AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

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florida13
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AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby florida13 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:08 am

Does anyone have any information about Ave Maria Law School in Florida that would be helpful for an incoming student?
Thanks

d34d9823
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby d34d9823 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:10 am

I'm guessing that the name is an apt description of the career prospects.

270910
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby 270910 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:10 am

It was founded by the CEO of a pizza corporation, has an extremely religious bent, and was recently moved from Michigan to Florida. It's also kind of a running joke in legal circles.

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TommyK
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby TommyK » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:32 am

Went to a few Ave parties. It was weird, man. It's very politically and socially conservative. You have people who are conservative because they're very religious. It's a Catholic school so you have a large number of Catholics. You also have people who are conservative because they're racist douches. You also have people who are conservative because they believe in the conservative belief system and they wanted to attend a school that supports their ideology.

There was a guy that went to a halloween costume party dressed in blackface who was supposed to be a "criminal". Another guy was supposed to be a "Mexican", and I think he was wearing some sort of blanket and carrying around a bottle of liquor. It struck me as a fairly homogeneous student population from my informal small sampling of interacting with the students socially (which is probably a biased sample)

But there were also some legitimately decent people too.

I can't speak to academic rigor of the program. It seems that ethics/morality infuse the discussions more than a secular law schoool. I've heard stories of professors comparing homosexuality to beastality. It's not exactly my vibe and most of the people I know that went there either regret going there or transferred out so they would end up not regret graduating from there. They've had a rough last five years or so - have lost some faculty with good pedigrees and good students from the transfer down to Florida.

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Teoeo
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby Teoeo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:36 am

d34dluk3 wrote:I'm guessing that the name is an apt description of the career prospects.


I actually laughed out loud when I read this =)

redsoxfan77
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby redsoxfan77 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:51 am

As was already said Ave Maria University was founded and funded in large part by Thomas Monaghan the founder of Dominoes Pizza. It is part of a larger trend in the founding of new conservative Catholic universities to offset the loss of traditional Catholic identity in CINO universities.

There are links of course in Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ave_maria_law_school, and their own website. That in legal circles that it is not taken seriously should not be much of a surprise. It is proudly Catholic and conservative. That's a dangerous combination in academia. Given the more liberal nature of most lawyers and viola, the general opinion has been formed. As for a law school, the brevity of it's existence means that an alumni network is non-existent. This will mean harder work than in many other schools for finding a job after graduation.

The good news is that among conservative Catholic circles the reputation is very well received and the it's star as a university is still very much on the rise. Is it the best school to attend? If you seriously looking at it, then I assume you to be conservative and a Catholic. That being the case, you could find it to be very satisfying. If you are neither you might want to think twice about attending.

My take on Ave Maria is this: in less than generation it will be considered the Catholic version of Pepperdine University. Liberals will continue to bake up half brained stories about how racist and bigoted Ave Maria students are as evidenced by their parties. It will also be compared to Bob Jones University, despite the lack of any Supreme Court rulings on the universities practices. The university as a whole will survive and grow substantially. Eventually one day it will grudgingly be accepted as a legitimate law school with a top 100 ranking within 30 years.

Either way good luck!

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merichard87
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby merichard87 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:07 am

Top 100? Within 30 years? I'm scared to be a part of this scary future.

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bk1
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby bk1 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:25 am

redsoxfan77 wrote:Is it the best school to attend? If you seriously looking at it, then I assume you to be conservative enjoy debt and a Catholic unemployment. That being the case, you could find it to be very satisfying.


FTFY

d34d9823
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby d34d9823 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:54 am

redsoxfan77 wrote:I swallowed Ave Maria's website.

redsoxfan77
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby redsoxfan77 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:24 pm

merichard87 wrote:Top 100? Within 30 years? I'm scared to be a part of this scary future.



Well with the relative end of "generation narcissus" within that time period society should move back to middle from the extreme. This should result in a more moderate academia in which schools like Ave Maria will become more accepted. Also a decent alumni network should be in place by 2040. I see no reason why this cannot or would not be.

Tell you what: I'll bet you a pepsi on it.

redsoxfan77
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby redsoxfan77 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:25 pm

bk1 wrote:
redsoxfan77 wrote:Is it the best school to attend? If you seriously looking at it, then I assume you to be conservative enjoy debt and a Catholic unemployment. That being the case, you could find it to be very satisfying.


FTFY

:lol:

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merichard87
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby merichard87 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:44 pm

redsoxfan77 wrote:
merichard87 wrote:Top 100? Within 30 years? I'm scared to be a part of this scary future.



Well with the relative end of "generation narcissus" within that time period society should move back to middle from the extreme. This should result in a more moderate academia in which schools like Ave Maria will become more accepted. Also a decent alumni network should be in place by 2040. I see no reason why this cannot or would not be.

Tell you what: I'll bet you a pepsi on it.


I don't like Pepsi or Coke for that matter. And its not that I don't think it will be a decent school in 30 years but I doubt it will be Top100. There are just too many other better schools.

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General Tso
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby General Tso » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:47 pm

it isn't its "proud Catholic/conservative identity" that makes it a crappy school.

it's a crappy T4 that gets no respect in legal circles and most likely will not get you a job paying north of 30k a year. at least not in the legal field anyway.

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bk1
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby bk1 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:48 pm

redsoxfan77 wrote:
merichard87 wrote:Top 100? Within 30 years? I'm scared to be a part of this scary future.



Well with the relative end of "generation narcissus" within that time period society should move back to middle from the extreme. This should result in a more moderate academia in which schools like Ave Maria will become more accepted. Also a decent alumni network should be in place by 2040. I see no reason why this cannot or would not be.

Tell you what: I'll bet you a pepsi on it.


Hello troll.

redsoxfan77
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby redsoxfan77 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:27 am

Whatever. We all know that there is flexibility in the rankings over a period of a year. Now imagine how much a law school given 30 years might change in rankings. There is a large possibility that a school can jump from T4 to T2 or even T1 in that time. I claimed at least T2. This is not a absurd claim. To argue otherwise is to live in a fantasy world.

As for financial prospects they're not the best out there and I was very realistic in my earlier statement on such. They're not terrible nor are they the worst out there. Seriously, if you graduate in the US with a JD and cannot get a job making 30k+ you're just lazy.

Finally, how does seriously commenting on the probabilities of a law schools performance on a law school thread make me a troll? Commenting that baby boomers are narcissistic ? Please. There is no new insight in that statement.

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JG Hall
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby JG Hall » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:32 am

I think this thread just gave me an abortion.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby Fark-o-vision » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:07 am

redsoxfan77 wrote:As was already said Ave Maria University was founded and funded in large part by Thomas Monaghan the founder of Dominoes Pizza. It is part of a larger trend in the founding of new conservative Catholic universities to offset the loss of traditional Catholic identity in CINO universities.

There are links of course in Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ave_maria_law_school, and their own website. That in legal circles that it is not taken seriously should not be much of a surprise. It is proudly Catholic and conservative. That's a dangerous combination in academia. Given the more liberal nature of most lawyers and viola, the general opinion has been formed. As for a law school, the brevity of it's existence means that an alumni network is non-existent. This will mean harder work than in many other schools for finding a job after graduation.

The good news is that among conservative Catholic circles the reputation is very well received and the it's star as a university is still very much on the rise. Is it the best school to attend? If you seriously looking at it, then I assume you to be conservative and a Catholic. That being the case, you could find it to be very satisfying. If you are neither you might want to think twice about attending.

My take on Ave Maria is this: in less than generation it will be considered the Catholic version of Pepperdine University. Liberals will continue to bake up half brained stories about how racist and bigoted Ave Maria students are as evidenced by their parties. It will also be compared to Bob Jones University, despite the lack of any Supreme Court rulings on the universities practices. The university as a whole will survive and grow substantially. Eventually one day it will grudgingly be accepted as a legitimate law school with a top 100 ranking within 30 years.

Either way good luck!


The problem with this is that your lumping all religious schools together. What about BYU? Pepperdine got to where it was by attracting a successful dean who could bring jobs and respect to the campus. Although most of us don't respect the man, he was (in my very, very limited experience with legal types) viewed as a bit of a martyr because of what went down. Ken Starr carried incredible cache with him. Get a few quality faculty members together and voila! The rise in rankings.

Ave Maria attracts too large a class, dislocated itself from a successful spot in Michigan because Monaghan (sorry on the spelling) is a power hungry douche, and chased away the talented faculty it did have. From what I understand it actually was viewed as an up and coming law school until the proceeding happened.

redsoxfan77
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby redsoxfan77 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:52 am

Fark-o-vision wrote:
redsoxfan77 wrote:As was already said Ave Maria University was founded and funded in large part by Thomas Monaghan the founder of Dominoes Pizza. It is part of a larger trend in the founding of new conservative Catholic universities to offset the loss of traditional Catholic identity in CINO universities.

There are links of course in Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ave_maria_law_school, and their own website. That in legal circles that it is not taken seriously should not be much of a surprise. It is proudly Catholic and conservative. That's a dangerous combination in academia. Given the more liberal nature of most lawyers and viola, the general opinion has been formed. As for a law school, the brevity of it's existence means that an alumni network is non-existent. This will mean harder work than in many other schools for finding a job after graduation.

The good news is that among conservative Catholic circles the reputation is very well received and the it's star as a university is still very much on the rise. Is it the best school to attend? If you seriously looking at it, then I assume you to be conservative and a Catholic. That being the case, you could find it to be very satisfying. If you are neither you might want to think twice about attending.

My take on Ave Maria is this: in less than generation it will be considered the Catholic version of Pepperdine University. Liberals will continue to bake up half brained stories about how racist and bigoted Ave Maria students are as evidenced by their parties. It will also be compared to Bob Jones University, despite the lack of any Supreme Court rulings on the universities practices. The university as a whole will survive and grow substantially. Eventually one day it will grudgingly be accepted as a legitimate law school with a top 100 ranking within 30 years.

Either way good luck!


The problem with this is that your lumping all religious schools together. What about BYU? Pepperdine got to where it was by attracting a successful dean who could bring jobs and respect to the campus. Although most of us don't respect the man, he was (in my very, very limited experience with legal types) viewed as a bit of a martyr because of what went down. Ken Starr carried incredible cache with him. Get a few quality faculty members together and voila! The rise in rankings.

Ave Maria attracts too large a class, dislocated itself from a successful spot in Michigan because Monaghan (sorry on the spelling) is a power hungry douche, and chased away the talented faculty it did have. From what I understand it actually was viewed as an up and coming law school until the proceeding happened.


I would have BYU in the same boat as Pepperdine. Heck, we could have said Notre Dame had this conversation taken place 50 years ago. It doesn't matter. The point of the message still gets across. There is no reason to list every possibility that could aptly fit.

As for Monaghan's move of Ave Maria to Florida; that could potentially be a valid reason to negatively critique the program. Then again it could have been an astute business move. I'll ask for a clarification on why they chose to move the university to Florida over choosing to stay in Michigan. That way at least their official reasoning can be brought into the discussion. As the program is only about 10 years old and that personnel changes in Academia are common and frequent I'm really not that concerned with the loss of some professors. That they lost professors over the move shouldn't be surprising to anyone. It's hard to ask someone to move from their homes to keep their jobs. There is no reason why they can't be viewed as up and coming in a few years if it's not viewed that way now.

d34d9823
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby d34d9823 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:49 am

redsoxfan77 wrote:As for Monaghan's move of Ave Maria to Florida; that could potentially be a valid reason to negatively critique the program. Then again it could have been an astute business move. I'll ask for a clarification on why they chose to move the university to Florida over choosing to stay in Michigan. That way at least their official reasoning can be brought into the discussion. As the program is only about 10 years old and that personnel changes in Academia are common and frequent I'm really not that concerned with the loss of some professors. That they lost professors over the move shouldn't be surprising to anyone. It's hard to ask someone to move from their homes to keep their jobs. There is no reason why they can't be viewed as up and coming in a few years if it's not viewed that way now.

Stop acting like this has any relevance. People at T14s are struggling to find jobs. Even if Ave Maria weren't crappy to start with (which it is), everything below T1 is crap in this economy.

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bk1
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby bk1 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:44 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:Stop acting like this has any relevance. People at T14s are struggling to find jobs. Even if Ave Maria weren't crappy to start with (which it is), everything below T1 is crap in this economy.


Somebody's feeling gracious. :P

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St.Remy
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby St.Remy » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:50 pm

JG Hall wrote:I think this thread just gave me an abortion.


How Ironic.

redsoxfan77
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby redsoxfan77 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:43 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
redsoxfan77 wrote:As for Monaghan's move of Ave Maria to Florida; that could potentially be a valid reason to negatively critique the program. Then again it could have been an astute business move. I'll ask for a clarification on why they chose to move the university to Florida over choosing to stay in Michigan. That way at least their official reasoning can be brought into the discussion. As the program is only about 10 years old and that personnel changes in Academia are common and frequent I'm really not that concerned with the loss of some professors. That they lost professors over the move shouldn't be surprising to anyone. It's hard to ask someone to move from their homes to keep their jobs. There is no reason why they can't be viewed as up and coming in a few years if it's not viewed that way now.

Stop acting like this has any relevance. People at T14s are struggling to find jobs. Even if Ave Maria weren't crappy to start with (which it is), everything below T1 is crap in this economy.



LOL, Has no relevance? HA!

You mean to explain that a school moving locations and not retaining it's full staff as a result of that move has no relevance to the performance of the institution in any way? That this move, in which professors had been lost, has no bearing at all? I'll chalk this one up to your ignorance of what the intentions of the board of trustees had been initially.

From all that I have gathered Ave Maria did not plan to stay forever in Michigan. They had used it's campus there for an interim site until the land acquisition in Florida was complete. Then they moved to a interim site in Naples and then off to the constructed permanent campus in Ave Maria, Florida.

How does this make it relevant to the schools performance? Simple. The university has the infrastructure in place now that it wants and never had in Michigan. Now it can expand and develop as the board sees fit. Now the whole university can grow in a way that can leads to the development of the school's integrity. The move from Michigan would (and did) undoubtedly have a cost, in terms of the loss of personnel, the university. Yet, that was a cost that the university was willing to make in order to, in time, gain more profit and rank than they felt had been possible at the Michigan campus. This loss is not a long term problem . It is a short term problem. Furthermore, the whole move is working out exactly as the board had hoped. That is relevant because it shows that the leadership of the university still has the development of the university as being right on track. It is when the development goes contrary to the established game plan that there is then trouble. Trouble which has not materialized at Ave Maria at all.

As for the poor t1 people who are having trouble finding a job, big deal. Perhaps they should have performed better at their internships. Perhaps they should have relied a bit more on class rank than school reputation. Perhaps they should stop crying, sack up and start a law firm of their own. A man makes his own destiny in this world. The economy isn't going to be crappy forever. They'll just have to get by the way the rest of us do in the meantime.

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bk1
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby bk1 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:49 pm

Not sure if serious.

d34d9823
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby d34d9823 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:58 pm

redsoxfan77 wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:Stop acting like this has any relevance. People at T14s are struggling to find jobs. Even if Ave Maria weren't crappy to start with (which it is), everything below T1 is crap in this economy.



LOL, Has no relevance? HA!

You mean to explain that a school moving locations and not retaining it's full staff as a result of that move has no relevance to the performance of the institution in any way?

No, I mean that the school itself has no relevance. HTH

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dresden doll
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Re: AVE MARIA LAW SCHOOL

Postby dresden doll » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:05 pm

You're an incoming student? You didn't think to ask this question months ago, when you first considered attending this abomination of an LS?

Also, someone should check the IP address for red's lulzy screeds. I fear he may be posting from Ave Maria's administrative offices.




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