Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000+ IN STATE, 74000 OOS

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peeved
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Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000+ IN STATE, 74000 OOS

Postby peeved » Tue May 04, 2010 11:04 am

Released for current students yesterday.
Last edited by peeved on Wed May 05, 2010 2:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

tamlyric
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby tamlyric » Tue May 04, 2010 11:08 am

peeved wrote:Released for current students yesterday.


Surely that includes cost of living expenses? Right? :shock:

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swc65
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby swc65 » Tue May 04, 2010 11:09 am

on the website it reads 44k. Did they change it again?

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm

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najumobi
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby najumobi » Tue May 04, 2010 11:15 am

tamlyric wrote:
peeved wrote:Released for current students yesterday.


Surely that includes cost of living expenses? Right? :shock:
that's still a lot.....what is the total cost of attendance for the year for out of state students?

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webbylu87
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby webbylu87 » Tue May 04, 2010 11:16 am

When the Regents approved the fee increases for the 2010-11 academic year, they were also provided proposed fee level increases for the 2011-12 and 2012 academic years. Thus, total resident fees for Berkeley Law students during the 2010-11 academic year will be $44,220 and the estimated total resident fees for the 2011-12 and 2012-13 academic years will be $49,347 and $51,815 respectively.

...

For nonresident students, total nonresident fees will be $52,220 for the 2010-2011 academic year. During the 2011-12 and 2012-13 academic years, the proposed nonresident fees will be $54,830 and $57,573 respectively. Nonresidents should note that it is possible to establish California residency for tuition purposes during the first year of law school. Information about establishing residency is to be available at http://registrar.berkeley.edu/ssvc.html.


http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm

Holy s***balls.

thwalls
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby thwalls » Tue May 04, 2010 11:23 am

Wow, they're really giving residents a HUGE discount.

GermX
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby GermX » Tue May 04, 2010 1:00 pm

Whyw ould anyone go to Berkley anyways, its gay.

09042014
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby 09042014 » Tue May 04, 2010 1:04 pm

GermX wrote:Whyw ould anyone go to Berkley anyways, its gay.


I wish I were cool enough to be gay, but they won't let me.

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forza
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby forza » Tue May 04, 2010 1:07 pm

--ImageRemoved--

GermX
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby GermX » Tue May 04, 2010 1:24 pm

^ lol!

I meant gay in a gamer way, not gay gay.

GermX
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby GermX » Tue May 04, 2010 2:35 pm

Only if you find it funny.

GermX
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby GermX » Tue May 04, 2010 2:39 pm

Why, if you didn't laugh, then I wasn't trying to be funny. It's a necessary requirement.

general100
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby general100 » Tue May 04, 2010 2:40 pm

The proposed fee increases for 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 have been on the website for a while -- it doesn't seem like anything has changed.

Also, Boalt has repeatedly promised to keep in-state tuition/fees at 90% of the market rate at peer schools (though they haven not defined who these peers are...). Hope that they can keep it.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Tue May 04, 2010 2:46 pm

Wait, I'm confused. Is this person a troll? I thought they had already definitively announced the fees for the next several years. From the Boalt site:

"Thus, total resident fees for Berkeley Law students during the 2010-11 academic year will be $44,220 and the estimated total resident fees for the 2011-12 and 2012-13 academic years will be $49,347 and $51,815 respectively."

66k in-state tuition and fees must include cost of living, because that sounds about right. 66k for just "tuition and fees" would be fucking ridiculously absurd and is clearly not the case.

P.S. "66,000k" is actually $66,000,000. :wink:

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ConMan345
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby ConMan345 » Tue May 04, 2010 2:56 pm

Just for comparison, the student budget at Stanford for 2010-2011 is $73.5k.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Tue May 04, 2010 2:57 pm

Correction: Boalt has merely "projected" the fees for 2011-2012 and 2012-2013. But next year (a.k.a. 2010-2011) had already been announced months ago. 66k in-state for just "tuition and fees" (which is the phrase Boalt uses for JUST the educational expenses, not cost of living) would be completely off the mark and about 50% higher than the already big hikes they have already announced...i.e. that would be insane.

Whereas 66k for in-state tuition, fees, and cost of living would be in line with what had already been announced earlier this year.

Feynman
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby Feynman » Tue May 04, 2010 3:05 pm

Obviously the OP is off (or including CoL).

Boalt's tuition is ridiculous though, especially with the high cost of living in Berkeley (and low quality of life). Their tuition surge coupled with California's implosion make me wonder how long Berkeley can hold onto the T10.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby worldtraveler » Tue May 04, 2010 5:50 pm

Feynman wrote:Obviously the OP is off (or including CoL).

Boalt's tuition is ridiculous though, especially with the high cost of living in Berkeley (and low quality of life). Their tuition surge coupled with California's implosion make me wonder how long Berkeley can hold onto the T10.


It includes COL.

And where in the world are people getting this "OMG tuition is going up!!! Berkeley is going to fall out of the T10." It's going up to keep it in the T10. It's to hire faculty, get a better LRAP, better building, and give more merit aid to high LSAT/GPA kids. The state budget crisis has very, very little to do with the law school's tuition, which is the same to Michigan and Virginia, the other T10 state schools.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue May 04, 2010 6:07 pm

Feynman wrote:Obviously the OP is off (or including CoL).

Boalt's tuition is ridiculous though, especially with the high cost of living in Berkeley (and low quality of life). Their tuition surge coupled with California's implosion make me wonder how long Berkeley can hold onto the T10.


Do you think there's a shortage of kids willing to pay sticker for Berkeley? If you don't have the numbers for Stanford and want California what else are you going to do? This won't hurt them very much.

Additionally they could just readjust their index if push came to shove. Right now they put a heavy emphasis on GPA and "softs" compared to peer schools. They could just change the composition of their acceptances to secure their median numbers (like what UVA does with ED splitters or put less emphasis on character).

Feynman
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby Feynman » Tue May 04, 2010 6:13 pm

KibblesAndVick wrote:
Feynman wrote:Obviously the OP is off (or including CoL).

Boalt's tuition is ridiculous though, especially with the high cost of living in Berkeley (and low quality of life). Their tuition surge coupled with California's implosion make me wonder how long Berkeley can hold onto the T10.


Do you think there's a shortage of kids willing to pay sticker for Berkeley? If you don't have the numbers for Stanford and want California what else are you going to do? This won't hurt them very much.

Additionally they could just readjust their index if push came to shove. Right now they put a heavy emphasis on GPA and "softs" compared to peer schools. They could just change the composition of their acceptances to secure their median numbers (like what UVA does with ED splitters or put less emphasis on character).


Other things being equal, these tuition increases are going to hurt them. Why avoid the truth? Of course there will be any number of people willing to pay sticker. But for those candiates who get into multiple T10s (the desirable students), it's going to be a factor that weighs against Boalt, especially because Berkeley COL is so expensive in the first place.

Boalt's solid T10 status is a recent development. Sky-rocketing tuition might put that at risk.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue May 04, 2010 6:28 pm

Feynman wrote:
KibblesAndVick wrote:
Feynman wrote:Obviously the OP is off (or including CoL).

Boalt's tuition is ridiculous though, especially with the high cost of living in Berkeley (and low quality of life). Their tuition surge coupled with California's implosion make me wonder how long Berkeley can hold onto the T10.


Do you think there's a shortage of kids willing to pay sticker for Berkeley? If you don't have the numbers for Stanford and want California what else are you going to do? This won't hurt them very much.

Additionally they could just readjust their index if push came to shove. Right now they put a heavy emphasis on GPA and "softs" compared to peer schools. They could just change the composition of their acceptances to secure their median numbers (like what UVA does with ED splitters or put less emphasis on character).


Other things being equal, these tuition increases are going to hurt them. Why avoid the truth? Of course there will be any number of people willing to pay sticker. But for those candiates who get into multiple T10s (the desirable students), it's going to be a factor that weighs against Boalt, especially because Berkeley COL is so expensive in the first place.

Boalt's solid T10 status is a recent development. Sky-rocketing tuition might put that at risk.


I think it's a fair assumption that the demand for a law degree from Berkeley is fairly inelastic. That is, as they jack the price, the demand will only drop slightly. One reason for this is the lack of alternatives. There are a lot of applicants from California who don't want to live on the East Coast for three years. Within the T-14 this limits their options. If they want to stay in Cali and can't get Stanford, they don't have a better option. Moreover, many applicants are from wealthy families and won't base their admissions decision on the tuition changes. Finally, the bottom of the class that pays sticker subsidizes the top that gets scholarships. If you're getting a big tuition break you're in the same boat (or boalt) as the rich kids. That is, money isn't the issue. There are other reasons why demand wound be inelastic such as the misguided perception of some applicants that they'll inevitably become a rich lawyer and this is just a bump in the road.

What I'm getting at is that this won't scare off enough applicants to significantly lower their GPA/LSAT medians. And, even if it did I'm assuming the powers that be would rather game the rankings than fall in the rankings. Students are replaceable in this sense.

Feynman
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby Feynman » Tue May 04, 2010 6:34 pm

I think it's a fair assumption that the demand for a law degree from Berkeley is fairly inelastic.


Just a few years ago their 25% LSAT was in the low 160s, even though it was still the second best law school in Cali at the time. So the pull you describe isn't as strong as you think it is.

And, like I said, tuition increases are not the only concern. Berkeley places a huge percent of its graduates and Cali and Cali is not doing so hot (and probably will never recover its former glory).

Edited to explain myself further.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue May 04, 2010 6:52 pm

Feynman wrote:
I think it's a fair assumption that the demand for a law degree from Berkeley is fairly inelastic.


Just a few years ago their 25% LSAT was in the low 160s. You are wrong.


But they can manipulate the medians based on who they let in and who they don't. If we assume (1) there's a sizable pool of (relatively) high LSAT splitters at UCLA and USC and (2) enough of these students would rather attend Berkeley than USC/UCLA then it shouldn't be difficult for Berkeley to keep their medians constant by taking on splitters. The 170/3.4 student and the 166/3.75 student both lower the median GPA. But the 2nd student is at the LSAT median (I think, if the median is no longer 166 just think of an example with the new median) and the 1st would raise it. Currently, because they favor high GPAs, they are admitting a lot more of the "2nd" than the "1st". However, if they wanted to keep their medians constant they could just snipe off UCLA/USC students with high LSAT scores. This wouldn't hurt their median GPA because a 2.0 and a 3.7 do the exact same amount of damage.

Moreover, I don't see how the fact that they recently raised their 25% LSAT supports the contention the the demand for their law degrees is not inelastic. Did they significantly cut tuition in the past few years resulting in a flood of highly qualified applicants that raised the 25%?

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue May 04, 2010 7:01 pm

If y'all map out tuition + COL for Berk's competitors you'll see they're all very similar and that Berk used to be a bargain and is now comparable. Rankings aren't all they're cracked up to be. Boalt has solid placement in corporate, PI, academia and clerkships. Boalt has solid national placement. You can obsess over minute differences in hiring percentages all of you want or minute differences in rankings all you want, but Boalt and its peer schools are all very good and all of them provide solid career prospects.

Feynman
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Re: Boalt's tuition next year. 66,000k+ IN STATE tuition & fees

Postby Feynman » Tue May 04, 2010 7:13 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:If y'all map out tuition + COL for Berk's competitors you'll see they're all very similar and that Berk used to be a bargain and is now comparable. Rankings aren't all they're cracked up to be. Boalt has solid placement in corporate, PI, academia and clerkships. Boalt has solid national placement. You can obsess over minute differences in hiring percentages all of you want or minute differences in rankings all you want, but Boalt and its peer schools are all very good and all of them provide solid career prospects.


Looking at MVP that just isn't true. Total CoA is probably 20K cheaper or so for those schools (for all three years). I am guessing that gap will only expand as Berkeley continues to ratchet its tuition higher.

Boalt is a fine school and will continue to be. But I don't see the motivation to spin the tuition increases as irrelevant. Of course, the capital improvements which are being financed by those increases have helped Boalt. Personally, I think they are just going too fast and too high.




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