andythefir
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby andythefir » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:13 pm

CJ2017 wrote:How is the placement in DC for summer externships/internships? How does ND do with clerkships?


I was blown away by our clerkship numbers for the class of 2014. Think 6-10+ fed cir. clerks, including a couple in major feeders. This is in a class of 180. ND crushes any of its peers when it comes to placing students in conservative chambers.

As for DC, I knew several people there for externships and for jobs. I think you need pretty good grades, but it's definitely possible.

andythefir
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby andythefir » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:17 pm

mx23250 wrote:How substantial is the number of OCI firms? It may be hard to compare this to other comparable schools in the midwest, but do you feel there's plenty of top firms looking to hire you for summer or post-grad employment? How easy/difficult is it to get a good summer position at a firm through these OCI? Thanks!


For my class (2014) there were a boatload of pretty large Midwest firms. There were a lot of NY, CA etc. as well, but what struck me was how firms from all over the region converged. My class also rebounded in a huge way from the classes of 2011-2013, which I would guess had 12-20% big law. My class is much closer to 40%. That said, the most common (successful) job search story you hear is someone from the middle of nowhere who goes back there, and those positions typically don't happen through OCI. That said, firms from Montana or rural Ohio wouldn't come to OCI at Yale, so if you want one of those jobs you won't get it through OCI anywhere.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:46 pm

andythefir wrote:
CJ2017 wrote:How is the placement in DC for summer externships/internships? How does ND do with clerkships?


I was blown away by our clerkship numbers for the class of 2014. Think 6-10+ fed cir. clerks, including a couple in major feeders. This is in a class of 180. ND crushes any of its peers when it comes to placing students in conservative chambers.

As for DC, I knew several people there for externships and for jobs. I think you need pretty good grades, but it's definitely possible.


Your class was unbelievable as far as clerkships go. In my class (2013) we only had three circuit clerks and no feeders, but not as many people were as interested in clerking. 2014 was just amazing though.

mx23250
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby mx23250 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:50 pm

andythefir wrote:
mx23250 wrote:How substantial is the number of OCI firms? It may be hard to compare this to other comparable schools in the midwest, but do you feel there's plenty of top firms looking to hire you for summer or post-grad employment? How easy/difficult is it to get a good summer position at a firm through these OCI? Thanks!


For my class (2014) there were a boatload of pretty large Midwest firms. There were a lot of NY, CA etc. as well, but what struck me was how firms from all over the region converged. My class also rebounded in a huge way from the classes of 2011-2013, which I would guess had 12-20% big law. My class is much closer to 40%. That said, the most common (successful) job search story you hear is someone from the middle of nowhere who goes back there, and those positions typically don't happen through OCI. That said, firms from Montana or rural Ohio wouldn't come to OCI at Yale, so if you want one of those jobs you won't get it through OCI anywhere.


Wow!! That's VERY impressive!! I'm really looking forward to the AWS in March! It's pretty clear ND has an excellent national reputation. Thanks for the info!

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John Everyman
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby John Everyman » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:55 pm

How do Chicago firms generally treat ND students in competition with Northwestern and UChi grads? Am I likely to get crushed up against them if I went to ND even if my numbers are overall better than those students'?

Also, do the domer alumni generally live up to their rep? Meaning, how many people tend to get jobs/foot in the door through alumni resources? and also on that note, how hard does ND work to put you in touch with alumni lawyers?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame Student(s) Taking Questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:58 pm

John Everyman wrote:How do Chicago firms generally treat ND students in competition with Northwestern and UChi grads? Am I likely to get crushed up against them if I went to ND even if my numbers are overall better than those students'?

Also, do the domer alumni generally live up to their rep? Meaning, how many people tend to get jobs/foot in the door through alumni resources? and also on that note, how hard does ND work to put you in touch with alumni lawyers?


The alumni are the best. Sent out several cold emails to people at firms and they took the time to write long, detailed responses (eventually talked on the phone to a few of them, including a former clerk of a judge I was targeting). I got my 1L job (judicial internship with a double domer state CoA judge) and my clerkship (with a NDLS alum district judge) entirely because of ND. It also didn't hurt for my applications to conservative/libertarian public interest firms (one of which I'll be going to as a fellow after my clerkship).




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