Firms Overseas

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alexrodriguez
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Firms Overseas

Postby alexrodriguez » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:40 am

I enjoy living abroad.

I did the whole teach in China thing and now I'm stationed overseas with the Navy.

How easy is it to find legal work overseas?

I'm not too keen on practicing in the states.

Steveloblaw
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby Steveloblaw » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:49 pm

louierodriguez wrote:I enjoy living abroad.

I did the whole teach in China thing and now I'm stationed overseas with the Navy.

How easy is it to find legal work overseas?

I'm not too keen on practicing in the states.


Unless you happen to be a dual-citizen in a particular country, it is highly unlikely. You will pass the bar in a given U.S. state, and will be registered as a lawyer of US law. The vast, vast, majority of lawyers work in the States - a very small number are lucky to work at a smaller overseas office with a US firm, but even then, it often takes 5+ years of work here before being able to move across one of the various ponds.

Long story short (too late), if you want to work abroad, get a Masters in International Relations, don't go to law school.

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smaug_
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby smaug_ » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:52 pm

Steveloblaw wrote:
louierodriguez wrote:I enjoy living abroad.

I did the whole teach in China thing and now I'm stationed overseas with the Navy.

How easy is it to find legal work overseas?

I'm not too keen on practicing in the states.


Unless you happen to be a dual-citizen in a particular country, it is highly unlikely. You will pass the bar in a given U.S. state, and will be registered as a lawyer of US law. The vast, vast, majority of lawyers work in the States - a very small number are lucky to work at a smaller overseas office with a US firm, but even then, it often takes 5+ years of work here before being able to move across one of the various ponds.

Long story short (too late), if you want to work abroad, get a Masters in International Relations, don't go to law school.


This is wrong on many levels. If you have language abilities you can pretty easily work in a foreign office of a US firm. I wouldn't call most of those people "lucky" though. They often work strange schedules and can struggle to lateral back to the US.

Also to the OP: worry about getting into law school first.

Steveloblaw
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby Steveloblaw » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:12 pm

hibiki wrote:
Steveloblaw wrote:
louierodriguez wrote:I enjoy living abroad.

I did the whole teach in China thing and now I'm stationed overseas with the Navy.

How easy is it to find legal work overseas?

I'm not too keen on practicing in the states.


Unless you happen to be a dual-citizen in a particular country, it is highly unlikely. You will pass the bar in a given U.S. state, and will be registered as a lawyer of US law. The vast, vast, majority of lawyers work in the States - a very small number are lucky to work at a smaller overseas office with a US firm, but even then, it often takes 5+ years of work here before being able to move across one of the various ponds.

Long story short (too late), if you want to work abroad, get a Masters in International Relations, don't go to law school.


This is wrong on many levels. If you have language abilities you can pretty easily work in a foreign office of a US firm. I wouldn't call most of those people "lucky" though. They often work strange schedules and can struggle to lateral back to the US.

Also to the OP: worry about getting into law school first.


Both my parents are lawyers who work overseas, and I, and they, have first hand knowledge of just how hard it is to do this. A newly minted lawyer does not get a job overseas "pretty easily" just by having the required language skills.

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smaug_
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby smaug_ » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:27 pm

Steveloblaw wrote:Both my parents are lawyers who work overseas, and I, and they, have first hand knowledge of just how hard it is to do this. A newly minted lawyer does not get a job overseas "pretty easily" just by having the required language skills.


If you speak the right language(s), firms will court you and recruit you to join the firm. Maybe it's different if you're talking about the European market (I have no clue) but I know it isn't significantly more difficult to get a position with a firm in Asia than it is in the US if you speak the language. It is totally possible to start your career outside the US. Whether that's a good idea or not depends on the firm, the market and whether you're comfortable being stuck outside of the US.

I'm sure your parents are wonderful people, but you're not the only person who has an awareness of legal hiring outside the US. Your use of words like "very small number" and "lucky" seems to show a pretty big disconnect with the way most satellite offices are perceived.

3L Student
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby 3L Student » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:31 pm

Steveloblaw wrote:
hibiki wrote:
Steveloblaw wrote:
louierodriguez wrote:I enjoy living abroad.

I did the whole teach in China thing and now I'm stationed overseas with the Navy.

How easy is it to find legal work overseas?

I'm not too keen on practicing in the states.


Unless you happen to be a dual-citizen in a particular country, it is highly unlikely. You will pass the bar in a given U.S. state, and will be registered as a lawyer of US law. The vast, vast, majority of lawyers work in the States - a very small number are lucky to work at a smaller overseas office with a US firm, but even then, it often takes 5+ years of work here before being able to move across one of the various ponds.

Long story short (too late), if you want to work abroad, get a Masters in International Relations, don't go to law school.


This is wrong on many levels. If you have language abilities you can pretty easily work in a foreign office of a US firm. I wouldn't call most of those people "lucky" though. They often work strange schedules and can struggle to lateral back to the US.

Also to the OP: worry about getting into law school first.


Both my parents are lawyers who work overseas, and I, and they, have first hand knowledge of just how hard it is to do this. A newly minted lawyer does not get a job overseas "pretty easily" just by having the required language skills.


No, you are wrong on so many levels. I'm a practicing attorney in Europe. Nearly all of the US attorneys over here start off overseas and do capital markets work. Usually they work for a V10 branch office or a Magic Circle firm. It's almost never the case where an associate works for 5+ years in the US then moves over to Europe. It's almost always the opposite.

Steveloblaw
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby Steveloblaw » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:59 pm


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smaug_
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby smaug_ » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:46 pm

Steveloblaw wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=211845&p=6873557&hilit=+overseas#p6873557


Yes, linking to a random thread on TLS certainly proves us both wrong, especially a thread where OP doesn't seem to have actual experience or language skills.

Steveloblaw
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby Steveloblaw » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:52 pm

You are not pleasant, and I'm done with this thread. You might want to take a look at that thread though - there are a couple of posters in there who said, nearly word for word, what I said above. Would you like to tell them that they're "wrong on many levels"?

Pokemon
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby Pokemon » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:14 pm

My two cents as a 3L. Biglaw hires abroad. They do resume collect for offices abroad (in particular London, but also Milan, Madrid, Sao Paolo, and a bunch of Asian cities).
But, it is harder, something that you cannot count on. Finally, you need to show a lot of dedication about working abroad. People will look at you with suspicion.
My recommendation will be to contact firms as a 1L about it. Not so you work there for your 1L summer, as much as so that you can show them that you are dedicated to living abroad.

Finally however, have a strong narrative about being abroad (really, abroad = London in 99% of cases), not just I happen to like it.

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Detrox
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby Detrox » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:09 pm

Steveloblaw wrote:You are not pleasant, and I'm done with this thread. You might want to take a look at that thread though - there are a couple of posters in there who said, nearly word for word, what I said above. Would you like to tell them that they're "wrong on many levels"?


The thread you cited doesn't even support your argument. It suggests that it is difficult to get a job in a foreign firm with a U.S. JD, it says nothing about working in a foreign country office of a US firm. As many posters have already said, if you have the language skills and are interested in the relevant corporate work, it is not that difficult to work overseas shortly after graduating law school in a Biglaw firm.

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:38 am

To support what others have said here: it depends.

Getting a job at a magic circle or v10 firm in London, for example, is going to be very difficult - harder than getting a US-based v10 job. I know a few people at my HYS that bid on London offices at OCI. All of them got great offers in NYC/DC, but only a couple of them got London offers.

In contrast, I spent my 1L summer at an office of an international law firm in a less-desirable Asian country (think Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, etc). As far as I can tell from talking to attorneys at different firms there, they really struggle to get qualified US-educated lawyers. The biggest problem they have is that the few they are able to hire tend to leave within a year or two - after discovering they don't really like life in that country. At a networking event, I talked at length to a partner at the local office of a major international law firm about how much I'd been enjoying my time in the country, and he basically offered me a job if I decided I wanted to come back (it wasn't a promise, but it was fairly close). The reason why he was so interested in me was presumably because, having spent a few months in the country, I would know what I was getting myself in for in coming back, and would be more likely to stay long enough to be useful. So if you're interested in living in a similar country, the trick would be to get a chance to live in that country your 1L or 2L summer and then do some networking.

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yomisterd
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby yomisterd » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:01 pm

Pokemon wrote:Finally however, have a strong narrative about being abroad (really, abroad = London in 99% of cases), not just I happen to like it.


What would this look like? Is the strong narrative something along the lines of, "I have a passion for international trade regulation/contracts with multinational financial corps based in London/EU regulatory framework" that is demonstrated through coursework?

Just curious, as "I happen to like" living abroad. :lol:

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hephaestus
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby hephaestus » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:43 pm

yomisterd wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Finally however, have a strong narrative about being abroad (really, abroad = London in 99% of cases), not just I happen to like it.


What would this look like? Is the strong narrative something along the lines of, "I have a passion for international trade regulation/contracts with multinational financial corps based in London/EU regulatory framework" that is demonstrated through coursework?

Just curious, as "I happen to like" living abroad. :lol:

Its more like you lived in Europe for several years (not just a study abroad), or are an international student originally from Europe.

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banjo
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby banjo » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:51 am

AntipodeanPhil wrote:To support what others have said here: it depends.

Getting a job at a magic circle or v10 firm in London, for example, is going to be very difficult - harder than getting a US-based v10 job. I know a few people at my HYS that bid on London offices at OCI. All of them got great offers in NYC/DC, but only a couple of them got London offers.

In contrast, I spent my 1L summer at an office of an international law firm in a less-desirable Asian country (think Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, etc). As far as I can tell from talking to attorneys at different firms there, they really struggle to get qualified US-educated lawyers. The biggest problem they have is that the few they are able to hire tend to leave within a year or two - after discovering they don't really like life in that country. At a networking event, I talked at length to a partner at the local office of a major international law firm about how much I'd been enjoying my time in the country, and he basically offered me a job if I decided I wanted to come back (it wasn't a promise, but it was fairly close). The reason why he was so interested in me was presumably because, having spent a few months in the country, I would know what I was getting myself in for in coming back, and would be more likely to stay long enough to be useful. So if you're interested in living in a similar country, the trick would be to get a chance to live in that country your 1L or 2L summer and then do some networking.


Interesting. How did you get the 1L job in Asia? Any special language skills?

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Ron Mexico
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby Ron Mexico » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:53 am

Steveloblaw wrote:
louierodriguez wrote:I enjoy living abroad.

I did the whole teach in China thing and now I'm stationed overseas with the Navy.

How easy is it to find legal work overseas?

I'm not too keen on practicing in the states.


Unless you happen to be a dual-citizen in a particular country, it is highly unlikely. You will pass the bar in a given U.S. state, and will be registered as a lawyer of US law. The vast, vast, majority of lawyers work in the States - a very small number are lucky to work at a smaller overseas office with a US firm, but even then, it often takes 5+ years of work here before being able to move across one of the various ponds.

Long story short (too late), if you want to work abroad, get a Masters in International Relations, don't go to law school.


LOOOOL

Pokemon
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby Pokemon » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:07 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:
Steveloblaw wrote:
louierodriguez wrote:I enjoy living abroad.

I did the whole teach in China thing and now I'm stationed overseas with the Navy.

How easy is it to find legal work overseas?

I'm not too keen on practicing in the states.


Unless you happen to be a dual-citizen in a particular country, it is highly unlikely. You will pass the bar in a given U.S. state, and will be registered as a lawyer of US law. The vast, vast, majority of lawyers work in the States - a very small number are lucky to work at a smaller overseas office with a US firm, but even then, it often takes 5+ years of work here before being able to move across one of the various ponds.

Long story short (too late), if you want to work abroad, get a Masters in International Relations, don't go to law school.


LOOOOL


I have heard that Masters are the single biggest waste of money in the academic universe, unless maybe it is an MBA at a top school.

rad lulz
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby rad lulz » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:21 pm

louierodriguez wrote:I enjoy living abroad.

I did the whole teach in China thing and now I'm stationed overseas with the Navy.

How easy is it to find legal work overseas?

I'm not too keen on practicing in the states.

Hope you like cap markets because that's probably what you'll be doing (maybe FCPA, project finance, or international arbitration)

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: Firms Overseas

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:52 pm

banjo wrote:How did you get the 1L job in Asia? Any special language skills?

My only language is English. I do have a fairly 'international' CV, though.

There were a few positions advertised on my school's Symplicity, and I applied to all of those. Beyond that, I just picked a couple of countries I was particularly interested in, looked up rankings of firms in those countries, and emailed some of the top firms. I got interviews both ways.

In some countries (i.e., Korea), the top firms often have pages on their websites that discuss their 1L programs for foreign students and list application information. For other counties, you might have to improvise.




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