Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
2012JayDee
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:49 pm

Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby 2012JayDee » Wed May 30, 2012 5:55 pm

First a few things about me:

1. Just graduated
2. I don't work for admissions.
3. I don't care if you don't like New Jersey, Newark, Rutgers or any combination of the three. None of those things will hurt my feelings (see #1).
4. I have a job at a large national firm (through OCI). I will not mention the firm or anything else about it, except to say, I could not be more happy with my decision to accept the offer.
5. I am studying for the NY/NJ bar exams and decided to procrastinate by offering advice to prospective/newly admitted students. Most of the advice you get on this site (and other prospective students) comes from people that don't know their asses from their elbows and offer mediocre, uninformed, uneducated, biased, irrational, childish, and flat out stupid advice based purely in speculation. My 2¢ is just that. But I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt (see #1).
6. I have no desire to bad mouth any other school or law school program because frankly I don't give a damn (see #1 and #4).

Answers to FAQs:

-Newark is not the safest place in the world. But it isn't Baghdad either. There are silly, petty thefts that happen on campus, but mostly to young undergrads walking around random streets at night. I know of 2 law students that had their vehicles broken into in apartment buildings around Newark, but that could happen anywhere. For the most part I don't know of any law students that have been victimized. Getting back and forth to Newark Penn station is fast and simple. You can take the 10 min walk or take the free shuttle that picks up right behing the law school beginning at 4pm every day. Parking at the school is atrocious. There are decks but they are usually full by 10am.

-In-state tuition was pretty easy to get and maintain when I first started. If you signed up to live on campus you could get it. If you signed a lease for anywhere in NJ for at least 12 months you could get it (and effectively keep it even if you moved).

-Lots of people choose to live on campus. Most of those people come straight from undergrad. Many of them moved off campus after the first year.

-More people seem to live off campus and in surrounding areas to include NYC. The commute to/from the school from areas like Hoboken, Jersey City and NYC is incredibly easy (as would be with any city with access to the NJ Transit).

-The number of people in the 2012 class with jobs is high, very high. I don't know exact numbers.
The graduating class was ~200. I would GUESS 15% have jobs at large (NLJ250) NY/NJ area law firms; 20% are doing State-Level or higher Clerkship (some with follow-on employment); 20% are working at a small firm (10-40 person firms specializing in 1 or 2 areas such as Insurance, Construction, Aviation,Tax, etc.); 25% are doing Public Interest work; 5% are doing government; the rest could be unemployed, doing alternative work, attending graduate school or working in their previous careers. But these are just my best guesses based on small sample sized of my friends, asking a few classmates or taking mental notes of trends from 2L summer and the third year. The employment at graduation is probably 80-85%.

--The salary range for large firms in NY/NJ is about $100-160k. The lower salaries are usually those with offices in areas in which the cost of living is substantially lower, thus, the number itself is not as relevant as a determination of "market salary" because each market is different.
--Clerkships, DA, and other gov't work is usually in the $42-46k range. However, many of those jobs qualify for LRAP (loan repayment assistance program), which means you only have to pay 10% of your salary towards your student loans and if you do that for 10 years the balance of the loan is forgiven. Most public interest jobs probably also fall in this category.

-The administration at the school has the collective mental capacity of bronze medalists at the special olympics. (With the exception of Nicky Fornoratto the Financial Aid administrator, she is absolutely exceptional).

-The school is pretty small compared to other state schools (Average class is 180 people for day time; 50 for evening). That being said competition within the school for jobs is fairly low. On the flip side class offerings is a crap shoot. The school gets a B- in terms of course offerings. Many popular courses are not offered every semester, and the majority of upper level courses are taught in the same block of time forcing you to choose between good classes. Registration is also a nightmare. It happens very late compared to other schools but every year they attempt to do better.

-Fall OCI has been picking up over the last few years. They have not broken the 100 employer mark in a while. 2009-2011 probably brought 75 or so law firm employers to fall OCI. Spring OCI is usually military JAG, tax firms, and smaller firms.
--By comparison Seton Hall has about 500 people per class and has roughly the same number of employers at their OCI. Both schools generally get the exact same employment options for OCI employers. All the NJ firms go to both schools and a handful of NY firms.

-Scholarship $ is reserved for folks with a median or higher LSAT scores and they are not that flexible on awards. It's a state school with a low budget and they just don't have the money to give out.

-The school is on a B/B- curve (it's lower than most other schools). Students complain that it makes the student body look less qualified on paper when compared to other NY-area schools, but the curve isn't going anywhere anytime soon. NOTE: everyone wants to be in the top of the class. Realistically 50% of people will be in the bottom half of the class (think about it). A few people did transfer out after first year. There were a number of people that could have transferred, but did not. The morale of the story is do not attend ANY school with the hopes of being in the top ___% of the class or transferring to a better school. And take heed at any school that requires you maintain a certain GPA or certain rank to keep your scholarship.
--R-N does not rank students at all, ever. They give an award at graduation for the person with the highest GPA. That is the first and only time you will know anyones class rank. You will never know your own class rank, unless you are that person. The school does not calculate GPA. They give you the tools to do it, but it will never be listed on your transcripts. You have to do the math (B in a 3 credit class-- 3.0 x3; A in a 4 credit class-- 3.75 x 4, etc.)

-Write-on competition for journals is allowed for every student regardless of GPA at the end of the 1st year.

-Moot Court is available for everyone during 1L LRW (legal research and writing) and is given based on oral argument + LRW grade.

-Mock Trial (there are multiple opportunities) is available for just about anyone that wants to participate.

-1L required courses for day students:
Fall: Torts, Property, Contracts, Criminal, LRW (16 credits)
Spring: Constitutional, Civil Procedure, LRW, Elective (usually policy based courses or tax or administrative or environmental) (15-16 credits depending on the elective)
--1L Fall Class sizes are usually 60 people for all but 1 small section which is only 30 (LRW is 15)
Some classes may have 90 it really depends on how the administration divides up the sections in that particular year
--1L Spring classes are divided down the middle . 1/2 into one section of Con law/Civ Pro, the other half in the other section of Con Law/Civ Pro (so ~90 per class)

-Most taken upper class elective: Evidence

-Upper level courses are not taught on Friday. Only 1Ls have classes on Fridays. Some professors will elect to hold class 15 minutes longer M-Th and choose to permanently cancel 1L Friday courses. Upper level courses also have the option of adding 15 minutes to class in order to eliminate 1 day of class. This happens with 90% of courses taught at the school.

-Only required elective: Professional Responsibility/Legal Ethics (you must pass with a C or better).
--The NJ bar requires one of these courses in order to be admitted to the bar otherwise you must pass the MPRE. NY does not require that you take an ethics class but requires the MPRE anyway. Most jurisdictions require the MPRE regardless of whether you've taken an ethics/PR course.

If I didn't answer a burning question feel free to ask away. If you want to message me feel free to do that also and I will answer your question without adding your name.

User avatar
hung jury
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:52 am

Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby hung jury » Wed May 30, 2012 7:54 pm

2012JayDee wrote:First a few things about me:

1. Just graduated

2. I don't work for admissions.
3. I don't care if you don't like New Jersey, Newark, Rutgers or any combination of the three. None of those things will hurt my feelings (see #1).
4. I have a job at a large national firm (through OCI). I will not mention the firm or anything else about it, except to say, I could not be more happy with my decision to accept the offer.
5. I am studying for the NY/NJ bar exams and decided to procrastinate by offering advice to prospective/newly admitted students. Most of the advice you get on this site (and other prospective students) comes from people that don't know their asses from their elbows and offer mediocre, uninformed, uneducated, biased, irrational, childish, and flat out stupid advice based purely in speculation. My 2¢ is just that. But I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt (see #1).
6. I have no desire to bad mouth any other school or law school program because frankly I don't give a damn (see #1 and #4).

Answers to FAQs:

-Newark is not the safest place in the world. But it isn't Baghdad either. There are silly, petty thefts that happen on campus, but mostly to young undergrads walking around random streets at night. I know of 2 law students that had their vehicles broken into in apartment buildings around Newark, but that could happen anywhere. For the most part I don't know of any law students that have been victimized. Getting back and forth to Newark Penn station is fast and simple. You can take the 10 min walk or take the free shuttle that picks up right behing the law school beginning at 4pm every day. Parking at the school is atrocious. There are decks but they are usually full by 10am.

-In-state tuition was pretty easy to get and maintain when I first started. If you signed up to live on campus you could get it. If you signed a lease for anywhere in NJ for at least 12 months you could get it (and effectively keep it even if you moved).

-Lots of people choose to live on campus. Most of those people come straight from undergrad. Many of them moved off campus after the first year.

-More people seem to live off campus and in surrounding areas to include NYC. The commute to/from the school from areas like Hoboken, Jersey City and NYC is incredibly easy (as would be with any city with access to the NJ Transit).

-The number of people in the 2012 class with jobs is high, very high. I don't know exact numbers.
The graduating class was ~200. I would GUESS 15% have jobs at large (NLJ250) NY/NJ area law firms; 20% are doing State-Level or higher Clerkship (some with follow-on employment); 20% are working at a small firm (10-40 person firms specializing in 1 or 2 areas such as Insurance, Construction, Aviation,Tax, etc.); 25% are doing Public Interest work; 5% are doing government; the rest could be unemployed, doing alternative work, attending graduate school or working in their previous careers. But these are just my best guesses based on small sample sized of my friends, asking a few classmates or taking mental notes of trends from 2L summer and the third year. The employment at graduation is probably 80-85%.

--The salary range for large firms in NY/NJ is about $100-160k. The lower salaries are usually those with offices in areas in which the cost of living is substantially lower, thus, the number itself is not as relevant as a determination of "market salary" because each market is different.
--Clerkships, DA, and other gov't work is usually in the $42-46k range. However, many of those jobs qualify for LRAP (loan repayment assistance program), which means you only have to pay 10% of your salary towards your student loans and if you do that for 10 years the balance of the loan is forgiven. Most public interest jobs probably also fall in this category.

-The administration at the school has the collective mental capacity of bronze medalists at the special olympics. (With the exception of Nicky Fornoratto the Financial Aid administrator, she is absolutely exceptional).

-The school is pretty small compared to other state schools (Average class is 180 people for day time; 50 for evening). That being said competition within the school for jobs is fairly low. On the flip side class offerings is a crap shoot. The school gets a B- in terms of course offerings. Many popular courses are not offered every semester, and the majority of upper level courses are taught in the same block of time forcing you to choose between good classes. Registration is also a nightmare. It happens very late compared to other schools but every year they attempt to do better.

-Fall OCI has been picking up over the last few years. They have not broken the 100 employer mark in a while. 2009-2011 probably brought 75 or so law firm employers to fall OCI. Spring OCI is usually military JAG, tax firms, and smaller firms.
--By comparison Seton Hall has about 500 people per class and has roughly the same number of employers at their OCI. Both schools generally get the exact same employment options for OCI employers. All the NJ firms go to both schools and a handful of NY firms.

-Scholarship $ is reserved for folks with a median or higher LSAT scores and they are not that flexible on awards. It's a state school with a low budget and they just don't have the money to give out.

-The school is on a B/B- curve (it's lower than most other schools). Students complain that it makes the student body look less qualified on paper when compared to other NY-area schools, but the curve isn't going anywhere anytime soon. NOTE: everyone wants to be in the top of the class. Realistically 50% of people will be in the bottom half of the class (think about it). A few people did transfer out after first year. There were a number of people that could have transferred, but did not. The morale of the story is do not attend ANY school with the hopes of being in the top ___% of the class or transferring to a better school. And take heed at any school that requires you maintain a certain GPA or certain rank to keep your scholarship.
--R-N does not rank students at all, ever. They give an award at graduation for the person with the highest GPA. That is the first and only time you will know anyones class rank. You will never know your own class rank, unless you are that person. The school does not calculate GPA. They give you the tools to do it, but it will never be listed on your transcripts. You have to do the math (B in a 3 credit class-- 3.0 x3; A in a 4 credit class-- 3.75 x 4, etc.)

-Write-on competition for journals is allowed for every student regardless of GPA at the end of the 1st year.

-Moot Court is available for everyone during 1L LRW (legal research and writing) and is given based on oral argument + LRW grade.

-Mock Trial (there are multiple opportunities) is available for just about anyone that wants to participate.

-1L required courses for day students:
Fall: Torts, Property, Contracts, Criminal, LRW (16 credits)
Spring: Constitutional, Civil Procedure, LRW, Elective (usually policy based courses or tax or administrative or environmental) (15-16 credits depending on the elective)
--1L Fall Class sizes are usually 60 people for all but 1 small section which is only 30 (LRW is 15)
Some classes may have 90 it really depends on how the administration divides up the sections in that particular year
--1L Spring classes are divided down the middle . 1/2 into one section of Con law/Civ Pro, the other half in the other section of Con Law/Civ Pro (so ~90 per class)

-Most taken upper class elective: Evidence

-Upper level courses are not taught on Friday. Only 1Ls have classes on Fridays. Some professors will elect to hold class 15 minutes longer M-Th and choose to permanently cancel 1L Friday courses. Upper level courses also have the option of adding 15 minutes to class in order to eliminate 1 day of class. This happens with 90% of courses taught at the school.

-Only required elective: Professional Responsibility/Legal Ethics (you must pass with a C or better).
--The NJ bar requires one of these courses in order to be admitted to the bar otherwise you must pass the MPRE. NY does not require that you take an ethics class but requires the MPRE anyway. Most jurisdictions require the MPRE regardless of whether you've taken an ethics/PR course.

If I didn't answer a burning question feel free to ask away. If you want to message me feel free to do that also and I will answer your question without adding your name.

2012JayDee
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:49 pm

Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby 2012JayDee » Wed May 30, 2012 8:06 pm

I'm sure you'll make a great classmate.

User avatar
Lawst
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby Lawst » Wed May 30, 2012 8:09 pm

hung jury wrote:
2012JayDee wrote:First a few things about me:

1. Just graduated

2. I don't work for admissions.
3. I don't care if you don't like New Jersey, Newark, Rutgers or any combination of the three. None of those things will hurt my feelings (see #1).
4. I have a job at a large national firm (through OCI). I will not mention the firm or anything else about it, except to say, I could not be more happy with my decision to accept the offer.
5. I am studying for the NY/NJ bar exams and decided to procrastinate by offering advice to prospective/newly admitted students. Most of the advice you get on this site (and other prospective students) comes from people that don't know their asses from their elbows and offer mediocre, uninformed, uneducated, biased, irrational, childish, and flat out stupid advice based purely in speculation. My 2¢ is just that. But I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt (see #1).
6. I have no desire to bad mouth any other school or law school program because frankly I don't give a damn (see #1 and #4).

Answers to FAQs:

-Newark is not the safest place in the world. But it isn't Baghdad either. There are silly, petty thefts that happen on campus, but mostly to young undergrads walking around random streets at night. I know of 2 law students that had their vehicles broken into in apartment buildings around Newark, but that could happen anywhere. For the most part I don't know of any law students that have been victimized. Getting back and forth to Newark Penn station is fast and simple. You can take the 10 min walk or take the free shuttle that picks up right behing the law school beginning at 4pm every day. Parking at the school is atrocious. There are decks but they are usually full by 10am.

-In-state tuition was pretty easy to get and maintain when I first started. If you signed up to live on campus you could get it. If you signed a lease for anywhere in NJ for at least 12 months you could get it (and effectively keep it even if you moved).

-Lots of people choose to live on campus. Most of those people come straight from undergrad. Many of them moved off campus after the first year.

-More people seem to live off campus and in surrounding areas to include NYC. The commute to/from the school from areas like Hoboken, Jersey City and NYC is incredibly easy (as would be with any city with access to the NJ Transit).

-The number of people in the 2012 class with jobs is high, very high. I don't know exact numbers.
The graduating class was ~200. I would GUESS 15% have jobs at large (NLJ250) NY/NJ area law firms; 20% are doing State-Level or higher Clerkship (some with follow-on employment); 20% are working at a small firm (10-40 person firms specializing in 1 or 2 areas such as Insurance, Construction, Aviation,Tax, etc.); 25% are doing Public Interest work; 5% are doing government; the rest could be unemployed, doing alternative work, attending graduate school or working in their previous careers. But these are just my best guesses based on small sample sized of my friends, asking a few classmates or taking mental notes of trends from 2L summer and the third year. The employment at graduation is probably 80-85%.

--The salary range for large firms in NY/NJ is about $100-160k. The lower salaries are usually those with offices in areas in which the cost of living is substantially lower, thus, the number itself is not as relevant as a determination of "market salary" because each market is different.
--Clerkships, DA, and other gov't work is usually in the $42-46k range. However, many of those jobs qualify for LRAP (loan repayment assistance program), which means you only have to pay 10% of your salary towards your student loans and if you do that for 10 years the balance of the loan is forgiven. Most public interest jobs probably also fall in this category.

-The administration at the school has the collective mental capacity of bronze medalists at the special olympics. (With the exception of Nicky Fornoratto the Financial Aid administrator, she is absolutely exceptional).

-The school is pretty small compared to other state schools (Average class is 180 people for day time; 50 for evening). That being said competition within the school for jobs is fairly low. On the flip side class offerings is a crap shoot. The school gets a B- in terms of course offerings. Many popular courses are not offered every semester, and the majority of upper level courses are taught in the same block of time forcing you to choose between good classes. Registration is also a nightmare. It happens very late compared to other schools but every year they attempt to do better.

-Fall OCI has been picking up over the last few years. They have not broken the 100 employer mark in a while. 2009-2011 probably brought 75 or so law firm employers to fall OCI. Spring OCI is usually military JAG, tax firms, and smaller firms.
--By comparison Seton Hall has about 500 people per class and has roughly the same number of employers at their OCI. Both schools generally get the exact same employment options for OCI employers. All the NJ firms go to both schools and a handful of NY firms.

-Scholarship $ is reserved for folks with a median or higher LSAT scores and they are not that flexible on awards. It's a state school with a low budget and they just don't have the money to give out.

-The school is on a B/B- curve (it's lower than most other schools). Students complain that it makes the student body look less qualified on paper when compared to other NY-area schools, but the curve isn't going anywhere anytime soon. NOTE: everyone wants to be in the top of the class. Realistically 50% of people will be in the bottom half of the class (think about it). A few people did transfer out after first year. There were a number of people that could have transferred, but did not. The morale of the story is do not attend ANY school with the hopes of being in the top ___% of the class or transferring to a better school. And take heed at any school that requires you maintain a certain GPA or certain rank to keep your scholarship.
--R-N does not rank students at all, ever. They give an award at graduation for the person with the highest GPA. That is the first and only time you will know anyones class rank. You will never know your own class rank, unless you are that person. The school does not calculate GPA. They give you the tools to do it, but it will never be listed on your transcripts. You have to do the math (B in a 3 credit class-- 3.0 x3; A in a 4 credit class-- 3.75 x 4, etc.)

-Write-on competition for journals is allowed for every student regardless of GPA at the end of the 1st year.

-Moot Court is available for everyone during 1L LRW (legal research and writing) and is given based on oral argument + LRW grade.

-Mock Trial (there are multiple opportunities) is available for just about anyone that wants to participate.

-1L required courses for day students:
Fall: Torts, Property, Contracts, Criminal, LRW (16 credits)
Spring: Constitutional, Civil Procedure, LRW, Elective (usually policy based courses or tax or administrative or environmental) (15-16 credits depending on the elective)
--1L Fall Class sizes are usually 60 people for all but 1 small section which is only 30 (LRW is 15)
Some classes may have 90 it really depends on how the administration divides up the sections in that particular year
--1L Spring classes are divided down the middle . 1/2 into one section of Con law/Civ Pro, the other half in the other section of Con Law/Civ Pro (so ~90 per class)

-Most taken upper class elective: Evidence

-Upper level courses are not taught on Friday. Only 1Ls have classes on Fridays. Some professors will elect to hold class 15 minutes longer M-Th and choose to permanently cancel 1L Friday courses. Upper level courses also have the option of adding 15 minutes to class in order to eliminate 1 day of class. This happens with 90% of courses taught at the school.

-Only required elective: Professional Responsibility/Legal Ethics (you must pass with a C or better).
--The NJ bar requires one of these courses in order to be admitted to the bar otherwise you must pass the MPRE. NY does not require that you take an ethics class but requires the MPRE anyway. Most jurisdictions require the MPRE regardless of whether you've taken an ethics/PR course.

If I didn't answer a burning question feel free to ask away. If you want to message me feel free to do that also and I will answer your question without adding your name.


Um, lol? OP's details sound legit, though I am skeptical of the employment numbers. That could even be because the OP, as one of the smarter ones, has equally smart friends that he/she is polling who might be doing better than the bottom half of the class in finding jobs.

User avatar
hung jury
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:52 am

Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby hung jury » Thu May 31, 2012 4:16 am

I admit I didn't actually read past "I don't work for admissions"--it was a playful jab at the line being the equivalent of "some of my best friends are X"--but now that I have it actually sounds mostly legit with a survivorship bias interpretation of people getting jobs out of RN. And on that I'll trust the numbers here: 164/258 students with JD required jobs and 10% of grads completely unemployed for the class of 2010: --LinkRemoved--.
And, OP, I bet I'll make a great classmate too, thanks for noticing.

2012JayDee
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:49 pm

Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby 2012JayDee » Thu May 31, 2012 11:40 am

The point of my post wasn't to boast or brag about employment prospects from Rutgers. Frankly, it's nothing to brag about. It is what it is.
2L year for our class was filled with lots of panic and dispair because 80% of people that actually attempted OCI completely struck out. There is a large percentage of the class that doesn't bid on OCI because of various reasons, such as: 1) they don't think they have the grades 2) they aren't in town 3) they don't want to do firm work. So of the 200 or so that could participate in OCI I think only half that actually did so. Possibly even less than half. I don't keep up with statistics, and I'm guessing that other than administrators anyone else that is throwing out statistics (for anything) is making them up based on best guess.

The school has a breakdown of the numbers they've collected from the class of 2010. I do know that the class of 2012 did a little better with OCI than the class of 2010, because a number of those students were still suffering from rescinded offers and withdrawn summer associate classes. But the chart account for every single graduate in the class by industry.

--LinkRemoved--

I couldn't see the PDF you posed @hung jury but it's probably based on this information. IMHO, I think the school at least attempts to give realistic numbers of employment. They don't give general percentages. They tell you exactly how many people are in the class, exactly how many people are employed, what size firms they work for, and how many are unemployed, etc. It's much more beneficial for someone to look at those numbers and gauge the employment rates than to get them from my post. My numbers were guesses and like I said based purely on a small sample size.

A lot of people like to compare Rutgers to Seton Hall because of the proximity. I would say that both schools are in Newark and after that is about where the similarities end. R-N is a public institution, with a heavy focus on public interest, clerkships, government work, and then maybe private practice. The school doesn't put a lot of money or effort into anything, especially career services. It's arguably one of the worst career services I've ever seen. Career services says more than 100 firms participate in OCI. That is technically true. But as I said in my first post only about 70-80 firms actually come to the campus. The other 20-25 just collect resumes. At one point those resume collecting firms did come to R-N to interview but now they don't have to. Firms like Sullivan & Cromwell, Proskeur Rose, Ropes & Gray... they really don't need to send anyone because they likely aren't going to hire from the school. There are Rutgers grads in those places so it's not unfathomable, but in these times, when they can be ultra selective they're not choosing Rutgers or Seton Hall they're choosing Columbia or NYU. Rutgers has about 200 people per class (day and evening) Seton Hall has almost 600 (only day). So Rutgers sending 30% of people into clerkships means we sent about 60 people. For Seton Hall to have those same statistics that means they sent more than 150 people into clerkships... what's more realistic? But of course if they put 2% in their employment statistics it would look ridiculous compared to Rutgers. But people don't realize the size differences of the two schools is so significant.

Some people that struck out at OCI did end up going to job fairs through Vault or certain regional associations or club affiliations and they actually did strike up good jobs. A large number of people got jobs using faculty at the school. Because the school is so small most people end up making really strong connections to 1 or 2 faculty members and some faculty are very well connected. Most of the people that do government and public interest work use faculty networking to get jobs. They apply and then have someone make a few phone calls. A lot of people didn't find work until 3L year and some found work just a week or so before graduation. Obviously, some are still looking for work and some are applying for jobs that require admittance to the bar.

I would say the employment success rate of the school has more to do with students diligently seeking employment. OCI gets about 20% of the students jobs and the rest just keep at it until they land something. Rutgers does have a large alumni base and they span across a lot of industries. There's always some kind of panel or forum at the school with graduates who come and speak and are available to answer questions and network. But it's really up to the students to take advantage of those opportunities and make something of them.

subie
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby subie » Thu May 31, 2012 11:54 am

Just want to say that R-N is one of the schools I'm considering, so your posts are very informative and I appreciate you taking the time to write all this out. I'm a non-trad though and would be going to the evening program. I'm trying to decide if law school is for me and if I want to take out loans at this point, but I will take the LSAT and see what happens.

User avatar
superbloom
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:49 pm

Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby superbloom » Thu May 31, 2012 1:14 pm

I will be attending in the fall. When I sat in on a class this spring, I was suprised by the environment. It was unusually lax, and students in the class seemed to have a difficult time understanding a concept that didn't seem complicated to me. I assume this was due to it being the Friday before spring break (more than half the class didnt even show up). This attitude is in contrast to other schools I visited, but I may have just visited on the wrong day. R-N appeared to me to be a lot like UG in contrast to other schools I visited where it appeared students took things much more seriously (all higher ranked, if that matters). Basically, my question is if this is an adequate evaluation of the school environment in your eyes.

Also, from your experiences, do you think having ties to NJ is important to potential employers? I'm originally from New England, but my long time girlfriend is from NJ (she does have a father who is a successful lawyer, solo though). I worry that this might not convince potential employers that I'm committed to staying in the area (as much as I love my home state, there's no way I'm going back, job market is abysmal).

One last question, based upon your experiences, how "prepared" are incoming 1Ls? TLS has helped me tremendously, and I don't want to know what my perceptions going into 1L would be without TLS. Of course I've yet to start and of course I know that all my peers will be around as intelligent as I, making predictions of grades as an 0L stupid, but how many students start 1L truly understanding how hard one needs to work?

2012JayDee
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:49 pm

Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby 2012JayDee » Thu May 31, 2012 4:30 pm

superbloom wrote:I will be attending in the fall. When I sat in on a class this spring, I was suprised by the environment. It was unusually lax, and students in the class seemed to have a difficult time understanding a concept that didn't seem complicated to me. I assume this was due to it being the Friday before spring break (more than half the class didnt even show up). This attitude is in contrast to other schools I visited, but I may have just visited on the wrong day. R-N appeared to me to be a lot like UG in contrast to other schools I visited where it appeared students took things much more seriously (all higher ranked, if that matters). Basically, my question is if this is an adequate evaluation of the school environment in your eyes.

Also, from your experiences, do you think having ties to NJ is important to potential employers? I'm originally from New England, but my long time girlfriend is from NJ (she does have a father who is a successful lawyer, solo though). I worry that this might not convince potential employers that I'm committed to staying in the area (as much as I love my home state, there's no way I'm going back, job market is abysmal).

One last question, based upon your experiences, how "prepared" are incoming 1Ls? TLS has helped me tremendously, and I don't want to know what my perceptions going into 1L would be without TLS. Of course I've yet to start and of course I know that all my peers will be around as intelligent as I, making predictions of grades as an 0L stupid, but how many students start 1L truly understanding how hard one needs to work?


1. Friday classes suck!!! Only 1Ls have them and in the spring it's either Con law or Civ pro. Neither of those classes are very interesting, neither of those classes is better than being at home on a friday afternoon or out enjoying the weather. After about the first week or two of class people are usually not that wound up about classes. Afterall, the 1Ls have completed an entire semester of fall classes, and by the time you sat in on this class they were probably at least more than 1/2 way through this semester. So most of them probably just didn't care. You will soon realize that you're going to teach yourself most of the law you need for the test. Class is just something you have to attend because the school requires attendance. Most people were barely conscious during my Civ Pro class because the professor that taught it was about as interesting as mold in a dark, damp basement. The atmosphere of the school as a whole is very relaxed. In a class of 60 people 2 are overly competitive gunners. There is very little overt douchey-ness in the school. People are usually rather cordial to one another. In the upperlevel classes where professors no longer cold call you will learn to appreciate the gunners. They keep everyone else from being called on.

2. Having ties to NJ if you want to work for NJ firms is VERY important. NJ firms are very self-conscious. They know that 1/2 the new associates would probably rather be working in large, probably more prestigious NY firms. Although, the quality of life at firms at NJ is probably better in most cases, the hours tend to be slightly more reasonable, the pay is good, the work is high quality, and the firms are reputable. The firms still know that most students in law school have an idea in their heads about drudging away in some Wall street office building. So, they always want to try and feel which students are truly dedicated to staying in NJ and which ones would really rather be working on the other side of the Hudson. But the truth is if you're truly qualified and you fit into the firm well and they want to hire you then your ties to NJ can only help. If they're on the fence about you and it's between you and someone else, and you don't have any ties they may pick a person who has ties. Examples such as "my girlfriend lives in NJ" is less impressive than, "I researched a number of firms and yours seem to have the practice areas, culture, and location I prefer."

3. There is no such thing as a prepared 1L. I don't know what you've learned form this board, but more than likely it's just stuff that has relaxed a few of your fears. You haven't learned anything of substance and that is what you'll need to get through law school. The stuff you've learned from this board is the equivalent of a 1L who has a parent or sibling that went to law school. They know what to expect--sort of. Bu the truth is you won't really know what to expect until you get there and you actually have to perform. The great thing about that is that everyone is equally unprepared on the first day. Everyone is nervous, everyone is anxious and everyone feels like they're not prepared.

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby Bigbub75 » Thu May 31, 2012 10:45 pm

2012JayDee wrote:First a few things about me:

1. Just graduated
2. I don't work for admissions.
3. I don't care if you don't like New Jersey, Newark, Rutgers or any combination of the three. None of those things will hurt my feelings (see #1).
4. I have a job at a large national firm (through OCI). I will not mention the firm or anything else about it, except to say, I could not be more happy with my decision to accept the offer.
5. I am studying for the NY/NJ bar exams and decided to procrastinate by offering advice to prospective/newly admitted students. Most of the advice you get on this site (and other prospective students) comes from people that don't know their asses from their elbows and offer mediocre, uninformed, uneducated, biased, irrational, childish, and flat out stupid advice based purely in speculation. My 2¢ is just that. But I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt (see #1).
6. I have no desire to bad mouth any other school or law school program because frankly I don't give a damn (see #1 and #4).

Answers to FAQs:

-Newark is not the safest place in the world. But it isn't Baghdad either. There are silly, petty thefts that happen on campus, but mostly to young undergrads walking around random streets at night. I know of 2 law students that had their vehicles broken into in apartment buildings around Newark, but that could happen anywhere. For the most part I don't know of any law students that have been victimized. Getting back and forth to Newark Penn station is fast and simple. You can take the 10 min walk or take the free shuttle that picks up right behing the law school beginning at 4pm every day. Parking at the school is atrocious. There are decks but they are usually full by 10am.

-In-state tuition was pretty easy to get and maintain when I first started. If you signed up to live on campus you could get it. If you signed a lease for anywhere in NJ for at least 12 months you could get it (and effectively keep it even if you moved).

-Lots of people choose to live on campus. Most of those people come straight from undergrad. Many of them moved off campus after the first year.

-More people seem to live off campus and in surrounding areas to include NYC. The commute to/from the school from areas like Hoboken, Jersey City and NYC is incredibly easy (as would be with any city with access to the NJ Transit).

-The number of people in the 2012 class with jobs is high, very high. I don't know exact numbers.
The graduating class was ~200. I would GUESS 15% have jobs at large (NLJ250) NY/NJ area law firms; 20% are doing State-Level or higher Clerkship (some with follow-on employment); 20% are working at a small firm (10-40 person firms specializing in 1 or 2 areas such as Insurance, Construction, Aviation,Tax, etc.); 25% are doing Public Interest work; 5% are doing government; the rest could be unemployed, doing alternative work, attending graduate school or working in their previous careers. But these are just my best guesses based on small sample sized of my friends, asking a few classmates or taking mental notes of trends from 2L summer and the third year. The employment at graduation is probably 80-85%.

--The salary range for large firms in NY/NJ is about $100-160k. The lower salaries are usually those with offices in areas in which the cost of living is substantially lower, thus, the number itself is not as relevant as a determination of "market salary" because each market is different.
--Clerkships, DA, and other gov't work is usually in the $42-46k range. However, many of those jobs qualify for LRAP (loan repayment assistance program), which means you only have to pay 10% of your salary towards your student loans and if you do that for 10 years the balance of the loan is forgiven. Most public interest jobs probably also fall in this category.

-The administration at the school has the collective mental capacity of bronze medalists at the special olympics. (With the exception of Nicky Fornoratto the Financial Aid administrator, she is absolutely exceptional).

-The school is pretty small compared to other state schools (Average class is 180 people for day time; 50 for evening). That being said competition within the school for jobs is fairly low. On the flip side class offerings is a crap shoot. The school gets a B- in terms of course offerings. Many popular courses are not offered every semester, and the majority of upper level courses are taught in the same block of time forcing you to choose between good classes. Registration is also a nightmare. It happens very late compared to other schools but every year they attempt to do better.

-Fall OCI has been picking up over the last few years. They have not broken the 100 employer mark in a while. 2009-2011 probably brought 75 or so law firm employers to fall OCI. Spring OCI is usually military JAG, tax firms, and smaller firms.
--By comparison Seton Hall has about 500 people per class and has roughly the same number of employers at their OCI. Both schools generally get the exact same employment options for OCI employers. All the NJ firms go to both schools and a handful of NY firms.

-Scholarship $ is reserved for folks with a median or higher LSAT scores and they are not that flexible on awards. It's a state school with a low budget and they just don't have the money to give out.

-The school is on a B/B- curve (it's lower than most other schools). Students complain that it makes the student body look less qualified on paper when compared to other NY-area schools, but the curve isn't going anywhere anytime soon. NOTE: everyone wants to be in the top of the class. Realistically 50% of people will be in the bottom half of the class (think about it). A few people did transfer out after first year. There were a number of people that could have transferred, but did not. The morale of the story is do not attend ANY school with the hopes of being in the top ___% of the class or transferring to a better school. And take heed at any school that requires you maintain a certain GPA or certain rank to keep your scholarship.
--R-N does not rank students at all, ever. They give an award at graduation for the person with the highest GPA. That is the first and only time you will know anyones class rank. You will never know your own class rank, unless you are that person. The school does not calculate GPA. They give you the tools to do it, but it will never be listed on your transcripts. You have to do the math (B in a 3 credit class-- 3.0 x3; A in a 4 credit class-- 3.75 x 4, etc.)

-Write-on competition for journals is allowed for every student regardless of GPA at the end of the 1st year.

-Moot Court is available for everyone during 1L LRW (legal research and writing) and is given based on oral argument + LRW grade.

-Mock Trial (there are multiple opportunities) is available for just about anyone that wants to participate.

-1L required courses for day students:
Fall: Torts, Property, Contracts, Criminal, LRW (16 credits)
Spring: Constitutional, Civil Procedure, LRW, Elective (usually policy based courses or tax or administrative or environmental) (15-16 credits depending on the elective)
--1L Fall Class sizes are usually 60 people for all but 1 small section which is only 30 (LRW is 15)
Some classes may have 90 it really depends on how the administration divides up the sections in that particular year
--1L Spring classes are divided down the middle . 1/2 into one section of Con law/Civ Pro, the other half in the other section of Con Law/Civ Pro (so ~90 per class)

-Most taken upper class elective: Evidence

-Upper level courses are not taught on Friday. Only 1Ls have classes on Fridays. Some professors will elect to hold class 15 minutes longer M-Th and choose to permanently cancel 1L Friday courses. Upper level courses also have the option of adding 15 minutes to class in order to eliminate 1 day of class. This happens with 90% of courses taught at the school.

-Only required elective: Professional Responsibility/Legal Ethics (you must pass with a C or better).
--The NJ bar requires one of these courses in order to be admitted to the bar otherwise you must pass the MPRE. NY does not require that you take an ethics class but requires the MPRE anyway. Most jurisdictions require the MPRE regardless of whether you've taken an ethics/PR course.

If I didn't answer a burning question feel free to ask away. If you want to message me feel free to do that also and I will answer your question without adding your name.


Thanks for posting. I am actually a current student (soon to be 3LE) at RU-Newark and had a few questions.

I will be participating in OCI this summer. I'm a URM, roughly 3.45 gpa with about 8 years of prior work experience (financial services). I did write-on but I won't find out those results for another month, I am hoping I at least made a secondary journal. How much should I rely on OCI being that only about 20% get jobs through it? Do you think I stand a good chance landing something based on your experience?

Did you mass mail at all? I am planning on reaching out to several NY firms that don't attend OCI I am just wondering how much time and effort should I put in. I wonder if students from RU have success with mass mailing.

Any "easy A" classes you can recommend? With two more years to go, I would like to get my GPA as high as possible to have a better chance of graduating with honors. Even though RU doesn't rank, I figure I am just outside of the top 20% or so,

Thanks for doing this. Good luck with your studies!

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby Beeg12 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:32 am

Are there any convenient exercise facilities near the law school? trying to get a routine hammered down and the only gym near where I live in Newport is insanely expensive.

2012JayDee
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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby 2012JayDee » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:06 pm

Beeg12 wrote:Are there any convenient exercise facilities near the law school? trying to get a routine hammered down and the only gym near where I live in Newport is insanely expensive.



The Golden Dome is the campus' gym. It's the gym that is paid for by your student activity fees so you have complete access. It's just down the block from the school a 2 min walk and right near the Light Rail station. Other than that, no.

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby 2012JayDee » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:05 pm

Few Questions I've been asked

-Does Rutgers rank it's students?
A: No. Rutgers does not rank it's students at all. You don't get a number or a percentage. Employers will not receive a class rank either. You are also not supposed to list a class rank on your resume.
Note: Employers that recruit at Rutgers already know the school doesn't rank and don't expect you to submit a class rank. If you submit a rank to an employer that knows the school doesn't rank you've likely set yourself up for an automatic denial.

-How does one calculate GPA? (Don't hold me accountable for the actual math here)
A: The school will not automatically calculate your GPA at the end of a semester. They will however, provide you with the tools you need to do so. It's a fairly simple formula. Multiply the number of credits by the points allowed for a specific letter grade and divide by the total number of credits
Ex. A+=4 A=3.75 A-=3.5
If you took 9 credits, a 4 credit class with an A; A 3 credit class with an A+ and a 2 credit class with an A- you would calculate your GPA as 4x3.75 (15) + 3x4 (12) + 2x 3.5 (7) =34
Divide 34 by the total number of credits taken (9) and your GPA is a 3.78 rounded.

-Who can participate in OCI?
A: Any 2L/3LE, 3L/4LE ("E" is a part time students in the third or fourth of four years) that has completed the mandatory 1L curriculum. 1L full-time or part time students may not participate in OCI. Fall OCI occurs in the mid-late August before the fall semester starts and continues until Late Sept/Early Oct.
Note: This is the guidance from NALP on 1L hiring:
D. Summer Employment Provisions for First Year Students

Law schools should not offer career services to first-semester first year law students prior to November 1 except in the case of part-time students who may be given assistance in seeking positions during the school term.
Prospective employers and first year law students should not initiate contact with one another and employers should not interview or make offers to first year students before December 1.
All offers to first year students for summer employment should remain open for at least two weeks after the date made.

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superbloom
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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby superbloom » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:34 pm

Do you find that Rutgers's practice of not ranking students frustrates potential employers? Say an employer generally looks for applicants in the top 10% of their class, how (in your best guess) would said employer look at an applicant from R-N?

Also, is there any way of guessing one's rank or having a fair sense of where one stands?

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby Easy-E » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:11 pm

Thanks for taking the time to post. Lifelong NJ resident with #s that could get be a nice amount of money from Rutgers, so it's always been somewhat of an insurance policy. If I can't break the T-14, R-U will most likely be my destination.

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby 2012JayDee » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:33 pm

superbloom wrote:Do you find that Rutgers's practice of not ranking students frustrates potential employers? Say an employer generally looks for applicants in the top 10% of their class, how (in your best guess) would said employer look at an applicant from R-N?

Also, is there any way of guessing one's rank or having a fair sense of where one stands?


Employers have been recruiting at Rutgers for decades. They know what the curve is and they know what kind of GPAs put students in the top 1/2 or 1/4 of a class. It's not a perfect forumla and obviously they only get a small sample size and mostly it's self selection. Few people who are below the median will even attempt OCI. You are not guaranteed any interviews. You must be pre-selected by every firm in order to get an interview. Most people below the median don't even bother to apply because they feel the effort required is not going to be worth the time and they think they'll likely get rejected anyway (this is for the most part true if you have a low GPA and nothing else in your resume that helps).

I don't think employers make it a point to bring up the fact that the school doesn't rank. There would be no point in expressing that to the student. Plus, by the time you're sitting in front of an interviewer they've already gotten your resume, writing sample and transcripts. Employers have a target number of callbacks they plan to give for every school. So you're not really competing for spots among schools that do rank. You're competing for spots among other people that applied to that job at Rutgers. It's a really small pool of applicants. I saw the same 40-50 people during fall OCI. At least half of those got jobs through fall OCI.

I know people that got screener interviews with firms that said they prefer top 10% of the class and they did not have a GPA that could even be considered top 10% to a reasonable person, but they still managed to get a spot. The same for firms that prefer journal or moot court. Only a few firms require a baseline GPA (according to the application instructions) but even then there's nothing to keep you from applying. They rarely ever require a class rank or class percentage just prefer one. They may have an internal minimum but in terms of rank/percentage they just have to go by the self-reported GPA (and transcripts for validation).

It's tough to rank yourself. If you have a 2.7 you're below median. If you have a 3.0 you're at median. If you have a 3.3 you're doing well. If you have a 3.5 you're doing pretty good. If you have a 3.7 you're doing great. Not everyone in the school is shooting for a 4.0 some people choose to balance working or interning with school work and are satisfied with a strong "B" because they plan to go into a field that weighs grades less heavily. After 2L OCI (after 1L grades) most people stop gunning so hard for A's. There are a few people that cling on to the hope they'll land a job with a large firm through 3L OCI so they work for A's until the very end or they're just truly high achieving students who want a high GPA. But you'll find a lot of people really relax about grades in 2L and 3L year. People start to focus more on practical experience or working in a clinic or interning with judges. At graduation most of the people that graduated with honors were Part time students.

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby Easy-E » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:07 am

How difficult would you say it would be to maintain a high GPA (obviously no one can count on it, but just curious)?

What organizations did you find best for networking?

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby 2012JayDee » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:27 pm

emarxnj wrote:How difficult would you say it would be to maintain a high GPA (obviously no one can count on it, but just curious)?

What organizations did you find best for networking?



The curve at Rutgers is pretty harsh. It can be as low as 2.9 or as high as 3.1
So if you get a 3.0 you're cruising down the middle of the road--at most other schools this would practically be failing out. Which means that if you get 1/2 B's and 1/2 B+ in your first semester you are solidly above the median.

So, I would say you have a pretty good chance of having a B/B+ average but you will have a difficult chance to have a high B+/A average. But if you do get a 3.5 or better your chances at OCI pretty much sky rocket. If you're in the 3.1-3.3 range you're going to be competing against everyone else in that range, which still strangely is only a small percentage of people.

Also it will come down to a a bit of luck. Some professors give out A+ in 1L classes and some don't. Which means that your professor could keep you from having a better grade because she just doesn't give out that grade (assuming you had the best grade to begin with). Some professors live in the B-range. Usually your small section professor will give out a B- on the low end a B+ on the high end. If you didn't do well B- if you did really well B+ everyone else gets a B. They may give the one student that just blew the test out of the water an A, but the test likely doesn't allow for anyone to just blow it out of the water--hence the B's.

Anecdotally, at graduation only a small number of students graduated with honors and of those only 2 or 3 graduated above cum laude. Since cum lade/maga/summa is designated by the school it's fixed at a certain GPA. Let's say for example 3.5/3.7/3.9 If 20 people graduate with honors 16 were cum laude, 3 were magna and 1 was summa (those aren't the actual numbers). So the overall GPA of the school is relatively low, compared to other law schools and definitely compared to other graduate/professional schools. But you also have to account for the fact that after 1L people don't try to maintain such a high GPA and are likely to settle for B's (or even C's by 3L)

Organizations:
All of the student minority organizations are open to anyone in the school. In fact the executive boards of many of the ethnic organizations are filled with non-minority students. Each club hosts a number of school event for networking with lawyer and judges and the minority organizations events awards students scholarships. There is usually one big fall event and one big spring event. Student participate heavily in each event. 1Ls are often just serving as representatives in student groups because it's too hard to do much more than attend a meeting as a 1L. You'll normally just set up tables and chair for events or register guest. 2L primarily hold all of the officer and executive positions. 3Ls usually serve as reps or mentors for 2Ls. There's so many groups I can't even begin to name them but there's something for absolutely everybody. It's not uncommon for 1Ls to be reps in more than 1 group but you don't have to be a board member of any group to participate in the events. If you want to network just show up to any event where legal professionals will be in attendance. There will be about a dozen a week (with free food and alcohol, ftw).

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby Easy-E » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:35 pm

2012JayDee wrote:
emarxnj wrote:How difficult would you say it would be to maintain a high GPA (obviously no one can count on it, but just curious)?

What organizations did you find best for networking?



The curve at Rutgers is pretty harsh. It can be as low as 2.9 or as high as 3.1
So if you get a 3.0 you're cruising down the middle of the road--at most other schools this would practically be failing out. Which means that if you get 1/2 B's and 1/2 B+ in your first semester you are solidly above the median.

So, I would say you have a pretty good chance of having a B/B+ average but you will have a difficult chance to have a high B+/A average. But if you do get a 3.5 or better your chances at OCI pretty much sky rocket. If you're in the 3.1-3.3 range you're going to be competing against everyone else in that range, which still strangely is only a small percentage of people.

Also it will come down to a a bit of luck. Some professors give out A+ in 1L classes and some don't. Which means that your professor could keep you from having a better grade because she just doesn't give out that grade (assuming you had the best grade to begin with). Some professors live in the B-range. Usually your small section professor will give out a B- on the low end a B+ on the high end. If you didn't do well B- if you did really well B+ everyone else gets a B. They may give the one student that just blew the test out of the water an A, but the test likely doesn't allow for anyone to just blow it out of the water--hence the B's.

Anecdotally, at graduation only a small number of students graduated with honors and of those only 2 or 3 graduated above cum laude. Since cum lade/maga/summa is designated by the school it's fixed at a certain GPA. Let's say for example 3.5/3.7/3.9 If 20 people graduate with honors 16 were cum laude, 3 were magna and 1 was summa (those aren't the actual numbers). So the overall GPA of the school is relatively low, compared to other law schools and definitely compared to other graduate/professional schools. But you also have to account for the fact that after 1L people don't try to maintain such a high GPA and are likely to settle for B's (or even C's by 3L)

Organizations:
All of the student minority organizations are open to anyone in the school. In fact the executive boards of many of the ethnic organizations are filled with non-minority students. Each club hosts a number of school event for networking with lawyer and judges and the minority organizations events awards students scholarships. There is usually one big fall event and one big spring event. Student participate heavily in each event. 1Ls are often just serving as representatives in student groups because it's too hard to do much more than attend a meeting as a 1L. You'll normally just set up tables and chair for events or register guest. 2L primarily hold all of the officer and executive positions. 3Ls usually serve as reps or mentors for 2Ls. There's so many groups I can't even begin to name them but there's something for absolutely everybody. It's not uncommon for 1Ls to be reps in more than 1 group but you don't have to be a board member of any group to participate in the events. If you want to network just show up to any event where legal professionals will be in attendance. There will be about a dozen a week (with free food and alcohol, ftw).


Good to know, thanks!

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby superbloom » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:00 pm

Sounds rough. What are common options for 1L and 2L summers? I assume that the age of paid 1L summers are over, but how about options for 2L summers?

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby 2012JayDee » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:31 pm

superbloom wrote:Sounds rough. What are common options for 1L and 2L summers? I assume that the age of paid 1L summers are over, but how about options for 2L summers?


Most 1Ls intern for judges.
Some work at public interest or government (Attorney general, US atty, DOJ, SEC) organizations. There are a number of organizations that pay. But, if the organization does not pay students can still get funding through the school's PILF grant (Public Interest Law Forum). There are also a number of scholarships and grants that you can apply for if you do public interest work. The school does a good job of sending out scholarship information for students interested in careers in government and PI
A handful of students land SA jobs at firms. These can be through diversity programs, scholar programs, or mass mailings to firms that hire 1Ls.
1Ls are kind of on their own because the national rules for legal hiring bar career services from even talking to 1Ls before November about jobs. November is right when classes ar wrapping up and finals are getting ready to start. Most 1Ls are obviously more focused on their first semester finals than (what will likely be) an unpaid job so they don't put any effort into finding a job until well after finals are over and spring semester has started. The opportunity to secure a internship with a judge or other similar government job is plentiful. There are usually a number of internships with judges available up until the last minute.
Many 1Ls and 2Ls also participate in the NYU public interest career fair. It's open only to the NYC-metro area, NY and CT law schools, you have to register and you can go and hand out your resume and have scheduled sessions with various employers. Some people thought it was beneficial some thought it was a waste of time.

http://www.law.nyu.edu/news/2012_PILC_FAIR
http://pilcfair.law.nyu.edu/
http://law.newark.rutgers.edu/public-se ... -resources


2L
Firm jobs will always pay
Interning with a higher level judge may be possible and although it doesn't necessarily pay the end benefit/reward could be a permanent clerkship upon graduation or a referral to a firm/job based on the Judge's reputation and recommendation.
Most employers reserve paid jobs for 2Ls so there is a clear advantage of 2Ls over 1Ls for paid positions.
There are a number of in-house type positions available. A few that I recall (Verizon, Port Authority, PSE&G, Prudential)

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby superbloom » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:37 pm

Thank you. You've been incredibly helpful.

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby ru2486 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:24 pm

superbloom wrote:Thank you. You've been incredibly helpful.


Yeah 2012JayDee is fucking awesome for writing all this out. I keep rereading this thread because there is so much useful information!

Excited for Rutgers Newark this fall!

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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby omg clay aiken ! » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:24 am

Sorry if I missed it in your post, but is there a clerkship exception to the policy of not ranking students? IMO, without at least a percentile rank, this policy could severely disadvantage someone applying to Article III judges...

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superbloom
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Re: Recent Grad (Rutgers-Newark) Taking Q's

Postby superbloom » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:52 pm

I have a similar concern. It looks like Seton Hall seems to outperform Rutgers with regard to Federal clerkships. (c/o 2011 data says R-N had 3, up from 0 the previous year.

Speaking of clerkships, I've always been suspicious of the absurdly high number of state and local level clerks R-N and SH pump out. I'm not sure if you have any way of knowing this, but do you kow what happens to most of these clerks following their clerkships? Are there a lot of post clerks unemployed?




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