University of Hawaii at Manoa School of Law Forum

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University of Hawaii at Manoa The Williams S. Richards School of Law is located in Honolulu, HI. It appears on the Top Law Schools Rankings page.

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[PelesGrrl]

does anyone have any thoughts or experiences with this school? are they very choosy with their admissions?
i'm planning on applying there for next fall (aug. 2008) and just wanted to get some feedback on the place.

[bartlet]

Hi there,

I did my UG at UH and was accepted at Richardson. They are relatively selective. I think they accept around 18% of applicants (I think). Though they are still low tier 2 (not that there's anything wrong with that), so if your numbers are pretty good you'll be in good shape. One bit of advice I can definitely offer is that they love people that intend to stay and practice in Hawaii and contribute to the community. If you at all have that in your plans, I would play it up in your PS.

(Now that I look at your name, it looks like you are a local girl. In which case, get good numbers, keep up your gpa, and you should be fine.)

[greentree]

How does this JD do if you move off the island?
Thank you.

[jonas]

This is very anecdotal, but I met an attorney at an ACLU conference recently who had gone to UH. She had specialized in Japanese law at UH. She said a number of US firms that do work in Japan recruit at UH and that she'd had no trouble getting a job off the island. She was working in DC, Virginia, or Maryland--I can't remember which--for a large firm, doing some sort of international business law.

[ndhwn]

How does this JD do if you move off the island?

I've been searching for the answer to this question for some time now. I'm aching to move back to the mainland, but it's difficult to ignore the economic benefits of attending UH.

For the most part, UH is VERY MUCH a regional school and they've tailored their curriculum to reflect the legal market in Hawaii as well as the Pacific Rim. As Bartlet mentioned earlier, they 'prefer' applicants who have showed an interest to practice in Hawaii. Of course, there are always exceptions.

Using Martindale's, I contacted three lawyers working for BigLaw firms in NYC and one who is a partner in a BigLaw firm in Chicago. All four of them confirmed that it was bloody hell for them to secure these jobs. The three in New York actually entered the market through the summer associate program for a BigLaw firm in NYC (apparently, this firm interviews at UH).

The BigLaw partner in Chicago is actually from Chicago and went to UIUC for undergrad. It was because of this that she was able to find a connection in to the firm where she is currently working. All four of them told me that there is mobility with a Richardson JD, but that it takes a lot of footwork, persistence, and a little luck to secure something outside of Hawaii.

As Jonas mentioned earlier, firms who seek international law (especially East/Southeast Asia) applicants will try to recruit from UH.

Sorry for the novel. Hope this helps.

[kayc]

If you are planning to move from Hawaii, I would NOT recommend UH Law School. Yes, there's the cliche that "you make your own opportunities" but you need to attend a law school which will at least unlock the door so you can get your foot in it. As a local girl, I did not bother applying to UH since my intent is to practice in Chicago or the East Coast. As for price, I received a lot of scholarship money, including 4 full tuition scholarships from mainland schools.

[ndhwn]

If you are planning to move from Hawaii, I would NOT recommend UH Law School.

Of course. I don't think it's wise under most circumstances to attend UH with the sole intention of seeking a job elsewhere. While it certainly wouldn't hurt to keep your eyes open, I believe that one should be about 90% sure that they want to work in Hawaii after graduation before they decide to apply to Richardson.

My dream is to return to ND for law school and hopefully practice in Chicago.

On the other hand, my decision to attend Richardson would be coupled with my desire to stay here for the long term.

[bartlet]

From what I've seen with regards to UH, if you do well they have excellent placement here in Hawaii. For example, a good UH student has a very strong shot at clerking for HI Supreme Court. I think if you do well at UH, then do some strong work in HI for a few years it might be much easier to move to the mainland if you want. I guess that kind of goes without saying, but still... it's worth keeping in mind.

[ndhwn]

Bartlet - Good Point. My primary issue is that, despite my desire to move back, I'm starting to settle in to my life here quite nicely. I'm slowly beginning to realize that I'm warming up to the idea of staying here for the long haul.

By the way, congratulations on your multiple acceptances (I was checking on LSN. It's quite funny to see UH alongside Georgetown, NYU, and Harvard. I also noticed that you're still waiting on Stanford and Yale, so I'm guessing you probably haven't made a decision yet.

Is there any chance in hell you're going to UH?

[bartlet]

Thanks ndhawn. Heh, it is pretty unlikely that I am not going to UH at this point. I applied to them to ensure that I wouldn't have to leave Hawaii if I didn't want to (mainly for family reasons), but I'm fairly excited about Harvard, and would be even more excited about Stanford or Yale.

You are very correct. I have not decided. I'm still holding out for S/Y. Also, I'm late on my finaid paperwork, so when and how much money I get will help decide. Unfortunately, I've fairly ruled out NYU because they make it pretty difficult to get money from them. It's actually quite a bit easier at Harvard (at least it seems so for me).

Anyway, thanks much for the congrats. Best of luck to you on ND (if that ends up being what you want). One point on that issue: when I was applying, I knew that eventually I want to end up back here. It's just a question of how long, and what I will do in the meantime. But because I knew I wanted to work on the mainland for a while, and hopefully do appellate work and clerk, I figured it would make sense to go away for law school. I think it'll be a lot easier for me to come back here with a T14 degree if/when I choose, than to go to the mainland and find that kind of work later with a UH degree.

Thanks again. Talk to you soon.

EDIT: oh yeah, and the fact that UH's tuition deposit is due 4/2, while Harvard, NYU, UVa, etc. is due 4/30 or 5/1 is the other reason I'll have to rule out UH.

[Jumper]

Help me out here, you want to move from Hawaii to Chicago? Then what, work your butt off at BigLaw to make enough money to go to Hawaii on vacations?

Relatedly, is it manageable getting a job in Hawaii coming from a T14 school or do they prefer only to hire from schools on the island?

[bartlet]

In my (extremely ignorant) opinion, I think you'd get a job in Hawaii just fine coming from a T14. I know, for instance, that there are quite a few GULC alums here. However, it is worth noting that Hawaii is one of the most nepotistic (is that a word) places around. If you're looking at similarly ranked schools (UH is 91 in the '07 USNWR), I'd definitely go with UH if you want to work here.

Oh, and to address you first point, there is a reason Stanford and the Bay area are my first choice. It's really hard to leave paradise. Problem is the career opportunities are more limited here. There are certain areas of law you just wont get many opportunities to work in here.

[ndhwn]

Relatedly, is it manageable getting a job in Hawaii coming from a T14 school or do they prefer only to hire from schools on the island?

Bartlet brought up a good point about life in Hawaii. Hawaii is traditionally known for being steeped in nepotism. However, the trend appears to be changing. Since returning to the islands two years ago, I've noticed that the demographic here is shifting. In my opinion, The 'good old boys' networks appears to be on its way out in favor of highly qualified 'transplants' from the mainland.

I think that you would definitely not have a hard time obtaining a job in Hawaii with a T14 degree. However, I would not recommend going to a T14 school and starting out your career here. Hawaii is notorious for having one of the highest costs of living (in fact, I think we're second only to San Francisco) and an average salary which does not match up to the cost of living. I think the starting salaries for 1st year associates in the top firms here averages around $80,000. If you have any loans coming out of a T14, then you will find it tougher to cover this loan while paying for the cost of living here.

For example, the median price for a house here is nearing $700,000. The median price for an apartment...$400,000.

Of course, it all depends on what you want to do.

[ndhwn]

Help me out here, you want to move from Hawaii to Chicago? Then what, work your butt off at BigLaw to make enough money to go to Hawaii on vacations?

Believe it or not, I've missed Chicago ever since I've moved back home. Give me lake effect snow and a -10 degree windchill any day of the week. While it is nice to be warm for the entire year, it sucks that you can never get that lining of sweat and oil off. I know you probably want to kick my ass for complaining about it, but there are many things that are not easily done here.

I've never thought of going to Hawaii as 'going on vacation.' It's always been home to me. So, in terms of vacation, I would probably head to Europe or Asia. However, if I were to go to Hawaii, it would simply be 'going home'.

[wrichcirw]

Bump.

How is Manoa for those going JAG? I know the military is the 2nd largest industry in HI - does ROTC figure in well at the school?

[liannel]

As for JAG, UH does have students who pursue careers in the military. They also have at least one professor that worked as a JAG attorney.

Here is a link to a student profile of a current student who is pursuing JAG:
http://www.law.hawaii.edu/student-profi ... vandenberg

Professor Conway is a major in the U.S. Army Reserve and a former JAG attorney. Here is an article about her:
http://www.law.hawaii.edu/news/2007/03/04

As for the discussion of whether or not to go to mainland schools or UH, I would definitely go to UH if you want to work in UH. I was accepted at mainland law schools and decided to go to UH. I do not regret my choice at all. I am interested in family law and the law school has provided me with so many networking opportunities. I have externed for judges and I know most of the family law attorneys in Hawaii and they know me as well! In Hawaii, getting a job is more about who you know than what grades you got in law school. So I would definitely recommend UH. The level of quality in the education is unbeatable for the price.