MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
Guthrie32
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MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:06 am

I will entertain any questions regarding Michigan State University College of Law or being a 1L in general.

Danteshek
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:12 am

Guthrie32 wrote:I will entertain any questions regarding Michigan State University College of Law or being a 1L in general.


What is the general feeling about/reputation of the Journal of Business and Securities Law?

Guthrie32
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:18 am

I think it is definitely headed in the right direction. I personally am not interested in business law, but I do know the journal is ranked very high, and made a big jump into the top 50. That is partially due to having an excellent business school across the street, and partially because the J.D./MBA program is a really great deal for people interested in a dual program. If you have more specific questions I can get you an email for someone on the journal.

Danteshek
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Danteshek » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:25 am

Guthrie32 wrote:I think it is definitely headed in the right direction. I personally am not interested in business law, but I do know the journal is ranked very high, and made a big jump into the top 50. That is partially due to having an excellent business school across the street, and partially because the J.D./MBA program is a really great deal for people interested in a dual program. If you have more specific questions I can get you an email for someone on the journal.


I am competing in the Elliot Spoon student writing competition. But I might withdraw if the Journal of Business and Technology Law at U of MD accepts my submission. I will know by tomorrow.

Guthrie32
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:30 am

[/quote]
Danteshek wrote:
Guthrie32 wrote:I think it is definitely headed in the right direction. I personally am not interested in business law, but I do know the journal is ranked very high, and made a big jump into the top 50. That is partially due to having an excellent business school across the street, and partially because the J.D./MBA program is a really great deal for people interested in a dual program. If you have more specific questions I can get you an email for someone on the journal.


I am competing in the Elliot Spoon student writing competition. But I might withdraw if the Journal of Business and Technology Law at U of MD accepts my submission. I will know by tomorrow.


Good luck either way!

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dr123
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby dr123 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:34 am

EL being so close to Lansing are there a lot of opportunities in gov't for students?

Guthrie32
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:51 am

dr123 wrote:EL being so close to Lansing are there a lot of opportunities in gov't for students?


In short, absolutely! There are literally endless opportunities in Lansing with various government agencies. Most of them already have externship programs setup, but if there is one you want to work for that doesn't you can create your own. The school held its annual Spring Recruitment Fair last Friday and there were a bunch of government entities participating. I have a list in an e-mail somewhere, if there was a particular branch of government you were interested in feel free to let me know.

sizzlechest
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby sizzlechest » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:19 pm

Thanks Guthrie32 for your willingness to share knowledge.

I understand that East Lansing is a small college town with an enormous undergrad population.

Are there any resources available for incoming 1Ls regarding where to live?

In particular, where to find a house to rent that isn't undergrad-ground-zero?

I'm looking for something close to campus but not too campusish...am I asking for the impossible or are there hidden gem neighborhoods? Lansing? Okemos?

Are you planning to do a clinic? Are they readily available if you want to or is there a WL?

Guthrie32
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:39 pm

sizzlechest wrote:Thanks Guthrie32 for your willingness to share knowledge.

I understand that East Lansing is a small college town with an enormous undergrad population.

Are there any resources available for incoming 1Ls regarding where to live?

In particular, where to find a house to rent that isn't undergrad-ground-zero?

I'm looking for something close to campus but not too campusish...am I asking for the impossible or are there hidden gem neighborhoods? Lansing? Okemos?

Are you planning to do a clinic? Are they readily available if you want to or is there a WL?


Great questions! Housing can be a trick in EL. There are great apartments within 5 miles of campus, both north of EL and in Okemos. The bus system in EL is great, and it makes getting to campus from almost all of these apartments pretty simple. The fact that there are some 50,000 students here makes it difficult to get close to campus, in a nice unit, for a decent price. I would sincerely suggest staying a few miles from campus and using the bus/driving for your first year. It will keep you out of trouble and is typically quieter. I lived at The Club at Chandler Crossings, which offers an all law student building. It was good for me, although if I had to do it again I would not get a 4BR unit. I would encourage 1L's to get 1 roommate if possible. There are several others that I know are good to stay at and law friendly: The Landings at Chandler Crossing, Knob Hill, Club Meridian, Abbott Place, and Arbor Glen. I do not know anything about renting a house, although I'm sure you could do that. I am sure there are gems, but to be honest you may not have time to find it. The school will give you a huge list of all the apartment options with a nice list of what they offer. Use it as a guide, but I suggest starting with the ones I mentioned. They seem the most popular.

Clinics: I am planning to do a clinic. There are a bunch of clinics available, and probably will be more by the time you leave. I plan on doing the Plea and Sentencing Clinic, but there is also Legal Clinic, Low-income Taxpayer Clinic, Chance at Childhood Clinic, Housing Clinic, Small Business and Nonprofit Clinic, Immigration Clinic, and Tax Clinic. I'm not sure if that is even all of them, but from what I understand most of them are easy to get into. They are a great way to gain practical experience.

If that didn't answer everything clearly feel free to let me know, but I hope that helps. Also, if you are for sure coming here it would be wise to get your apartment figured out soon because most places fill up by June/July. Thank you!

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Justathought
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Justathought » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:52 pm

Hi, thanks for taking questions!

Do you have any idea how exportable your degree will be? For example, I know MSU has a huge and loyal alumni base and its a "brand name" school, but do you think with enough leg work your degree might take you to a Midwestern center like Chicago or St. Louis?

Along the same lines, could you talk about any knowledge you might have with regard to the semester in Washington, and if it has worked out well career wise for those who partook.

Thanks again.

miazdc
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby miazdc » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:55 pm

Thanks for taking questions. I'm tagging this for future use!

Guthrie32
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:04 pm

Justathought wrote:Hi, thanks for taking questions!

Do you have any idea how exportable your degree will be? For example, I know MSU has a huge and loyal alumni base and its a "brand name" school, but do you think with enough leg work your degree might take you to a Midwestern center like Chicago or St. Louis?

Along the same lines, could you talk about any knowledge you might have with regard to the semester in Washington, and if it has worked out well career wise for those who partook.

Thanks again.


Great question! I personally am not from Michigan, and this is not something I worry about. I am from Indiana and plan to return there after school. Chicago is definitely a possibility, and I know that we had a 100% bar passage rate in the State of Illinois. One of my colleagues from my section is from St. Louis and I know he has already secured a summer position. I think this school is definitely on the rise, and that as we continue to improve in the rankings it will only get easier to break into those markets. Also, after a bit of checking, I found out that 46% of our graduates go out of Michigan, so it is fairly common.

The Washington program is a wonderful opportunity for students who wish to get into that market. I am not interested in the program personally, but I know that it has significantly helped students secure working relationships with people in D.C. I honestly do not know of anyone who has graduated after doing that program, but I am sure it has immense benefits to those interested.

I hope this helps, and if you want more information on Washington let me know, and I will connect you with someone who has completed the program. Thank you!

sparty99
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby sparty99 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:02 am

I have a question. Do you think Durrell Summers will show any sign of life before the basketball season ends? Has Tom Izzo lost his touch?

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alexb
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby alexb » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:35 am

I hear a lot of people saying that MSU is going to jump in the rankings or is on the rise. Why do people say this? Do you think it's going to make the jump to TT in 2012?

Also: To keep my scholarship, I must maintain a 3.0. What's the median?

cabbydui
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby cabbydui » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:06 am

The 1L curve is 25% = A; 35% = B; and 40% = C. The profs have a little bit of wiggle room to deviate from those numbers. I have heard of students getting F's in first year courses, however. When all is said and done, I think a 3.0 would be a little below median so it is definitely obtainable.

In terms of the Top-100 thing, there is a good possibility that it will make this jump in the spring. Personally, however, I don't really see why it matters that much. Are all the firms going to start drooling over MSU students because the school went from 10x to 9x? Are the Detroit firms going to disregard Wayne State because MSU is a couple slots higher in the rankings. I would say no. At the end of the day, there will still be a school ranked 90 spots higher an hour away and the same elite students (top 5% after 1L) will have a chance at landing the 6 figure jobs out of the gate.

Also, in response to the OP, there are no journals ranked in the top 50. The Law Review is the highest ranked at 54. Maybe you meant top 50 in terms of that particular speciality. It just comes across as misleading when you say that its ranked in the top 50.

cabbydui
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby cabbydui » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:10 am

Izzo is one of the top 2 coaches in America. Only coach to lead his team to the previous two Final Fours is pretty good recent history. I've heard that Summers needs to lay of the herb...

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alexb
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby alexb » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:24 pm

cabbydui wrote:The 1L curve is 25% = A; 35% = B; and 40% = C. The profs have a little bit of wiggle room to deviate from those numbers. I have heard of students getting F's in first year courses, however. When all is said and done, I think a 3.0 would be a little below median so it is definitely obtainable.

In terms of the Top-100 thing, there is a good possibility that it will make this jump in the spring. Personally, however, I don't really see why it matters that much. Are all the firms going to start drooling over MSU students because the school went from 10x to 9x? Are the Detroit firms going to disregard Wayne State because MSU is a couple slots higher in the rankings. I would say no. At the end of the day, there will still be a school ranked 90 spots higher an hour away and the same elite students (top 5% after 1L) will have a chance at landing the 6 figure jobs out of the gate.

Also, in response to the OP, there are no journals ranked in the top 50. The Law Review is the highest ranked at 54. Maybe you meant top 50 in terms of that particular speciality. It just comes across as misleading when you say that its ranked in the top 50.



Thank you, sir!

Guthrie32
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:54 pm

cabbydui wrote:The 1L curve is 25% = A; 35% = B; and 40% = C. The profs have a little bit of wiggle room to deviate from those numbers. I have heard of students getting F's in first year courses, however. When all is said and done, I think a 3.0 would be a little below median so it is definitely obtainable.

In terms of the Top-100 thing, there is a good possibility that it will make this jump in the spring. Personally, however, I don't really see why it matters that much. Are all the firms going to start drooling over MSU students because the school went from 10x to 9x? Are the Detroit firms going to disregard Wayne State because MSU is a couple slots higher in the rankings. I would say no. At the end of the day, there will still be a school ranked 90 spots higher an hour away and the same elite students (top 5% after 1L) will have a chance at landing the 6 figure jobs out of the gate.

Also, in response to the OP, there are no journals ranked in the top 50. The Law Review is the highest ranked at 54. Maybe you meant top 50 in terms of that particular speciality. It just comes across as misleading when you say that its ranked in the top 50.


First, that is not our grading curve. It is A 25%; B 35%; C 35%; D/F 5%. There is a 10% flex option to professors to bump the curve upward, and in my section 2/4 professors took advantage of this. There were less than 5 F's in my entire section, and only a small handful of D's. Frankly, if you get an F you have really earned it because they are reserved for complete idiots who do not even attempt to study (paraphrasing my Torts professor). Maintaining a scholarship is definitely within reason and I think a 3.0 is slightly below the median. RWA and upper level courses use a 30/40/30 scale, again with a 10% upward option.

Second, I think people are hyped about our ranking movement because of the history Dean Howarth has with moving schools up in rankings. She helped take UNLV, a brand new school, all the way into the mid 70's. I think there is also a general feel that with the MSU name, and Big Ten affiliation the school will continue to gain respect, both in state and abroad. With that said, no we will never be ranked as high as our Ann Arbor foe's.

Third, I made no claims about any of our journals aside from the Journal of Business and Securities Law, which is actually ranked 19th now. I'm in no way trying to fudge numbers or make things look better than they are, just giving my honest opinion.

Guthrie32
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:58 pm

cabbydui wrote:Izzo is one of the top 2 coaches in America. Only coach to lead his team to the previous two Final Fours is pretty good recent history. I've heard that Summers needs to lay of the herb...


I agree, and I agree. I think the team really lacks a takeover player who will just put the team on his back and win close games. We have 4 very talented players and they work well together, but in a close game someone has to take over and be that guy. I think we will make the big dance, and I think we are a team that if things start clicking could still do some damage in the early rounds.

On a side note, watching games at Breslin is another huge plus to going to MSU. The building is electric and you can get tickets easy/cheap. There is also season ticket options for football, which is a great way to meet 2L's and 3L's your first year. They are reasonably priced and include food at a weekly MSU Law tailgate.

sparty99
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby sparty99 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:10 pm

(1) What is the magic formula to be at the top of your class? I want that $160k job you hear about. Also, one of those full-ride scholarships for 2L/3L will be nice as well.

(2) What is the salary ranges for summer associates? I heard in NY they make $3,000/week. Is this possible for MSU students (whether in NYC, chicago, michigan)?

(3) Do the top 10 students remain at MSU or do they usually transfer to Michigan?

(4) Do you get a lot of cooley transfers?

(5) Are there biglaw firms that specialize in criminal law? Do you know their names so I can research them?

cabbydui
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby cabbydui » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:22 pm

Come on guy...there is no journal at Michigan State Law ranked #19. Please give me some proof. Here is a link to all the rankings of all the law journals. The Law Review is the only publication inside the Top-100. There are no other journals even close to that. http://lawlib.wlu.edu/lj/index.aspx?mainid=43

Thank you for the correction to the grading curve. However, it seems a little fishy that you know how many people got D's and F's in your section. I doubt that many people would want to talk about that and I doubt that you have a good enough of a relationship to pry this info from 70+ classmates.

I'm sorry about the negative post but some of the things that OP says just don't add up, especially for a 1L (unless s/he is working for admissions...)

sparty99
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby sparty99 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:27 pm

Who cares about rankings. But the journal is ranked #36, bro...And this is a FACT.

cabbydui
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby cabbydui » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:29 pm

The Journal jumped an impressive 345 spots among all law journals in 2010, according to the annual rankings issued by the Washington & Lee University School of Law, the leading source for data on legal periodicals. Among the more exclusive group of journals specializing in commercial law, the Journal was ranked 36th overall, marking a 33-place increase over 2009.

Guthrie32
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:31 pm

cabbydui wrote:Come on guy...there is no journal at Michigan State Law ranked #19. Please give me some proof. Here is a link to all the rankings of all the law journals. The Law Review is the only publication inside the Top-100. There are no other journals even close to that. http://lawlib.wlu.edu/lj/index.aspx?mainid=43

Thank you for the correction to the grading curve. However, it seems a little fishy that you know how many people got D's and F's in your section. I doubt that many people would want to talk about that and I doubt that you have a good enough of a relationship to pry this info from 70+ classmates.

I'm sorry about the negative post but some of the things that OP says just don't add up, especially for a 1L (unless s/he is working for admissions...)


Follow your link. It is titled the Journal of Business and Securities Law. Try doing some research before denouncing my data. Also, the grade distributions were posted in my classes, or available by stopping in to ask the professor. Did I mention anywhere that I know what people got on their exams? I volunteer to give tours for admissions, and I am active in my school. I feel like that is a good model for other 1L's to follow. I also did well in RESEARCH, writing, and Advocacy, and all of this information is available on the internet. I'm just posting it through this medium and with my opinion. If you would like cites to the other information I can provide them.

Guthrie32
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Re: MSU Law - 1L Taking Questions

Postby Guthrie32 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:35 pm

sparty99 wrote:Who cares about rankings. But the journal is ranked #36, bro...And this is a FACT.


See below post. It is currently 35th in commercial law journals. I did it wrong when i searched for it before, my apologies. Fact is that it IS ranked where I originally posted, and that it was simply a response to someone interested. I do not particularly care about rankings either…but that's just me.
Last edited by Guthrie32 on Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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