Emory 2L Taking Q's

[kaspar]

Hi guys!!
Been reading for a long time, new poster. I notice we don't have any thread for people with questions about Emory. I am not sure why, I have seen a good num of Emory people posting. Maybe they will join in?
Anyway, fire away!

[rman1201]

Thanks for taking questions!
So... Jobs. Are they there?
How's Atlanta?
Are you satisfied with your decision to attend Emory?
What do you have lined up for 2L Summer?

[kaspar]

Thanks for taking questions!

Sure thing!

So... Jobs. Are they there?

They are. Not in huge quantities, but if you do well getting a biglaw job is doable. That said, getting far from the SE without connections is not easy. It's a regional school with middling national recognition, and one has to know that coming in.

Are you satisfied with your decision to attend Emory?

Very. I want to work in the SE, and if you can get money, or can do reasonably well grade-wise, Emory can be a great choice.

What do you have lined up for 2L Summer?

I have an SA position at a big firm.

[Metaread]

What is Atlanta like as a city? I heard public transport is horrible there. Also I note that in the Emory acceptance packet, they mentioned popular neighborhoods for law students were Virginia-Highlands, Druid Hills, Toco Hills, Inman Park, Chandler Park, Morningside, Midtown and the city of Decatur. But on the website the packet provides, http://www.emory.edu/HOUSING/GRAD/gradhouse.html, there were 2 other additional places to choose from, one with luxury facilities and rates up to 1050 p/month. Which of the places mentioned would you recommend/do you know about?

Also, how did you acquire housing during your time at Emory? Did you have a roommate? How reasonable were the living expenses overall?

I ask these questions since I'm trying to gauge whether Atlanta would be a good fit for me, having not been there before (I do have family there who love it though). I haven't yet learnt how to drive, and I won't have a car in the States when I do get to Emory.....

[spets]

1) Do professors tend to use the Socratic method in their classes?

2) Is the competition between students cutthroat?

Thanks for taking time out of your day to do this.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

Thread-hijacking answers

1) Do professors tend to use the Socratic method in their classes?

Depends largely on the professor. Almost all do in some form 1L year, much less so afterwards.

2) Is the competition between students cutthroat?

Not at all. They are incredibly friendly, willing to help if you need it, and willing to share notes (often unprovoked), it's a friendly atmosphere.

And then on top of that there are slackers like me pushing the curve up for everyone else.

[treeey86]

Most 1L students live in the grad campus ( Campus Crossings) or an apartment complex such as Post Briarcliff because of the proximity to campus. 2Ls and 3Ls tend to move into houses/midtown/ VA highlands and other locations further away in part (1) because they had an entire year to get to know the city and find a better place to live and (2) less classes your 2L/3L year mean you are on campus less.

I believe Emory sends out a housing form to matriculating students to help them find roommates. If you are serious about Emory, I will just save you time and say only consider campus crossings or post briarcliff your first year. It is affordable, convenient in proximity to the school, and great for pre-gaming the clubs.

[kaspar]

What is Atlanta like as a city? I heard public transport is horrible there. Also I note that in the Emory acceptance packet, they mentioned popular neighborhoods for law students were Virginia-Highlands, Druid Hills, Toco Hills, Inman Park, Chandler Park, Morningside, Midtown and the city of Decatur.

Atlanta is a nice city. It's unlike NYC, LA, Chi, and other major metropolises. It has a lot of sprawl to it, so public transportation is pretty ineffectual. But there are lots of great neighborhoods, including some of the ones you identified. Virginia Highlands is particularly popular with students.

But on the website the packet provides, http://www.emory.edu/HOUSING/GRAD/gradhouse.html, there were 2 other additional places to choose from, one with luxury facilities and rates up to 1050 p/month. Which of the places mentioned would you recommend/do you know about?

I'm not sure what you're referring to. A poster below mentioned Campus Crossings. Some people I guess live there 1L year, and they like it alright, but no one seems to live there longer than that, so it can't be that great.

Also, how did you acquire housing during your time at Emory? Did you have a roommate? How reasonable were the living expenses overall?

I did not have a roommate, which upped the CoL a little, but for a major city CoL is very reasonable. It's tough to find a city of this size where CoL is so low.

I ask these questions since I'm trying to gauge whether Atlanta would be a good fit for me, having not been there before (I do have family there who love it though). I haven't yet learnt how to drive, and I won't have a car in the States when I do get to Emory.....

I would not advise living in Atlanta without a car.

1) Do professors tend to use the Socratic method in their classes?

Depends on the professor. And yes, as another poster said, there is a lot less socratic method after 1L year. But socratic method is not something you should be worried about before law school. It's such a minor thing and not a big deal at all.

2) Is the competition between students cutthroat?

I've wondered why Emory has gotten this reputation on TLS. I have not seen one instance of people being cutthroat in almost 2 years of being here. I guess it probably exists, but I have never seen it, and have never even heard stories of it. People gladly share notes, etc when needed.

[Metaread]

Darn, so if I can't drive, and won't have time to learn (right now I'm in a foreign country, can't get U.S. driving credentials here)....Emory is not a good choice for me? I don't think there'd be an issue getting to class if the off campus housing is close enough (some say 10-15 minutes)....and yet, for internships and jobs I suppose a car would be pretty much essential? Urghhh. =|

[crit_racer]

X-Posting these questions from the adcomm thread. Any insight would be greatly appreciated; thanks!

-How intensive is the litigation focus at Emory? As someone who isn't interested in being a litigator, I don't want to be in an environment that emphasizes this one facet of legal practice

-How difficult is it to get into the TI:GER program? I would be looking into applying for the Tech sector (non-sci background). About how many applications for how many spots do you receive, and what are the average credentials for those admitted?

[yellowjacket2012]

Darn, so if I can't drive, and won't have time to learn (right now I'm in a foreign country, can't get U.S. driving credentials here)....Emory is not a good choice for me? I don't think there'd be an issue getting to class if the off campus housing is close enough (some say 10-15 minutes)....and yet, for internships and jobs I suppose a car would be pretty much essential? Urghhh. =|

Oh you don't need a car in Atlanta. MARTA is the most phenomenal public transportation system built.

[kaspar]

X-Posting these questions from the adcomm thread. Any insight would be greatly appreciated; thanks!

-How intensive is the litigation focus at Emory? As someone who isn't interested in being a litigator, I don't want to be in an environment that emphasizes this one facet of legal practice

-How difficult is it to get into the TI:GER program? I would be looking into applying for the Tech sector (non-sci background). About how many applications for how many spots do you receive, and what are the average credentials for those admitted?

Sorry, I can't answer questions about the TI:GER program. Not my focus.

But, I don't think there is a "litigation focus" at all at Emory. Yes, there is the mandatory trial techniques program, but that's minor. There are a ton of people here who are strictly interested in corporate and transactional law, and there are course offerings, professors, and field placements that cater to them.I would suggest you look at the Transactional Certificate program: http://www.law.emory.edu/centers-clinic ... ctice.html It's run by a professor who used to own a business that was hired by biglaw firms in NYC to teach their incoming first-years the things you need to know, and that law school doesn't teach you, to work in a transactional practice. Emory hired her a few years ago and she basically set up the same thing for Emory students who are interested in a TX practice.

So to answer your first question, I don't find there's a litigation focus at all.

[forty-two]

Thread-hijacking answers

2) Is the competition between students cutthroat?

Not at all. They are incredibly friendly, willing to help if you need it, and willing to share notes (often unprovoked), it's a friendly atmosphere.

And then on top of that there are slackers like me pushing the curve up for everyone else.

+1 the people here are super nice and helpful. People share their notes, outlines, and hypos/practice tests (this is especially helpful when a prof doesn't have many exams on file). Some people in my section also bring in food or candy for people during particularly stressful times. It's a good atmosphere.

Also, at the bolded. I always knew I liked you for a reason...

[Metaread]

Oh you don't need a car in Atlanta. MARTA is the most phenomenal public transportation system built.

Was that sarcasm, or is MARTA actually good in your opinion? The "oh" makes me think you might have been aiming for sarcasm there, but it's quite mysterious for me.

Another question: How competitive is Emory for biglaw in the region? Or are jobs in other sectors much likelier and favored for Emory law grads?

[BlueDevil2007]

As an Atlanta native my advice is DO NOT live/work/study in the Atlanta metro area without owning a motor vehicle.

[kaspar]

Oh you don't need a car in Atlanta. MARTA is the most phenomenal public transportation system built.

Was that sarcasm, or is MARTA actually good in your opinion? The "oh" makes me think you might have been aiming for sarcasm there, but it's quite mysterious for me.

Pretty sure that's sarcasm.

Another question: How competitive is Emory for biglaw in the region? Or are jobs in other sectors much likelier and favored for Emory law grads?

Are you asking (a) whether JD's from Emory are competitive with JD's from other schools in getting Atlanta biglaw jobs? or (b) whether there is much competition between Emory JD's for Atlanta biglaw jobs?

As to either I would say the answer is yes, although less so for (b). There are lots of people at Emory who, misguidedly in my opinion, go to Emory with the goal of going to a major biglaw market (NY/DC/Cali) or returning to their home cities/states, far from the SE. For that reason there is probably more self-selection out of Atlanta biglaw among Emory grads than among UGA, Alabama, Georgia State, etc., and so the competition for those jobs is probably a little less between Emory grads than it is between grads of those schools.

[justadude55]

I know this has been asked before, but can we get more details on job prospects? I'd be fine staying in the SE and have a nice scholly, but I just want to know I'd have a great job. I was telling my friends last night about how my fantasy would be to be able to go to Miami after law school, and get an 80k plus job there. Is this likely?

What %age of students have paid SA positions? Does not being from the SE hurt students?

[treeey86]

Justadood: It is possible from Emory. Emory grads get jobs up and down the east coast, working for mid and large firms paying 80K or higher. Better question is it likely in YOUR situation. Do you have connections to Miami? Law firms hiring out of regional schools want to see a connection to the city you want to work in. If you went to a school in Florida, it is easier to sell a connection to the Miami market than going to Emory. But if you can communicate a reasons why you want to be in Miami and have some connection to the city then the Emory degree can get you there. But of course, you getting there will also depend on your grades, on the economy, on the needs of the firms that are there, your ability to interview, etc. Too many X factors to say a definite yes or no to your question. But to even have a chance, you need a connection to Miami. No connection = likely no chance.

[kaspar]

I know this has been asked before, but can we get more details on job prospects? I'd be fine staying in the SE and have a nice scholly, but I just want to know I'd have a great job. I was telling my friends last night about how my fantasy would be to be able to go to Miami after law school, and get an 80k plus job there. Is this likely?

What are you asking here? I presume you've seen all the statistics. Emory places around 20-25% in NALP firms in a bad year, 5-15% more in a good year. The 80k job out of law school is mostly a myth:



See how low the percentages are in between the two modes? Maybe 2% for each step? Firms that pay that salary range are out there, but they don't hire right out of law school. They hire people who are 2-4 years out who have experience and skills.

If you go to a school like Emory, you need to be comfortable with the reality that you will either (a) do well (top 25%, +/-) and get a biglaw job in Atlanta, or somewhere else if you have connections, or (b) not well and get a low-paying job. The way I see it those really are the two options. This is why going to Emory (or any similar school) at sticker is a bad idea: if you aren't in that grade range or have extraneous factors (great connections, family firm, trust fund) you are going to have a crushing debt burden.

There are exceptions. Some small firms hire students right out of school and pay 75k, but they are not the rule. It takes decent grades (top 40% or top 1/3) plus very good connections or hustle to get these jobs.

What %age of students have paid SA positions? Does not being from the SE hurt students?

I don't know the exact %age that have paid SA positions, but it's somewhere around half probably. And not being from the SE doesn't hurt you if you can spin a good yarn about why you're interested in the market.

[justadude55]

I know this has been asked before, but can we get more details on job prospects? I'd be fine staying in the SE and have a nice scholly, but I just want to know I'd have a great job. I was telling my friends last night about how my fantasy would be to be able to go to Miami after law school, and get an 80k plus job there. Is this likely?

I'm not really sure what you're asking here. I presume you've seen all the relevant statistics. Emory places around 20-25% in NALP firms in a bad year, maybe 5-15% more in a good year. The 80k job out of law school is mostly a myth:



See how low the percentages are for jobs in between the two modes? Maybe 2% for each step? The firms that pay that kind of salary range (midlaw) are definitely out there, but they don't usually hire right out of law school. They hire people who are 2-4 years out who have gained some relevant experience and useful knowledge/skills.

If you go to a school like Emory, you need to be comfortable with the reality that you will either (a) do well--top 25% or so--and get a biglaw job in Atlanta, or somewhere else if you have decent connections, or (b) not do so well and get a relatively low-paying job. The way I see it those really are the two options. This is why I think going to Emory (or any school ranked similarly) at sticker is a bad idea, because if you aren't in the top 25% or so you are going to have a crushing debt burden that will be extremely difficult to repay.

Of course, there are exceptions. Some small firms do hire students right out of school and pay 75k or so, but they are the exception, not the rule. It generally takes decent grades (top 40% or top 1/3 or so) plus very good connections and/or networking hustle to get these jobs.

What %age of students have paid SA positions? Does not being from the SE hurt students?

I don't know the exact %age that have paid SA positions, but it's somewhere around half probably. And not being from the SE doesn't hurt you if you can spin a good yarn about why you're interested in the market.

Thanks for this thoughtful reply. To be honest, and as weird as this sounds, I do not know that much about reading graphs like these and evaluating that stuff. I've checked out the Vault list but that's about it.

Are you saying 80k out of law school doesn't happen?

When you say accept a lesser salary, what does that mean? I have a 1/2 scholarship to Emory, but also to many similarly ranked schools such as ND. I didn't apply to BU/BC because I got no waiver and also don't want to be in the cold of Boston only to then likely struggle against Fordham grads in NY. I'd pick Emory > ND only because of climate, and being able to see myself living in Atlanta.

[kaspar]

I'm saying exactly what I said.

It happens, but it is not something to expect. Generally, people who do well enough get biglaw jobs paying 160k (or whatever the # is in secondary cities). The people who don't get low-paying jobs at very small law firms (DUI, insurance, workers comp--"shitlaw") or non-prestigious public interest/government work. These jobs pay in the $50k range. That is why you see the bimodal distribution between those two options.

The number of graduates, from ANY school, leaving with an 80k (midlaw) job in hand is very small. It's not impossible, but it's just not common.

[justadude55]

So it's 160k or 50k coming from Emory?

[kaspar]

How else do you want me to answer the question? It's probably that (and a lot of 110-140k being the biglaw salary in secondary markets), with a smattering of 80k midlaw in between, but not much.

[ballpop]

They always tout 20-30% going to NYC/the Northeast from Emory---does this happen? While I think Atlanta would be a good place to study, I am not sure if I can handle it long term (Vancouver and LA to me seem like cultureless shells of cities)

[Metaread]

Another q: Atlanta's got a huge crime rate--among the top 3 worst cities in the US last I checked. Is this a problem or an interference in any way? Whether or not I'd want to practice in Atlanta depends on whether or not I *know* Atlanta to be safe, at least in the neighborhoods I'd live in. I'm assuming Emory law itself is safe, but what about the area right outside?

And would you say the 20%+ who end in the NE got there because of connections, or is it quite possible to land in the NE and practice there without connections?