The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
nonprofit-prophet
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:18 pm

sn20 wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
whenwin wrote:
sn20 wrote:Any 2L's or 3L's want to comment on current employment prospects for BigLaw? How was OCI for those at the top, median and bottom?

^ Interested in this, too.

Also, not to be negative, but I just read some pretty disparaging comments on an article in the Austin American Statesman regarding job prospects at UT. Could anyone more familiar with the situation comment on the accuracy of these comments? Article here.


I'm only a 1L, but have had quite a few friends go through the law school and graduate in each of the last few years. From what I gather, hiring hasn't been great, but that's true of every school. I've been told by my friend working in big law that you really need a 3.6 (a hair below top quarter) to have a shot at it. That being said, if you do well, you have quite a few options not just in Texas, but in NYC and various clerkships.

Edit: i should also clarify that the 3.6 might not (for better or worse) apply to female and minority students. My friends have said that their firms dip into the 3.4-3.5 range to boost diversity numbers. DISCLAIMER: I am making no judgments about the various benefits or costs associates with such practices, nor am I implying that women or minority students are less intelligent. Just telling you what I've heard from a number of people.


So all the clamoring by TLS saying "go to UT if you want to practice in Texas" (read: don't go to better, out-of-state schools) is just wrong? COA at UT is still $143,136 over 3 years and you have to make top 25%. COA at Duke/UVA is about $210,000 over 3 years and normally students at median can get BigLaw?



well you are sort of asking two different questions. You first mention "go to UT if you want to practice in Texas," but then you reference Duke's overall big law numbers. My advice would be this: if you want big law anywhere you can get it, go to Duke or UVA. if you want big law in Texas, go to Texas. A median student at Duke will probably have a harder time getting big law in Texas than a median student at UT (though both are in for stressful OCI). I mentioned above that firms seem willing to give out offers like crazy to HYS students, but when you get to the bottom of the T14, they are much more serious about ties to the state (heck, even ties to the city. I know people from one major TX city with top 10% grades that had a very hard time getting big law in another major texas city).

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sn20
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby sn20 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:33 pm

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Last edited by sn20 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:49 pm

well I think it's a trade off. It may be harder to make top half at UVA or Duke than it is to make top quarter at UT. Again, if you're a girl, you can probably skate by with top 40%. All else being equal, I'd probably go to a higher ranked school if I had legit Texas ties (which I didn't when I made my decision).

de5igual
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby de5igual » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:51 pm

Top 25% being the cutoff is an unreasonable stretch. Even in the worst of times, the number was around 27% for nlj250, and after you factor in clerkships and non-nlj250 near market firms, it ends up north of 40%. But yeah, going to any T13 would increase the likelihood of landing one of these gigs, but median at UT isn't necessarily a death sentence either.

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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:58 pm

f0bolous wrote:Top 25% being the cutoff is an unreasonable stretch. Even in the worst of times, the number was around 27% for nlj250, and after you factor in clerkships and non-nlj250 near market firms, it ends up north of 40%. But yeah, going to any T13 would increase the likelihood of landing one of these gigs, but median at UT isn't necessarily a death sentence either.


Yea I agree with almost everything you said. I never said the cut off was top quarter, my original post said it was around a 3.6, which is between top third and top quarter. But I think that 40 number is a bit inflated, since quite a few of the people that are taking clerkships are working for state court judges, so that 40% figure might not be an accurate indication of who can get a big law job.

de5igual
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby de5igual » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:09 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Top 25% being the cutoff is an unreasonable stretch. Even in the worst of times, the number was around 27% for nlj250, and after you factor in clerkships and non-nlj250 near market firms, it ends up north of 40%. But yeah, going to any T13 would increase the likelihood of landing one of these gigs, but median at UT isn't necessarily a death sentence either.


Yea I agree with almost everything you said. I never said the cut off was top quarter, my original post said it was around a 3.6, which is between top third and top quarter. But I think that 40 number is a bit inflated, since quite a few of the people that are taking clerkships are working for state court judges, so that 40% figure might not be an accurate indication of who can get a big law job.


i was referring to sn20 re: the top 25%, but even 3.6 is a bit high. i'm more familiar with texas firms than ny ones, but i know all the big 3 dip well south of 3.6 (think 3.3-3.4 range) for preselect interviews, despite whatever they say on symplicity.

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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:19 pm

f0bolous wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Top 25% being the cutoff is an unreasonable stretch. Even in the worst of times, the number was around 27% for nlj250, and after you factor in clerkships and non-nlj250 near market firms, it ends up north of 40%. But yeah, going to any T13 would increase the likelihood of landing one of these gigs, but median at UT isn't necessarily a death sentence either.


Yea I agree with almost everything you said. I never said the cut off was top quarter, my original post said it was around a 3.6, which is between top third and top quarter. But I think that 40 number is a bit inflated, since quite a few of the people that are taking clerkships are working for state court judges, so that 40% figure might not be an accurate indication of who can get a big law job.


i was referring to sn20 re: the top 25%, but even 3.6 is a bit high. i'm more familiar with texas firms than ny ones, but i know all the big 3 dip well south of 3.6 (think 3.3-3.4 range) for preselect interviews, despite whatever they say on symplicity.


But to whom do they make offers? I'll admit that my older friends (those that graduated and those that are 3Ls) are all TLR people, so their advice might be skewed. That being said, i've been told that in recent years, big 3 really only make offers to people north of a high 3.5X (basically, around a 3.6).

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sn20
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby sn20 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:30 pm

f0bolous wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Top 25% being the cutoff is an unreasonable stretch. Even in the worst of times, the number was around 27% for nlj250, and after you factor in clerkships and non-nlj250 near market firms, it ends up north of 40%. But yeah, going to any T13 would increase the likelihood of landing one of these gigs, but median at UT isn't necessarily a death sentence either.


Yea I agree with almost everything you said. I never said the cut off was top quarter, my original post said it was around a 3.6, which is between top third and top quarter. But I think that 40 number is a bit inflated, since quite a few of the people that are taking clerkships are working for state court judges, so that 40% figure might not be an accurate indication of who can get a big law job.


i was referring to sn20 re: the top 25%, but even 3.6 is a bit high. i'm more familiar with texas firms than ny ones, but i know all the big 3 dip well south of 3.6 (think 3.3-3.4 range) for preselect interviews, despite whatever they say on symplicity.


3.3 would be about median?

de5igual
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby de5igual » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:31 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Top 25% being the cutoff is an unreasonable stretch. Even in the worst of times, the number was around 27% for nlj250, and after you factor in clerkships and non-nlj250 near market firms, it ends up north of 40%. But yeah, going to any T13 would increase the likelihood of landing one of these gigs, but median at UT isn't necessarily a death sentence either.


Yea I agree with almost everything you said. I never said the cut off was top quarter, my original post said it was around a 3.6, which is between top third and top quarter. But I think that 40 number is a bit inflated, since quite a few of the people that are taking clerkships are working for state court judges, so that 40% figure might not be an accurate indication of who can get a big law job.


i was referring to sn20 re: the top 25%, but even 3.6 is a bit high. i'm more familiar with texas firms than ny ones, but i know all the big 3 dip well south of 3.6 (think 3.3-3.4 range) for preselect interviews, despite whatever they say on symplicity.


But to whom do they make offers? I'll admit that my older friends (those that graduated and those that are 3Ls) are all TLR people, so their advice might be skewed. That being said, i've been told that in recent years, big 3 really only make offers to people north of a high 3.5X (basically, around a 3.6).


i know sub 3.6 for sure gets offers, but you're probably right in that most of those given offers are above a 3.6.

de5igual
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby de5igual » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:32 pm

sn20 wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Top 25% being the cutoff is an unreasonable stretch. Even in the worst of times, the number was around 27% for nlj250, and after you factor in clerkships and non-nlj250 near market firms, it ends up north of 40%. But yeah, going to any T13 would increase the likelihood of landing one of these gigs, but median at UT isn't necessarily a death sentence either.


Yea I agree with almost everything you said. I never said the cut off was top quarter, my original post said it was around a 3.6, which is between top third and top quarter. But I think that 40 number is a bit inflated, since quite a few of the people that are taking clerkships are working for state court judges, so that 40% figure might not be an accurate indication of who can get a big law job.


i was referring to sn20 re: the top 25%, but even 3.6 is a bit high. i'm more familiar with texas firms than ny ones, but i know all the big 3 dip well south of 3.6 (think 3.3-3.4 range) for preselect interviews, despite whatever they say on symplicity.


3.3 would be about median?


3.35-3.38 would be median after 1L

longhorns89
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby longhorns89 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:35 pm

So a couple of questions for UT Law students:
1) I will attend UT@UT Law (an admitted students day for UT undergrads and alumni), so is it worth attending the regular ASD especially when going to the regular ASD will delay me leaving town that weekend? Anyone been to both?

2) Do law students regularly go to football games? I can't imagine being a student here for another 3 years without going to games and our team is about to get good again. But I also realize that I will have plenty of work to do and will probably need to do a full day of studying on Saturdays, so I'm curious about how people balance football games (or even sports in general since I also like going to basketball games) and weekend studying at such a big football school.

3) What is the process for getting on law review at UT? Like what grades (or class rank although I thought I saw on the website that UT doesn't rank) generally get a person invited? Or is there more to it than grades?

Thanks!

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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby de5igual » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:19 pm

longhorns89 wrote:So a couple of questions for UT Law students:
1) I will attend UT@UT Law (an admitted students day for UT undergrads and alumni), so is it worth attending the regular ASD especially when going to the regular ASD will delay me leaving town that weekend? Anyone been to both?

2) Do law students regularly go to football games? I can't imagine being a student here for another 3 years without going to games and our team is about to get good again. But I also realize that I will have plenty of work to do and will probably need to do a full day of studying on Saturdays, so I'm curious about how people balance football games (or even sports in general since I also like going to basketball games) and weekend studying at such a big football school.

3) What is the process for getting on law review at UT? Like what grades (or class rank although I thought I saw on the website that UT doesn't rank) generally get a person invited? Or is there more to it than grades?

Thanks!


1) from my understanding, UT@UT Law is more or less the same as ASD, except for UT undergrads. Going to both would be redundant, and the school probably doesn't expect you to go to both.

2) 1Ls typically group together for a giant section for football games. Past 1L, 2Ls and 3Ls don't go as often, and the grouping is much more fragmented depending on who you hang out with. Up until maybe late October or so, you really shouldn't have anything school related that would keep you from going to football games on Saturdays. If you do as a 1L, you're overdoing it.

3) To get on LR, there's a write on during the summer after 1L. Even though there's no pure grade-on process, grades are weighed pretty heavily for 40 of the 50 spots. The remaining 10 spots are pure write-on. The school doesn't officially rank, but it still does. (just like every other school)

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japes
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby japes » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:58 am

longhorns89 wrote:So a couple of questions for UT Law students:
1) I will attend UT@UT Law (an admitted students day for UT undergrads and alumni), so is it worth attending the regular ASD especially when going to the regular ASD will delay me leaving town that weekend? Anyone been to both?

2) Do law students regularly go to football games? I can't imagine being a student here for another 3 years without going to games and our team is about to get good again. But I also realize that I will have plenty of work to do and will probably need to do a full day of studying on Saturdays, so I'm curious about how people balance football games (or even sports in general since I also like going to basketball games) and weekend studying at such a big football school.

3) What is the process for getting on law review at UT? Like what grades (or class rank although I thought I saw on the website that UT doesn't rank) generally get a person invited? Or is there more to it than grades?

Thanks!


1) I went to UT @ UT Law day and it was a pretty huge waste of time. Most of the people were gone by mid-afternoon. I wouldn't stress about going to either that or ASD, and probably the best you can get out of it is drinks with future classmates afterwards.

2) see above.

3) if you want numbers, the best approximation is that 50 students would be about an eighth of the class.

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hal20
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby hal20 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:45 am

Could someone talk more about the UT fund matching program? I know it says offers will only be considered from peer schools, would they consider big offers from Minnesota/UIUC (in-state)/WUSTL? Thanks!

de5igual
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby de5igual » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:01 pm

hal20 wrote:Could someone talk more about the UT fund matching program? I know it says offers will only be considered from peer schools, would they consider big offers from Minnesota/UIUC (in-state)/WUSTL? Thanks!


you get one shot (supposedly) to turn in other scholarship offers for consideration. what UT considers "peer" is usually only T14+Vandy/UCLA. USC on down probably won't be considered peers (at least during my app cycle they weren't) but that's not to say you shouldn't try. I think they sometimes tailor the scholarships for individual candidates. For instance, I know some people in-state who used UH/SMU fullrides to negotiate more $. So give it a shot...you've got nothing to lose by trying.

scaredofdebt
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby scaredofdebt » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:17 pm

..

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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby scaredofdebt » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:21 pm

I am deciding between cornell sticker and UT 20k scholarship with out of state tuition.

i am from NYC though would be open to working in texas after school, however, i am worried about my complete and utter lack of ties prohibiting this from being possible. where would a yanke with no ties whatsoever need to land in his or her class in order to overcome a complete lack of ties and land a biglaw job in texas.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:00 am

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Top 25% being the cutoff is an unreasonable stretch. Even in the worst of times, the number was around 27% for nlj250, and after you factor in clerkships and non-nlj250 near market firms, it ends up north of 40%. But yeah, going to any T13 would increase the likelihood of landing one of these gigs, but median at UT isn't necessarily a death sentence either.


Yea I agree with almost everything you said. I never said the cut off was top quarter, my original post said it was around a 3.6, which is between top third and top quarter. But I think that 40 number is a bit inflated, since quite a few of the people that are taking clerkships are working for state court judges, so that 40% figure might not be an accurate indication of who can get a big law job.


The results of OCI this year will be much better than 27% for nlj250. People need to keep in mind that was the worst year of legal hiring maybe ever (with the current cravath model). (Though, getting a summer job and then being no-offered like the class before might have actually been a worse position to be in.) UT's nlj numbers in the previous years were close to 40% (high 30's) by themselves. When you include only article III clerkships, the number is easily over 40%. (Keep in mind this isn't even counting the high-end boutiques who pay MORE, either in base salary or in bonuses, than market biglaw.) Then combine this with the knowledge that there are PI people with good grades.

So all that said, saying there is a cut-off near top quarter, even top third is just wrong. People below that will get biglaw. That's not to say these people will be a lock for biglaw--but their grades will not prevent them from it.

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Olive
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby Olive » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:51 am

Can any current students comment on the international internship? I notice on the website there a couple listed with several prestigious organizations. I'm sure the competition is stiff but any advice or comments would be great. How about the financial aid for these programs?

Secondly, how financially feasible are the semester long study abroad programs? Anyone doing one of them?

de5igual
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby de5igual » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:39 pm

scaredofdebt wrote:I am deciding between cornell sticker and UT 20k scholarship with out of state tuition.

i am from NYC though would be open to working in texas after school, however, i am worried about my complete and utter lack of ties prohibiting this from being possible. where would a yanke with no ties whatsoever need to land in his or her class in order to overcome a complete lack of ties and land a biglaw job in texas.


Your grades would have to be better than a comparable TX native in getting a Texas gig. If you for sure want TX biglaw, one way to overcome ties is to work in-state over your 1L year and join some organization with a decidedly Texas flavor (e.g., Oil & Gas society).

PM if you have any questions. FYI, I'm out of state, not LR, landed TX biglaw, and was sort of in your shoes 2 years ago.

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Pricer
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby Pricer » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:28 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Top 25% being the cutoff is an unreasonable stretch. Even in the worst of times, the number was around 27% for nlj250, and after you factor in clerkships and non-nlj250 near market firms, it ends up north of 40%. But yeah, going to any T13 would increase the likelihood of landing one of these gigs, but median at UT isn't necessarily a death sentence either.


Yea I agree with almost everything you said. I never said the cut off was top quarter, my original post said it was around a 3.6, which is between top third and top quarter. But I think that 40 number is a bit inflated, since quite a few of the people that are taking clerkships are working for state court judges, so that 40% figure might not be an accurate indication of who can get a big law job.


The results of OCI this year will be much better than 27% for nlj250. People need to keep in mind that was the worst year of legal hiring maybe ever (with the current cravath model). (Though, getting a summer job and then being no-offered like the class before might have actually been a worse position to be in.) UT's nlj numbers in the previous years were close to 40% (high 30's) by themselves. When you include only article III clerkships, the number is easily over 40%. (Keep in mind this isn't even counting the high-end boutiques who pay MORE, either in base salary or in bonuses, than market biglaw.) Then combine this with the knowledge that there are PI people with good grades.

So all that said, saying there is a cut-off near top quarter, even top third is just wrong. People below that will get biglaw. That's not to say these people will be a lock for biglaw--but their grades will not prevent them from it.


Credited. I know people below median who got 1L spring OCI interviews with biglaw firms. I am above median, but I landed multiple biglaw interviews during spring OCI, and so did several other people I know above median. That is just spring OCI for 1L summer. Fall OCI for 2L summer is much bigger, with exponentially more firms and positions available. Haynes & Boone admits they hire from top 50%. I think anyone in the top 50% is biglaw eligible, and women and minorities are eligible even below the 50% line. Between biglaw, boutiques, and clerkships, I don't think median is a bad place to be at all.

utlaw2007
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby utlaw2007 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:05 pm

Credited. I know people below median who got 1L spring OCI interviews with biglaw firms. I am above median, but I landed multiple biglaw interviews during spring OCI, and so did several other people I know above median. That is just spring OCI for 1L summer. Fall OCI for 2L summer is much bigger, with exponentially more firms and positions available. Haynes & Boone admits they hire from top 50%. I think anyone in the top 50% is biglaw eligible, and women and minorities are eligible even below the 50% line. Between biglaw, boutiques, and clerkships, I don't think median is a bad place to be at all.


I graduated from UT Law and this post is correct. I have SEVERAL friends who were at median and received biglaw job offers.

bananabanana
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby bananabanana » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:05 am

Constitutional Law I Lino A Graglia
Property Peter M Gerhart
Civil Procedure Mechele Dickerson
Legal Rsch & Legal Wr Elizabeth M Youngdale

Group 4 C.

Anyone know anything about these professors or is any one in my group!?!

bananabanana
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby bananabanana » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:22 pm

bump-- anyone have general information on the type of exam software that UT uses?

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eaper
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Re: The University of Texas at Austin, School of Law

Postby eaper » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:26 pm

bananabanana wrote:Constitutional Law I Lino A Graglia
Property Peter M Gerhart
Civil Procedure Mechele Dickerson
Legal Rsch & Legal Wr Elizabeth M Youngdale

Group 4 C.

Anyone know anything about these professors or is any one in my group!?!


Check the UT Class of 2015 thread. Some former 1Ls commented on a few profs in there.

ETA: Looks like you already did that.




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