Cooley Grad, let it rip.

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Cooleytruthsayer
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Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:35 pm

Recent Cooley grad here. Want good, bad, or just reality? Pop a question.

Hint#1: If anyone posts on this board about "being from GrandRapids or Auburn Hills" it means they go to Cooley. Cooley tried to be stealth placing most of their campuses near other law schools (to absorb those who-for whatever reason-wanted to live in those Lansing/Ann Arbor but not attend the regular law schools in the area), but they had a case of the fuck its with those ones.

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Reinhardt
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Reinhardt » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:37 pm

Is Cooley a good faith effort to run a law school, or is it a knowing scam? The absurd Cooley law school rankings lead me to believe the latter.

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Typhoon24
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Typhoon24 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:38 pm

how are job prospects looking for you and your fellow grads? JD-required jobs only.

also, why did you go to cooley?

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:06 pm

Typhoon24 wrote:how are job prospects looking for you and your fellow grads? JD-required jobs only.

also, why did you go to cooley?


At other law schools people (at least claim) to have jobs lined up BEFORE they take the bar. Cooley grads are told not to even apply until after the bar (the majority fail it).

Most start out from day one being told (and telling others) that they will "just go solo" and "show them all"
The Profs tell everyone stories about how "these judges they know" are "more impressed" with cooley grads than non cooley grads, but they never provide proof of it. (or when you do an article on one, it is just that one guy out of the thousands they spit out each year)

Cooley publishes its employment stats online if you want to looks at them. They are grim. A full third of the class is not employed by ANYONE even after subtracting the nonlegal field work (fastfood,etc) and grad schools (llm,mba,etc)

It's pretty F'd up. But they all just keep drinking the Kooley-Aid getting mad at anyone who points to "cospiracies and lies" like actual bar passage rates or the employment stats, or the fact that going solo with no experience is a bad idea.

The head dean even wrote the state bar tryign to threaten to sue if they didn't lower their standards (no joke, it's on their site and everything) because as he worded it "it is meant to be a minimum competiency test, and this just isn't fair to make it this hard" even though UOM had around an 80% pass rate that year when cooley pulled around a 48%. (which of course made the profs spread rumors about "conspiracies to hold back cooley grads because they know cooley grads are better and they are scared".)

Yup.

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Typhoon24
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Typhoon24 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:09 pm

Thanks. And the second question I asked?

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:09 pm

Do you have a job?

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:10 pm

Reinhardt wrote:Is Cooley a good faith effort to run a law school, or is it a knowing scam? The absurd Cooley law school rankings lead me to believe the latter.


I think that mean well and want to give "a chance to those who would not otherwise get a chance" but it is hard to build a house out of inferior materials and then expect people to honestly believe your claims of it being "better" than other homes despite the offical inspectors proofs to the contrary due to a fresh count of paint and your own "better" stats on it.

To use an example, yeah law students don't always wear suits. But at most schools if you show up in a dew rag and a dirty wife beater you wouldn't blend in.................lansing campus evenings you'd stick out as the highest quality dressed student in the room.

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:12 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:Do you have a job?


not as of yet no, I am sitting the upcoming bar. No one will give a cooley resume a chance until after the bar. I got a lot of "maybe" and "come back later and we may be able to help" responses so far, but that is it.

oh and the encouragement of "just go solo, only losers work for someone else" speeches from the students and staff.

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:14 pm

Typhoon24 wrote:Thanks. And the second question I asked?


Typical reasons, low undergrad gpa/lsat, no BA, all that fun stuff.

No lies from me brother.

Any cooley readers watching this who actually had higher stats might think "oh well, then the facts are not about me" but as you see I am pointing out facts about the GROUP as a whole.

The only ones with lined up jobs are the ones who have dads or uncles who run private practices and were nagged into going into the family business.

Heck, I survived the 1/3 attrition rate, I must have been doing something right I guess...................
Last edited by Cooleytruthsayer on Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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dr123
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby dr123 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:16 pm

Why didnt you transfer/drop out?

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:17 pm

dr123 wrote:Why didnt you transfer/drop out?


1. No one transfers from cooley (or almost no one) the 2.0 curve sees to that.
(even though everyone tells you they "had the option but chose not to" for various BS reasons)

2. Dropout? Why enroll to dropout?

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dsn32
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby dsn32 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:23 pm

How much of your class drinks the "Cooley-Aid" and believes it a great experience? Even worse, how many would encourage friends to attend?

Full Disclosure: I have a friend who attends and will try to get anyone and everyone he knows to consider attending Cooley. It was really awkward to tell them I wasn't considering it, and they got somewhat confrontational, which blew my mind.

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dr123
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby dr123 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:26 pm

Cooleytruthsayer wrote:
dr123 wrote:Why didnt you transfer/drop out?


1. No one transfers from cooley (or almost no one) the 2.0 curve sees to that.
(even though everyone tells you they "had the option but chose not to" for various BS reasons)

2. Dropout? Why enroll to dropout?


Why did you enroll in the first place? Were you not aware of their poor employment stats? I guess what Im asking is why didnt you drop out when you realized that only 1/4 of the class find FT employment.

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:28 pm

dsn32 wrote:How much of your class drinks the "Cooley-Aid" and believes it a great experience? Even worse, how many would encourage friends to attend?

Full Disclosure: I have a friend who attends and will try to get anyone and everyone he knows to consider attending Cooley. It was really awkward to tell them I wasn't considering it, and they got somewhat confrontational, which blew my mind.


I'd say the majority. It is worse among night students and WAY worse among weekend students. Almost all boomers or dang near, and all gunners wannabes too (it's sad since they are wrong most of the time and yet refuse to stop talking and talk over and beyond the prof who s trying to correct them)

I'd say that the regular weekday day time students are a 50/50 split though.

Even then it varies based on who is around. Often their opinions vary like a piece of dust in the wind, blowing which ever way the rest of the things around them are going.

Whenever you get a group of people together they will get cult mentality (for whatever variety of reasons)
But if you come to class and half your class looks like an active crypt member...................gotta ask yourself wtf from time to time you know?
Last edited by Cooleytruthsayer on Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:30 pm

dr123 wrote:
Cooleytruthsayer wrote:
dr123 wrote:Why didnt you transfer/drop out?


1. No one transfers from cooley (or almost no one) the 2.0 curve sees to that.
(even though everyone tells you they "had the option but chose not to" for various BS reasons)

2. Dropout? Why enroll to dropout?


Why did you enroll in the first place? Were you not aware of their poor employment stats? I guess what Im asking is why didnt you drop out when you realized that only 1/4 of the class find FT employment.


It's ok, I'll be honest on personal stuff too. Once you get that first year of debt in and survive the culling (let's face it that is what it is) it's hard to justify not doing the rest.

You also have to factor in that most cooley students don't really have other options comparable to even the shittiest law job (some will lie and talk about "going back to walmart" or whatever, but..............yeah.....)
So that is a factor too.

I'm not saying that I went in 100% blind or anything like that, just trying to honest to any one who wants an actual "been there done that and not going to lie" opinion on it is all.
Last edited by Cooleytruthsayer on Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:33 pm

The truth boils down to this. In class I would see laptops open and people posting all over this board. Many are still here watching this but not typing "shut up I love cooley" and they need to ask themselves why they are so scared to even have their anonomous avatar outed as a cooley student.

Deep down, they already have their answer, and they'd know it too if they were honest with themselves about it.

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Bronte
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Bronte » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:40 pm

What do students and professors think about the University of Michigan and the handful of big law firms in the state?

Huey Freeman
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Huey Freeman » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:43 pm

how awesome is the library?

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:48 pm

Bronte wrote:What do students and professors think about the University of Michigan and the handful of big law firms in the state?


To be honest I hear them bellyache more about MSU than UOM (ass backwards I know, but I think it has to do with their main campus being in Lansing)

When it comes to UOM they mostly just try to pretend that it isn't there. Point out their 80% bar pass rates (nearly double ours) and you get deer in headlights looks followed by "but even their pass rate went down" (as if that takes away from the fact that they still are nearly double what we are)

As for big law firms, most don't even think about those either.
The way you view those is how they view public service clinics (no joke, they climb overeachother like a bucket full of crabs for what you would toss away) Most stick to either 1. Going Solo , or, 2. Using it to supplement their other job, since many are well over 30 and already have a job and family (many take up to 5 years to do the degree) or 3. The bucketlist group. It is VERY common to see someone twice the age of the Prof sitting in the classroom talking about how desegregation was like for them. (seriously, not a joke, more common that not actually)

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:50 pm

Huey Freeman wrote:how awesome is the library?


It varies by campus but they tend to be pretty big and tend to keep open until midnight, which can be nice.

That being said if you leave anything unattended it tends to get stolen.....................(not even a joke).

Many of the people you see in there make you lose faith in all mankind and then you realize "oh fuck, and these are going to be lawyers.................."

Graduation was a real treat. When their families showed up it was like an episode of JerrySpringer.
I can't even recall how many "MMMMHHHHHMMMMM" I heard that day. I'd say that around half of the familes appeared to be either on welfare or on parole (saw more than a few GPS ankel devices that day).

Loudspeaker: Please no noise makers during the ceremony (repeats around a hundred times)
Family: (every noise makers known to man) followed by "And they said she wouldn't even finish high school cuz of the baby and the crack, we show them baby girl!"

Although I can't say I was too suprised by that seeing how outside the library when you see a group smoking they tend to be saying "oh he can't be late with that support money again, I'll pretend he hit me " (and actual conversation I heard said outside of our fucking library of law by a third year law student)

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nickb285
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby nickb285 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:02 pm

Cooleytruthsayer wrote:Many of the people you see in there make you lose faith in all mankind and then you realize "oh fuck, and these are going to be lawyers.................."

Graduation was a real treat. When their families showed up it was like an episode of JerrySpringer.
I can't even recall how many "MMMMHHHHHMMMMM" I heard that day. I'd say that around half of the familes appeared to be either on welfare or on parole (saw more than a few GPS ankel devices that day).

Loudspeaker: Please no noise makers during the ceremony (repeats around a hundred times)
Family: (every noise makers known to man) followed by "And they said she wouldn't even finish high school cuz of the baby and the crack, we show them baby girl!"


TBF, this sounds awesome.

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:14 pm

nickb285 wrote:
Cooleytruthsayer wrote:Many of the people you see in there make you lose faith in all mankind and then you realize "oh fuck, and these are going to be lawyers.................."

Graduation was a real treat. When their families showed up it was like an episode of JerrySpringer.
I can't even recall how many "MMMMHHHHHMMMMM" I heard that day. I'd say that around half of the familes appeared to be either on welfare or on parole (saw more than a few GPS ankel devices that day).

Loudspeaker: Please no noise makers during the ceremony (repeats around a hundred times)
Family: (every noise makers known to man) followed by "And they said she wouldn't even finish high school cuz of the baby and the crack, we show them baby girl!"


TBF, this sounds awesome.


I am not saying that it isn't fun to go to the zoo, it just sucks when you suddenly realize which side of the cage you are on is all..............

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Bronte
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Bronte » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:23 pm

Cooleytruthsayer wrote:As for big law firms, most don't even think about those either.
The way you view those is how they view public service clinics (no joke, they climb overeachother like a bucket full of crabs for what you would toss away) Most stick to either 1. Going Solo , or, 2. Using it to supplement their other job, since many are well over 30 and already have a job and family (many take up to 5 years to do the degree) or 3. The bucketlist group. It is VERY common to see someone twice the age of the Prof sitting in the classroom talking about how desegregation was like for them. (seriously, not a joke, more common that not actually)


Interesting what you say about public service clinics. I've always thought these were pretty desirable for people from top schools that want to do public interest. I've done some pro bono work at one in a major city. It seems, like you say, that a majority of the interns are from the local tier four school. But most of the lawyers seem to be from mid-ranked state flagships.

As a side note, to be fair to the students from the tier four school, they seem competent from my limited interactions with them.

Cooleytruthsayer
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cooleytruthsayer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:37 pm

Bronte wrote:
Cooleytruthsayer wrote:As for big law firms, most don't even think about those either.
The way you view those is how they view public service clinics (no joke, they climb overeachother like a bucket full of crabs for what you would toss away) Most stick to either 1. Going Solo , or, 2. Using it to supplement their other job, since many are well over 30 and already have a job and family (many take up to 5 years to do the degree) or 3. The bucketlist group. It is VERY common to see someone twice the age of the Prof sitting in the classroom talking about how desegregation was like for them. (seriously, not a joke, more common that not actually)


Interesting what you say about public service clinics. I've always thought these were pretty desirable for people from top schools that want to do public interest. I've done some pro bono work at one in a major city. It seems, like you say, that a majority of the interns are from the local tier four school. But most of the lawyers seem to be from mid-ranked state flagships.

As a side note, to be fair to the students from the tier four school, they seem competent from my limited interactions with them.


I did a public service probono too and a lot of it is not so much "legal" skill as it is people skills (albeit some legal skills obviously required) For the most part I felt it was more about making the client feel important and then explaining how little we actually could do for them......(limited scope of service, limited funding,etc)

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Cobretti
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Re: Cooley Grad, let it rip.

Postby Cobretti » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:52 pm

With the decreased applicants primarily affecting lower ranked schools like Cooley, how serious is the administration taking it? Does anyone talk about the school actually closing if it gets much worse?




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