WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[soccerfreak]

Alright, let's do this again. Got our spring schedules yesterday.

Con Law - Magarian
Civ Pro - Lim
Crim Law - Osgood

Any 2Ls/3Ls have any wisdom to drop?

Also, does anyone have any idea what goes into their decision to pair sections for the second semester? If it was purely to "mix it up" so we get to know more people, there's no way they would have kept C and D together. They have to have some ulterior motive.

[Rock Chalk]

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[JCougar]

Second Osgood being awesome. His style of teaching is de minimus, though...he knows everything there is to know about everything, but won't blatantly point stuff out to you or have use any notes on the whiteboard. Class time is simply reading through the cases. And he bolts out of the classroom right away after class before any "podium hawks" can get at him. He does not like to talk to annoying gunners after class. He's receptive during office hours though.

[auntjulia]

I want to bring this thread back to the subject of post-LS employment for a second.

There seems to be a consensus that you need to be somewhere in the top 20% for a strong chance at Biglaw, so what type of jobs are the rest of the class getting? doc review?

I'm interested in WashU because I'm debt averse and I think I could get a good scholarship but I'd like to hear what type of careers people at or below median end up in.

Thanks

[thexfactor]

Id say about 20-25% biglaw/midlaw/ some type of clerkship. I think the number that was floated around last year was that 1/3 of students were employed before graduation? Most students after graduation gain employment with small law firms after graduation.

If you are really risk adverse, i would suggest that you don't go to law school. The problem with going to washu full ride over schools like Cornell is the placement rate. Cornell biglaw is 50%+ while Washu is around 20%. With your stats you might even get lucky to get CCN which places a decent amount better than Cornell.


Even on full ride, it still costs 3 years of your time and prob another 40k for living expenses. If you don't get the big payoff of a biglaw firm then you will be in the same place you were at before law school except slightly worse. No job, 40k in debt. Furthermore, IBR doesn't help as much with 40k. IBR limits payments to 10% of your income and for 20 years. Therefore, chances are that IBR wouldn't help you.

At Cornell you have a coin flip ( maybe more) chance of succeeding and getting biglaw. If you fail there you would have 150k-200k in debt. However, the difference is that IBR can take care of it. it limits payments to 20 years and only 10%. If you do public or non profit work your debts will get paid off in 10 years. Your downside is essentially the same and only slightly worse if you would go to washu full ride.

Your upside just from a beginning pay level isn't quite as high as cornell. 40k in loans vs 150k. However, having a t14 degree might help you in the long run. Lastly, if you do not get biglaw from a school in the t14, other employers outside of law might be more impressed with you if you have a cornell degree as opposed to Washu or ND.

For this trade-off of slightly worse upside and downside risk, you gain a much better chance at hitting your upside potential. Therefore, in my opinion going to a t14 school is better than washu/uiuc/emory full ride.

Lastly, don't assume that just because you are on the top end of the lsat/gpa range that you will do well in law school. Law hiring is mostly based on your first year grades. Each class generally only has 1 exam. With that said, there is some luck involved too.

[rhit2004]

I figured I would provide some employment insight regarding WashU. This will add one more data point of a specific outcome along with class rank.

I am c/o 2011. Top 33%. Work at an AMLaw 200 firm.

[auntjulia]

Xfactor, thanks for the insightful response. I'd really like to work for the federal government or get a clerkship but I know it's super difficult to get either so I want to go somewhere that will afford me decent options in the chance, which I know is entirely incalculable, that I don't get my dream jobs. I'm not opposed to working at a small firm or even in a DA's office.

The main part of your analysis I don't agree with is where you equate 40k from WashU with paying back about 180k with IBR from Cornell. If I get a job paying 60k or more I can comfortably pay back the 40k in ten years, or even less. To still be giving up 10% of my income when I'm in my 40s seems like a much greater downside. I do, however, appreciate the point you make here. IBR is doable and it makes the risk of striking out at Cornell much more palatable.

So, right now I'm just trying to figure out what the range of employment options look like. When I say I'm risk averse, I really just mean that I want to go somewhere that'll leave me with something I'm reasonably happy doing even if I end up a little below median. I recognize that's still a considerable risk but yeah, I can accept that...

[romothesavior]

Any 3Ls taken Kim for employment or Schroeder for CJA previously?

[seatown12]

Lol I'm not in the class but Shroeder supposedly just rambles about his opinions and doesn't even reference the readings except for random notes

[romothesavior]

Lol I'm not in the class but Shroeder supposedly just rambles about his opinions and doesn't even reference the readings except for random notes

I'm in his class now, and this is sorta credited. I admittedly don't pay a whole heck of a lot of attention, but I do enjoy his class when I do. He's a cool dude.

Trying to find someone who knows what to expect on these exams, and maybe hook a brother up with an outline.

[seatown12]

Oh my bad, a different prof (now retired) taught CJA last year

[Oban]

question to other 2Ls, when is registration for spring? Has it already started? I have no idea what is going on.

[romothesavior]

question to other 2Ls, when is registration for spring? Has it already started? I have no idea what is going on.

Tomorrow morning at 7:30. You should prolly get on that, haha.

[romothesavior]

So fucking furious I couldn't get into pretrial I could kick a baby off the 5th floor of AB Hall. Tried to be fast fingers at 7:30 this AM but I guess I wasn't fast enough.

[TatteredDignity]

What kind of system do we have where clicking speed determines whether you can take the classes/clinics you want? That doesn't seem right.

[Oban]

question to other 2Ls, when is registration for spring? Has it already started? I have no idea what is going on.

Tomorrow morning at 7:30. You should prolly get on that, haha.

lol, thanks mang.

[Kabuo]

What kind of system do we have where clicking speed determines whether you can take the classes/clinics you want? That doesn't seem right.

A meritocracy.

[quadsixm]

What kind of system do we have where clicking speed determines whether you can take the classes/clinics you want? That doesn't seem right.

A meritocracy.

LOL i like that

[romothesavior]

What kind of system do we have where clicking speed determines whether you can take the classes/clinics you want? That doesn't seem right.

A meritocracy.

LOL i like that

It's more meritocratic than the grading system, amirite jcougar?

[TatteredDignity]

What kind of system do we have where clicking speed determines whether you can take the classes/clinics you want? That doesn't seem right.

A meritocracy.

LOL i like that

It's more meritocratic than the grading system, amirite jcougar?

You did not just do that.

*grabs popcorn*

[JCougar]

What kind of system do we have where clicking speed determines whether you can take the classes/clinics you want? That doesn't seem right.

The same kind of system where typing speed determines whether you can live in either a mansion by the ocean or in a cardboard box on the outskirts of downtown St. Louis.

I can't resist the urge to go there if you leave the door this wide open.

[romothesavior]

Happy Turkey Day fellow WUSTLers.

Go Cowboys!

[quadsixm]

Happy Turkey Day fellow WUSTLers.

Go Cowboys!

+1 to both!

[robin600]

Since WUSTL is a total whore for LSATS, that makes you a whore-by-proxy.

How do you feel about being a whore?

Not completely true. They took my shitty LSAT for my shiny GPA

Also, for those interested in public interest WashU has one of the best LRAP programs in the country and by far the best in the 15-20 rank range. They also have amazing joint degree programs (I basically got a full ride for their MSW program which is number 1 in the country). Anyone interested in PI work should feel free to send me a PM!

[observationalist]

Since WUSTL is a total whore for LSATS, that makes you a whore-by-proxy.

How do you feel about being a whore?

Not completely true. They took my shitty LSAT for my shiny GPA

Also, for those interested in public interest WashU has one of the best LRAP programs in the country and by far the best in the 15-20 rank range. They also have amazing joint degree programs (I basically got a full ride for their MSW program which is number 1 in the country). Anyone interested in PI work should feel free to send me a PM!

I'm curious, could you elaborate on how the LRAP program works? This is something all schools should be focusing on, given how many graduates simply can't repay >100K in loans with salaries that on average are way below the 85K or so needed to pay loans back on a normal repayment plan.