Davis 3L taking questions

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davis3l
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Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:42 pm

Fire away.

sccjnthn
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby sccjnthn » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:48 pm

Do you know anyone who received merit aid or do they only give out need based assistance?
If you considered Hastings what made you choose UCD over it?
Thank you for taking questions.

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Eigenvalue A
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Eigenvalue A » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:06 pm

Thanks for taking questions!

+1 on the merit aid question above

Also,

What is the OCI outlook for Davis students?
How big are 1L classes?
Are group study sessions a norm or do most students opt for individual studying?
How isolated is the law school from the rest of the campus?
Do law students get membership to the campus gym?

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:07 pm

sccjnthn wrote:Do you know anyone who received merit aid or do they only give out need based assistance?
If you considered Hastings what made you choose UCD over it?
Thank you for taking questions.


1. I know people who received merit aid after making really high 1L grades...basically to bribe them away from transferring. I don't know anyone who received merit aid before 1L. However, I think most incoming 1Ls get some kind of grant in the 5k range (unless your parents are rich or something). And then your 2nd and 3rd years, there is a good chance your grants will increase a bit.

2. Davis v. Hastings. At the time, I picked Davis for 2 reasons - location and collegiality. But now as I look back, the collegiality thing is almost a non-factor. It's true that Davis students and faculty are super nice, but it's not like Hastings people are psychos. In the end, you'll meet cool people and idiots anywhere you go. What I'm getting at is, while Davis is probably slightly friendlier than most places, it's not a major enough difference to influence where you attend law school.
As for location, if you like urban life, you'll probably like Hastings more. If you like more of a peaceful lifestyle, Davis is it. Simple as that. I personally like my stress-free, 5 minute drive to school. I like the predictability of living in Davis.
Also, people will throw around all kinds of stats comparing the 2 schools (big firm placement, clerkships, blah blah blah). Bottom line, your employment prospects will be similar from either school. I think the Davis v. Hastings decision hinges almost entirely on which location you prefer.

finalaspects
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby finalaspects » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:12 pm

how are your OCI's? did the economy affect Davis Law grads in a major way?

around what top % does davis law grads need to be to get big law? top 15%? I know there will always be exceptions but overall?

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:22 pm

Eigenvalue A wrote:Thanks for taking questions!

+1 on the merit aid question above

Also,

What is the OCI outlook for Davis students?
How big are 1L classes?
Are group study sessions a norm or do most students opt for individual studying?
How isolated is the law school from the rest of the campus?
Do law students get membership to the campus gym?


1. OCI - obviously it's been tough the last couple years. I have no idea how many current 2Ls got OCI jobs this year. For the current 3L class, roughly 30% got jobs during 2L OCI. I believe about 10% of those were public interest/DA/attorney general jobs. So 20% got private firm jobs. As for how many of those jobs translated to post-grad jobs...I have no idea.

Don't be misled by schools pimping how many firms do OCI there. Like Hastings has a few hundred firms do OCI, while Davis has 150-200. But there are also half the number of students at Davis. As a general rule, if the schools are similarly ranked, and in the same region, the OCI prospects will be similar.

2. Each semester during 1L, you'll have 2 classes of about 70 students, and 2 classes of 35.

3. Group study - I'm not sure about this. Some people do all their studying in groups. Some people study alone, but around other people. Some people study completely alone. It's completely up to you. If you want to study with people, you can.

4. Not isolated at all. 5 minute walk to food court, 10 minute walk to rec center.

5. Yes, you can use pretty much all undergrad facilities.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:31 pm

finalaspects wrote:how are your OCI's? did the economy affect Davis Law grads in a major way?

around what top % does davis law grads need to be to get big law? top 15%? I know there will always be exceptions but overall?



The economy hurt every law school in the country. I don't think it hurt Davis any more or less than peer schools. My guess would be, we experienced about a 5-10% drop in number of people that got private firm jobs out of OCI. I believe Hastings had a similar result.

In good years, I suppose 15% would be almost guarantee big firm. During my OCI, top 15% would get you all the big firm interviews you could handle. As for getting an offer...I know some top 15% people who had 30 interviews and didn't get anything. But overall, probably 75% of top 15% students who seriously pursued big firm, got big firm.

Top 40% will get your foot in the door at a few big firms, but from there it will be an uphill climb.

articulably suspect
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby articulably suspect » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:18 am

Thanks for taking questions. I'm very interested in King Hall. I want a career in public service, most likely govt. I have several years in govt work and many more in the non-profit sector(most of which relates to social justice causes.)

Do you have any pointers(ie specifically tailoring ones application to Davis) for someone applying such as LORs(outside of academic, which employers/non-profit supervisors will look better than others), angle of PS(pretty sure mine will center around public service and what I hope to do w/my JD, etc.)

Everyone says that softs are virtually meaningless, but do you think that someone with a long history of public service/non-profit sector, civil rights work, etc experience will help, considering my goal is to work in the public sector and my PS will focus on said goal.

Are all the public service oriented courses, clinics, etc as interesting as they sound? What's the consensus on the DC program?

articulably suspect
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby articulably suspect » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:28 am

Sorry, just a few more questions. I've heard that the graduating class usually is divided fairly equally between Sacramento, Bay Area, and LA, is this at all accurate? Are more Daivs graduates planning on staying in Sacramento due to the economy and oci situation?

Do you know anyone who has a job lined up in the public sector? Is it relatively easy for a Davis grad to land a govt job in the Sacramento area? Any advice as to what works and which programs, courses, clinics, etc were very helpful/look good for ps work?

From what I 've heard the vast majority of attorney's in government are McGeorge grads, seems like a Davis graduate would have a significant edge over the competition. What's McGeorge's reputation like in that area, seems like their graduates have a much easier time getting jobs than other T2s/3s in their respective regions, seeing as most Davis graduates leave the area and the Sacramento legal market is quite insulated.

How is Davis for "older" students(ie students who will spend the remainder of their 20s in law school?)

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:48 am

Thanks for taking questions, I just visited Davis and can easily see myself there for the next 3 years!

Though OCI was difficult, are people still getting jobs? I mean, though it isn't BigLaw, are students finding something in the meantime, or unemployed.

If you could do it over, would you choose Davis/Hastings ticket or a tier 2 with a large scholarship?

What are some good apartments for law students in the area, aka quiet apartments with not many problems?

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:51 am

ejjones wrote:Thanks for taking questions. I'm very interested in King Hall. I want a career in public service, most likely govt. I have several years in govt work and many more in the non-profit sector(most of which relates to social justice causes.)

Do you have any pointers(ie specifically tailoring ones application to Davis) for someone applying such as LORs(outside of academic, which employers/non-profit supervisors will look better than others), angle of PS(pretty sure mine will center around public service and what I hope to do w/my JD, etc.)

Everyone says that softs are virtually meaningless, but do you think that someone with a long history of public service/non-profit sector, civil rights work, etc experience will help, considering my goal is to work in the public sector and my PS will focus on said goal.

Are all the public service oriented courses, clinics, etc as interesting as they sound? What's the consensus on the DC program?



1. Pointers for applying - LORs don't matter; PS does matter if your LSAT/GPA is in the waitlist range. If Davis is probably your top choice, you should make that very clear in your PS...and back up why it's your top choice (the admissions committee likes this A LOT). Since you're interested in public interest work, you should mention something about King Hall's "social justice" reputation and how this makes you a good fit for the King Hall community. But don't make it sound like King Hall only exists for your benefit ("Oh my goals are X, Y, Z, and Davis is the best place for me to achieve that.").

2. Public interest courses - the crown jewels of the public interest courses are the immigration and prison law clinics. I think these two are relatively unique to Davis, and the people who participate in them find them incredibly satisfying. As for the regular lecture courses, we have several public interest-related electives, but the only one that strikes me as unique to Davis is critical race theory. Overall, the reason Davis is great for public interest-y students is not because of the courses...every school will have at least a few public interest classes. Rather, it's because so many students here are public interest minded, so there are tons of resources/connections for getting in the public interest field.

articulably suspect
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby articulably suspect » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:03 am

davis3l wrote:
ejjones wrote:Thanks for taking questions. I'm very interested in King Hall. I want a career in public service, most likely govt. I have several years in govt work and many more in the non-profit sector(most of which relates to social justice causes.)

Do you have any pointers(ie specifically tailoring ones application to Davis) for someone applying such as LORs(outside of academic, which employers/non-profit supervisors will look better than others), angle of PS(pretty sure mine will center around public service and what I hope to do w/my JD, etc.)

Everyone says that softs are virtually meaningless, but do you think that someone with a long history of public service/non-profit sector, civil rights work, etc experience will help, considering my goal is to work in the public sector and my PS will focus on said goal.

Are all the public service oriented courses, clinics, etc as interesting as they sound? What's the consensus on the DC program?



1. Pointers for applying - LORs don't matter; PS does matter if your LSAT/GPA is in the waitlist range. If Davis is probably your top choice, you should make that very clear in your PS...and back up why it's your top choice (the admissions committee likes this A LOT). Since you're interested in public interest work, you should mention something about King Hall's "social justice" reputation and how this makes you a good fit for the King Hall community. But don't make it sound like King Hall only exists for your benefit ("Oh my goals are X, Y, Z, and Davis is the best place for me to achieve that.").

2. Public interest courses - the crown jewels of the public interest courses are the immigration and prison law clinics. I think these two are relatively unique to Davis, and the people who participate in them find them incredibly satisfying. As for the regular lecture courses, we have several public interest-related electives, but the only one that strikes me as unique to Davis is critical race theory. Overall, the reason Davis is great for public interest-y students is not because of the courses...every school will have at least a few public interest classes. Rather, it's because so many students here are public interest minded, so there are tons of resources/connections for getting in the public interest field.


For Davis, at what point would a LOR matter at all, whe it's from a professor at King Hall? For some reason I thought it might matter a little at Davis.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:23 am

ejjones wrote:Sorry, just a few more questions. I've heard that the graduating class usually is divided fairly equally between Sacramento, Bay Area, and LA, is this at all accurate? Are more Daivs graduates planning on staying in Sacramento due to the economy and oci situation?

Do you know anyone who has a job lined up in the public sector? Is it relatively easy for a Davis grad to land a govt job in the Sacramento area? Any advice as to what works and which programs, courses, clinics, etc were very helpful/look good for ps work?

From what I 've heard the vast majority of attorney's in government are McGeorge grads, seems like a Davis graduate would have a significant edge over the competition. What's McGeorge's reputation like in that area, seems like their graduates have a much easier time getting jobs than other T2s/3s in their respective regions, seeing as most Davis graduates leave the area and the Sacramento legal market is quite insulated.

How is Davis for "older" students(ie students who will spend the remainder of their 20s in law school?)


1. Public interest jobs - Overall, I would say the slight majority of all grads will end in Northern California (SF and Sac). For some reason, almost all the public interest kids end up in Nor Cal, while the firm kids are about 60-40, Nor Cal-So Cal.
It's almost impossible to have a public interest job lined up before graduation, even if you're at Harvard Law. Public interest entites just don't hire months in advance like firms do. I know a handful of kids who have district attorney gigs lined up, but that's about it. With that said, there are TONS of public interest employers in the Sac area that hire Davis students right after the bar exam, so you just have to be patient. I wouldn't say it's "easy" to get any legal job, but if you're a Davis 3L, with a solid public interest background, you will almost certainly end up with a job soon after graduating.

2. McGeorge - no offense to anyone who goes there, but they're a non-factor when it comes to "competing" for Sac jobs. You might have a rare McGeorge alum running a small firm take a McGeorge student over Davis student, but those cases are few and far between. The CA attorney general is saturated with Davis alum. All other things equal, a Davis student will get hired over a McGeorge.

3. Advice for getting public interest jobs - the key is demonstrated interest. You just have to show the employer you're committed to their cause. If you want an environmental law gig, try to rack up as many enviro internships and courses as possible.

4. LORs - I really, really don't think they would ever matter. If your GPA/LSAT isn't at least borderline, it won't matter at all. If you're borderline, I can potentially see an LOR from a King Hall professor giving you a nudge.

5. Older students - older students fit in great here. The social situation is pretty much whatever you want it to be. I know some older students who hang out with all the "cool" younger students, and some who keep to themselves.
Last edited by davis3l on Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:29 am

Inygma wrote:Thanks for taking questions, I just visited Davis and can easily see myself there for the next 3 years!

Though OCI was difficult, are people still getting jobs? I mean, though it isn't BigLaw, are students finding something in the meantime, or unemployed.

If you could do it over, would you choose Davis/Hastings ticket or a tier 2 with a large scholarship?

What are some good apartments for law students in the area, aka quiet apartments with not many problems?


1. Jobs - law student hiring generally occurs in 2 waves, regardless of the economy. A chunk of students get jobs from 2L OCI, then the rest get jobs around graduation/bar exam. This is the case at most schools. So I really can't say whether people who didn't get OCI jobs are now getting jobs. As far as I know, some people got jobs through OCI, and most of the rest are jobless. But this isn't necessarily because of the economy, or a reflection on how employable Davis students are...it's just how hiring usually happens. Most students who don't currently have a job will probably end up getting government/public interest/small firm gigs closer to graduation or after passing the bar.

2. Davis v. tier 2 - I would PROBABLY still take Davis over a tier 2 with scholarship. I guess it depends which tier 2, what location, what scholarship. Here are some things to consider: a) Davis gives a ton of grants to 2Ls and 3Ls (unless you come from a rich background). So even though you might have a 20k scholarship to a tier 2, you might lose the scholarship after 1L, then be left paying full price for 2L and 3L. At Davis you might pay close to full price for 1L, but then you get 10-15k grants for 2L and 3L. b) Location of the tier 2 also matters a lot. If it's a school like Loyola, I'd say forget it...way too much competition around LA. But if it's somewhere like Houston (top school in a large city), then it would be a close decision.

3. Apartments - one of the best things about attending Davis is the housing situation. Davis is basically split into two areas. South Davis is almost like a suburb...it has nice homes, quiet apartments, fast food chains. So if you don't want to be around loud undergrads, South Davis is the place. These apartments usually run 900-1000 for 1 bedroom, maybe 1100-1200 for 2/3 bedroom. The rest of Davis is pretty much the area surrounding the campus and downtown. You'll find all kinds of apartments, from quiet, to rowdy, to slightly ghetto, to decked out. There are TONS of options for housing.
Last edited by davis3l on Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:33 pm

See updated last 2 posts.


These are all great questions, I'd be happy to answer more.

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:23 pm

Are many people getting judicial clerkships?

What are professors/deans/students saying about the tuition increases?

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:37 pm

Inygma wrote:Are many people getting judicial clerkships?

What are professors/deans/students saying about the tuition increases?



1. Clerkships - that's a good question actually, but unfortunately I don't have much info on it. I assume you're trying to determine if the economy has hurt clerkship chances for Davis students (if you're just generally interested in clerkship stats, you can find that on the King Hall web site). As far as I can tell, people are still getting clerkships. Since Davis only has 190 students in each graduating class, usually only like 10 people end up doing clerkships each year. I'm sure clerkships are more competitive this year, so in theory that would hurt Davis students...but since so few Davis students end up doing clerkships anyway, I'm not sure it's much of an appreciable change from past years.

2. Tuition - to be honest, I don't think anyone cares that much. The stupid undergrads (who only pay like 10k a year tuition) were getting all riled up and rioting on campus, but no law students I know of participated. If you're a decently intelligent person, you realize that the tuition hikes are necessary to keep the UC system at the top of the public universities food chain. They're not raising tuition for shits and giggles...I trust the people running the UC system know what they're doing. Yes, it's unfortunate that a PUBLIC school now costs as much as a private, but that's just how it goes in a shit economy.

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20160810
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby 20160810 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:55 am

davis3l wrote:
Inygma wrote:Thanks for taking questions, I just visited Davis and can easily see myself there for the next 3 years!

Though OCI was difficult, are people still getting jobs? I mean, though it isn't BigLaw, are students finding something in the meantime, or unemployed.

If you could do it over, would you choose Davis/Hastings ticket or a tier 2 with a large scholarship?

What are some good apartments for law students in the area, aka quiet apartments with not many problems?


1. Jobs - law student hiring generally occurs in 2 waves, regardless of the economy. A chunk of students get jobs from 2L OCI, then the rest get jobs around graduation/bar exam. This is the case at most schools. So I really can't say whether people who didn't get OCI jobs are now getting jobs. As far as I know, some people got jobs through OCI, and most of the rest are jobless. But this isn't necessarily because of the economy, or a reflection on how employable Davis students are...it's just how hiring usually happens. Most students who don't currently have a job will probably end up getting government/public interest/small firm gigs closer to graduation or after passing the bar.

2. Davis v. tier 2 - I would PROBABLY still take Davis over a tier 2 with scholarship. I guess it depends which tier 2, what location, what scholarship. Here are some things to consider: a) Davis gives a ton of grants to 2Ls and 3Ls (unless you come from a rich background). So even though you might have a 20k scholarship to a tier 2, you might lose the scholarship after 1L, then be left paying full price for 2L and 3L. At Davis you might pay close to full price for 1L, but then you get 10-15k grants for 2L and 3L. b) Location of the tier 2 also matters a lot. If it's a school like Loyola, I'd say forget it...way too much competition around LA. But if it's somewhere like Houston (top school in a large city), then it would be a close decision.

3. Apartments - one of the best things about attending Davis is the housing situation. Davis is basically split into two areas. South Davis is almost like a suburb...it has nice homes, quiet apartments, fast food chains. So if you don't want to be around loud undergrads, South Davis is the place. These apartments usually run 900-1000 for 1 bedroom, maybe 1100-1200 for 2/3 bedroom. The rest of Davis is pretty much the area surrounding the campus and downtown. You'll find all kinds of apartments, from quiet, to rowdy, to slightly ghetto, to decked out. There are TONS of options for housing.


South Davis is awesome. My drive to campus takes 5-10 minutes, depending on traffic, everything is quiet, and I have a really nice place in a complex that is almost completely undergrad-free.

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shanoodle
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby shanoodle » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:10 am

Thank you for taking questions. I am in my late twenties and am applying to law school after several years of "corporate" job experience. I'm curious if you have heard anything about work experience/life experience having a significant impact with the admissions committee at Davis in weighing applications. Have you heard about Davis particularly favoring this type of background more than other schools, or about the same? Thanks again for your time.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:35 am

shanoodle wrote:Thank you for taking questions. I am in my late twenties and am applying to law school after several years of "corporate" job experience. I'm curious if you have heard anything about work experience/life experience having a significant impact with the admissions committee at Davis in weighing applications. Have you heard about Davis particularly favoring this type of background more than other schools, or about the same? Thanks again for your time.


No I don't think having work experience will really help much. Like I mentioned above about LORs, it can mayyyyyybe help if your numbers are borderline, but if you're not at least in the ballpark, having work experience, however impressive, won't get you in. Really a lot of people apply to law school with years of serious work experience, so it's just not unique enough to make a difference in your favor.

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:55 pm

Does Davis have a summer class for incoming students?

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:02 pm

No summer class I know of. All incoming 1Ls start the same time.


There is also no summer school option for 2Ls and 3Ls, but I believe you can take a summer course at another law school and transfer the credits.

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BiteyTLS
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby BiteyTLS » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:49 pm

Inygma wrote:Thanks for taking questions, I just visited Davis and can easily see myself there for the next 3 years!

Though OCI was difficult, are people still getting jobs? I mean, though it isn't BigLaw, are students finding something in the meantime, or unemployed.

If you could do it over, would you choose Davis/Hastings ticket or a tier 2 with a large scholarship?

What are some good apartments for law students in the area, aka quiet apartments with not many problems?


Take the Tier 2 with the large scholarship (hope it is close to full). After the initial T25, rankings hardly matter at all. They are merely rearranging schools are factors other than the most important: "will i get a decent job?". I just cannot imagine that 120k of debt is worth the itty-bitty chance that Davis gives you over comparable T2 schools. Besides the fact that the UC system (with the possible exception of the flagship schools UCLA and Cal) is collapsing.

Davis at 35 has always been way over-ranked considering the fact that their employment statistics have always been rather poor. They are a second fiddle to a area fulled with law schools- Stanford, Hastings, Cal- all within 100 miles. Not sure if the festering toilet of McGeorge counts in this listing.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:33 pm

LOL is about all I can say to that.

If anyone else has questions about life in Davis, employment prospects, OCI...anything, I'd be happy to answer.

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20160810
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby 20160810 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:49 pm

BiteyTLS wrote:
Inygma wrote:Thanks for taking questions, I just visited Davis and can easily see myself there for the next 3 years!

Though OCI was difficult, are people still getting jobs? I mean, though it isn't BigLaw, are students finding something in the meantime, or unemployed.

If you could do it over, would you choose Davis/Hastings ticket or a tier 2 with a large scholarship?

What are some good apartments for law students in the area, aka quiet apartments with not many problems?


Take the Tier 2 with the large scholarship (hope it is close to full). After the initial T25, rankings hardly matter at all. They are merely rearranging schools are factors other than the most important: "will i get a decent job?". I just cannot imagine that 120k of debt is worth the itty-bitty chance that Davis gives you over comparable T2 schools. Besides the fact that the UC system (with the possible exception of the flagship schools UCLA and Cal) is collapsing.

Davis at 35 has always been way over-ranked considering the fact that their employment statistics have always been rather poor. They are a second fiddle to a area fulled with law schools- Stanford, Hastings, Cal- all within 100 miles. Not sure if the festering toilet of McGeorge counts in this listing.


Now here, here's a guy who knows the score.




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