Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

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Apollo526
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Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby Apollo526 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:41 pm

Did both my undergrad and my law school at The University of Texas. Focused on intellectual property and bit on mock trial my third year.

Currently studying for the bar, so I'll only check this page about once a day and try to respond to as much as I can within 5-10 minutes.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby bizzybone1313 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:28 pm

Is UT "elite" enough to make it worth attending in our current legal economy? How did most of your class fare in terms of getting a good job? Obviously I could look at lawschooltransparency.com, but I rather ask you to hear what you have to say.

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StylinNProfilin
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby StylinNProfilin » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:34 pm

also UT undergrad and starting at UT in the fall!

Anything u wish you would have done differently?
hows the job outlook for students that finish outside the top 1/3 or so?

Apollo526
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby Apollo526 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:43 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:Is UT "elite" enough to make it worth attending in our current legal economy? How did most of your class fare in terms of getting a good job? Obviously I could look at lawschooltransparency.com, but I rather ask you to hear what you have to say.


With regard to your first question -I think asking if you want to be a lawyer is a better question. UT offers one of the best values in terms of cost if you are in-state. Out of state is a different question, and the answer would depend on what else your admission options were. I honestly think the better question is whether you really want to be a lawyer and want to take that risk in this economy.

I don't know the complete numbers for my graduating class, and I can only speak to my group of friends. The majority of people I know have received job offers before graduation -many at the time of graduation. Many of these were former engineering majors doing patent law, which is still in high demand (and really always was). Of the people outside that group, most people I knew were at least top 50% and they all had jobs before graduation.

I do know a couple of people that are still looking, but not sure what their grades are or how much they have invested into looking.

Apollo526
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby Apollo526 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:48 pm

StylinNProfilin wrote:also UT undergrad and starting at UT in the fall!

Anything u wish you would have done differently?
hows the job outlook for students that finish outside the top 1/3 or so?



Congrats and hook 'em.

Bust your ass the first year. Yes, have a life, but your grades are simply the most important thing. I lived with friends and took too many chances to have fun instead of really buckling down. That quickly translated into freaking out and worrying I was doing something wrong. I wasted so much time re-doing work instead of taking the time to learn how to do it correctly.

As per my above post, I don't know official numbers for the entire class. That being said, I was just below the 50% line and managed to get a job in April of my 3L. I sent out over 300-500 resumes across the 3 years and never landed a big firm summer position. I worked in-house my 1L summer, split my summer between 2 non-paying gov't jobs my 2L summer, did another non-profit the fall of my 3L year, and then landed a job with a mid-sized firm in Austin. I don't know how much of that was market, but I know that people will better grades didn't have that problem.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby ScottRiqui » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:22 am

I know "IP SECURE" isn't the lock it used to be, but did you feel like it helped your prospects at all? And for someone who's pretty sure they want to go the IP route, would it be worthwhile to get the Patent Bar Exam knocked out before law school, assuming enough downtime to prep for it properly?

Apollo526
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby Apollo526 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:56 am

ScottRiqui wrote:I know "IP SECURE" isn't the lock it used to be, but did you feel like it helped your prospects at all? And for someone who's pretty sure they want to go the IP route, would it be worthwhile to get the Patent Bar Exam knocked out before law school, assuming enough downtime to prep for it properly?


I actually did soft-IP being that I didn't have a hard science background. Ultimately, I got hired by a firm primarily doing IP litigation and primarily patent litigation at that. All that is to say I know very little personally about the patent bar. I do know that the majority of my friends had not taken it and it did not seem to hurt their job prospects any. I actually only know of 1 person that did take it, and although he did get a job, I don't know if it was because of the bar, his background, or the fact that he networked was involved in numerous organizations.

All of that being said, I think your background plays a bigger role than whether you've taken the patent bar as the later is easily remedied. Just from my experience, it seems that not all engineering backgrounds were created equal. Chemical seemed to do well. I THINK physical did well and electrical did not do as well (but still better than someone without any) but I can't be 100% sure.

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sinfiery
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby sinfiery » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:44 pm

Do you know anyone who was trying to get work outside of Texas and if so, how successful were they?

Apollo526
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby Apollo526 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:55 pm

sinfiery wrote:Do you know anyone who was trying to get work outside of Texas and if so, how successful were they?


The majority of my friends were wanting to remain in state, but most wanted to head to Dallas, Fort Worth, or Houston. I had a few go to San Antonio as well, but they were by far the majority. While I can think of more than a few that went out of state, they all had some connection to the area before law school. These connections extended beyond "My aunt lives there" and usually were of the "lived there for 5 years before coming to law school" type of connections. I know I personally had difficulty finding out of Texas work, but once again, I believe my grades were a big reason of that. I interviewed with several firms in California, Chicago, and New York. In fact, I almost went to New York but couldn't get enough of a firm commitment from the firm to risk it.

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sinfiery
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby sinfiery » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:36 pm

Good to know! As a Texan, I always want to imagine UT was more of a national school and glad it atleast can be.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:50 pm

sinfiery wrote:Good to know! As a Texan, I always want to imagine UT was more of a national school and glad it atleast can be.


NY went surprisingly deep into the class this year. I know people well outside of the top 25% going to pretty good vault firms.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:50 pm

Apollo526 wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Do you know anyone who was trying to get work outside of Texas and if so, how successful were they?


The majority of my friends were wanting to remain in state, but most wanted to head to Dallas, Fort Worth, or Houston. I had a few go to San Antonio as well, but they were by far the majority. While I can think of more than a few that went out of state, they all had some connection to the area before law school. These connections extended beyond "My aunt lives there" and usually were of the "lived there for 5 years before coming to law school" type of connections. I know I personally had difficulty finding out of Texas work, but once again, I believe my grades were a big reason of that. I interviewed with several firms in California, Chicago, and New York. In fact, I almost went to New York but couldn't get enough of a firm commitment from the firm to risk it.


I actually have a friend that was hired as an Assistant District Attorney in Manhattan/New York. He graduated from UT about 2 years ago. He still currently works there. I know his grades weren't all that great. I guess he just got lucky during his interview. Being a Manhattan ADA is fairly presitigous, right? He got real unlucky, because after accepting his ADA gig in Manhattan, he was offered a job by the Houston district attorney's office. He did not want to back out from the Manhattan ADA gig, so he did end up working there.

It seems that schools like UT-Austin, UCLA, Vanderbilt and a few others will continue to be worth going to as the legal economy continues to recover.
Last edited by bizzybone1313 on Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:54 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Good to know! As a Texan, I always want to imagine UT was more of a national school and glad it atleast can be.


NY went surprisingly deep into the class this year. I know people well outside of the top 25% going to pretty good vault firms.


I think a lot of people outside of Texas really fail to see the appeal of living in this state. We do not have a state income tax. The cost of living is reasonable in just about every city in the state. Our legal market is very good and less saturated compared to other areas of the country. Because of all of this, it seems close to impossible to really be able to get a good grasp of what kind of national mobility one can get with a UT law degree. Most people probably do, in fact, attempt to stay in Texas.
Last edited by bizzybone1313 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thatdude222
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby thatdude222 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:05 am

bizzybone1313 wrote:
Apollo526 wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Do you know anyone who was trying to get work outside of Texas and if so, how successful were they?


The majority of my friends were wanting to remain in state, but most wanted to head to Dallas, Fort Worth, or Houston. I had a few go to San Antonio as well, but they were by far the majority. While I can think of more than a few that went out of state, they all had some connection to the area before law school. These connections extended beyond "My aunt lives there" and usually were of the "lived there for 5 years before coming to law school" type of connections. I know I personally had difficulty finding out of Texas work, but once again, I believe my grades were a big reason of that. I interviewed with several firms in California, Chicago, and New York. In fact, I almost went to New York but couldn't get enough of a firm commitment from the firm to risk it.


I actually have a friend that was hired as an Assistant District Attorney in Manhattan/New York. He graduated from UT about 2 years ago. He still currently works there. I know his grades weren't all that great. I guess he just got lucky during his interview. Being a Manhattan ADA is fairly presitigous, right? He got real unlucky, because after accepting his ADA gig in Manhattan, he was offered a job by the Houston district attorney's office. He did not want to back out from the Manhattan ADA gig, so he did end up working there.

It seems that schools like UT-Austin, UCLA, Vanderbilt and a few others will continue to be worth going to as the legal economy continues to recover.


Did your friend go to A&M for undergrad?

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thatdude222
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby thatdude222 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:13 am

How hard do you feel it was for you and other people you may know to get a job with a mid-sized or even a big firm in Austin? I hear it's really competitive, but how competitive really? Do Austin ties help any?

And as a general question, what pieces of advice do you wish you had received prior to 1L?

Apollo526
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby Apollo526 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:44 pm

thatdude222 wrote:How hard do you feel it was for you and other people you may know to get a job with a mid-sized or even a big firm in Austin? I hear it's really competitive, but how competitive really? Do Austin ties help any?

And as a general question, what pieces of advice do you wish you had received prior to 1L?


I don't know of anyone that really wanted to stay in Austin that was unable to find a job. That being said, the majority of people either didn't care where they went, or wanted to return to Dallas or Houston and find a job there. The majority of firm jobs came from Dallas or Houston, though those firms also commonly had Austin offices as well (though typically smaller).

Apollo526
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby Apollo526 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:50 pm

thatdude222 wrote:How hard do you feel it was for you and other people you may know to get a job with a mid-sized or even a big firm in Austin? I hear it's really competitive, but how competitive really? Do Austin ties help any?

And as a general question, what pieces of advice do you wish you had received prior to 1L?



Sorry, forgot the advice question.

Don't freak out at the beginning. Work your way up to a higher work level sometime around the start of November. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Use a professor's office hours, even if you think you understand the material/what they want. When November hits, don't make excuses, just buckle down and get it down. Don't bitch about it either -everyone is going through the same thing.

Also some advice that I either got or created and followed myself: Make friends. UT has an awesome society/section thing set up where the entire 1L year is split into groups of 100, who are then split into groups of 50, who are then split into 25. That group of 25 ended up being some of my best friends. Don't approach it as "networking," but honestly get to know people. I have already brought business to my new firm because a classmate of mine knew I was really interested in type X of work and had a family member that had a type X problem. Also, and this is more for your 2nd and 3rd years, but don't try to avoid hard classes. Federal Courts, Federal Income Tax, Choice of Laws -there are many courses that have a killer reputation. Some students try to avoid these because they'r afraid of harming their GPA or they want to have an easy 3L year. That is going to bite you in the ass when it comes time to study for the bar and you're looking at a concept for the first time and going -huh?

mrsmartypants
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby mrsmartypants » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:11 pm

Apollo526 wrote: Also, and this is more for your 2nd and 3rd years, but don't try to avoid hard classes. Federal Courts, Federal Income Tax, Choice of Laws -there are many courses that have a killer reputation. Some students try to avoid these because they'r afraid of harming their GPA or they want to have an easy 3L year. That is going to bite you in the ass when it comes time to study for the bar and you're looking at a concept for the first time and going -huh?


I agree with the "don't try to avoid hard classes" point, and all of the ones you mention are good ones (that I personally didn't take)--but none are on the bar exam.

And I want to dissuade anyone from thinking that success on the bar exam demands taking doctrinal classes in all, or even most, of the TX bar subjects. A good bar review course will give you what you need to know.

Apollo526
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby Apollo526 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:35 pm

mrsmartypants wrote:
I agree with the "don't try to avoid hard classes" point, and all of the ones you mention are good ones (that I personally didn't take)--but none are on the bar exam.

And I want to dissuade anyone from thinking that success on the bar exam demands taking doctrinal classes in all, or even most, of the TX bar subjects. A good bar review course will give you what you need to know.


I completely agree that a good bar review course will enable you to pass. Regardless of whether you've taken a course in a subject or not, you will have work to do when it comes time to study for the bar. There will be things your professors didn't teach, etc. Additionally, professors have a tendency to focus on the policy of laws and less so on the black letter whereas the bar exam is the exact opposite. That being said, having had a course in a subject at least exposes you to the terms and the general idea of the subject. For example, I have been studying family law all day, which I took the last semester of my 3L. In lecture today, we breezed over the statutory tables used to determine child support payments and when a court may go "off-book." Fortunately, I'm okay with that because I've spent substantial time with them already.

So, in summary. Choosing classes as a 2L and 3L should look like this: 1) Is there something I'm passionate about or simply want to know more about? If not, 2) Is there something that I SHOULD know more about (wills, family law, oil & gas, etc.) and then 3) feel free to balance out an otherwise hard schedule with something like "good and evil in the art of law" (real course).

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philosoraptor
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby philosoraptor » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:45 pm

sinfiery wrote:Do you know anyone who was trying to get work outside of Texas and if so, how successful were they?
Plenty of people find work out of state -- especially those not from Texas -- and it's very doable.

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ajclark1992
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby ajclark1992 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:23 am

Any decent restaraunts within walking distance of the law school?

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StylinNProfilin
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby StylinNProfilin » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:50 am

ajclark1992 wrote:Any decent restaraunts within walking distance of the law school?


Trudy's tex-mex. the Mexican martinis are awesome.

Apollo526
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby Apollo526 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:03 am

StylinNProfilin wrote:
ajclark1992 wrote:Any decent restaraunts within walking distance of the law school?


Trudy's tex-mex. the Mexican martinis are awesome.


+1 for Trudy's but that's A) kind of a long-ish walk and B) not somewhere you want to go if you hope to get any work done for the rest of the night.

Plenty of stuff near by depending on what/when you want, but remember this is Texas so driving is often assumed for the better places.

If you are just looking for lunch between classes: George's (downstairs cafe, used to suck but has gotten a lot better in the past year); Jimmy John's (about a 7-10 min walk), fast food at the stadium (about a 5 min walk) including How do you Roll, Subway, and maybe 1-2 more?; food at the Student Activities Center on main campus (about a 7-10 min walk) including Chick-fil-a, Starbucks, Taco Cabana, and more.

If you are looking for somewhere after class, Trudy's is a great choice. I always enjoyed Sao Paulo for dinner and Crown & Anchor (pub) for drinks and some food. Both are next to each other and w/in easy walking distance.

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StylinNProfilin
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby StylinNProfilin » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:26 am

Apollo526 wrote:
StylinNProfilin wrote:
ajclark1992 wrote:Any decent restaraunts within walking distance of the law school?


Trudy's tex-mex. the Mexican martinis are awesome.


+1 for Trudy's but that's A) kind of a long-ish walk and B) not somewhere you want to go if you hope to get any work done for the rest of the night.

Plenty of stuff near by depending on what/when you want, but remember this is Texas so driving is often assumed for the better places.

If you are just looking for lunch between classes: George's (downstairs cafe, used to suck but has gotten a lot better in the past year); Jimmy John's (about a 7-10 min walk), fast food at the stadium (about a 5 min walk) including How do you Roll, Subway, and maybe 1-2 more?; food at the Student Activities Center on main campus (about a 7-10 min walk) including Chick-fil-a, Starbucks, Taco Cabana, and more.

If you are looking for somewhere after class, Trudy's is a great choice. I always enjoyed Sao Paulo for dinner and Crown & Anchor (pub) for drinks and some food. Both are next to each other and w/in easy walking distance.


how is JP java?

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thatdude222
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Re: Recently Graduated UT Law Student taking questions

Postby thatdude222 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:35 am

Students on every college campus in America will say that "parking sucks". But how bad is it really at UT? I'll have no choice but to make a 20+mile drive to campus my first semester. How early do you have to get to campus to get a spot close to the law school?

Are there any student activities/events do you think everyone should go to or participate in?

What has been your experience networking with or contacting UT Law alumni? Do alumni generally seem pretty helpful/loyal?




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