Franklin Pierce (UNH Law School) Forum

[barkingbug]

My situation a year ago was substantially similar. I chose UNH, and am pleased with the decision. Let's face it, the job market is not good. Having $100k less to pay back goes a long way to help calm those concerns if you are committed to going to law school. The professors so for are superb. The campus is in a fairly small town, but also right next to the federal courthouse and state Supreme Court. The merger should push the school into t2.

As for as the 3.2 requirement... No, it wil not be a sure thing. Everyone there is smart and works hard. That said, all of the people I know that received significant scholarships were able to maintain them comfortably.

Con Law beckons, but if you have any specific questions, feel free to send me a note. (I am not here a lot, but will get back to you eventually). Good luck.

[spece212]

Finally got my letter after a seemingly endless wait of 2.5 weeks. $25k/yr in scholly makes it very tempting indeed. I also like the idea of going to a school in a nice peaceful town. The only concern is employment prospects after graduation, especially since being an international candidate makes me ambivalent about any particular geographic preference in the US.
I guess I will worry about that once I hear back from all the other schools that I applied to!! Though one thing is for sure, despite all the tall claims of holistic approach at any school, I am pretty sure it is LSAT that counts.

[Boilers9]

Hi All,

I am going to be a 1L this upcoming fall and planning on going to UNH School of Law for their IP program. I want to know the honest truth when it comes to employment for people with a scientific background and intend to go into Patent Law coming out of a TTT that has a pretty good reputation within the IP community. I have only an undergraduate degree in Neurobiology and Physiology and no Ph.D. or masters. I researched the top 25 IP firms and almost all of them had graduates from Franklin Pierce so it does look promising.. Let me know your thoughts!

Thanks

[spece212]

I am also a prospective 1L. Your research result is quite encouraging for me

[kitkat37]

I love the area. Everyone connected to the school has been kind and gone out of their way to make me feel excited about next year. The scholarship was generous. I was most impressed by the CVs of their professors. They had tons of experience in areas I would love to work in. I highly suggest checking it out!

[jdwishes]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the relationship between IP concentration and the Daniel Webster Scholars program? In other words, is the DWS program more likely stacked with IP students? Or, could it be totally unrelated as DWS candidates apply after first year and it is based exclusively on 1L coursework, not IP intention or electives?

(I'm one of the rare birds here who is not interested in IP, but I am interested in the DWS program.)

[Bluben]

I talked to a 3L about what types of jobs people from UNH get, he said his peers have gotten jobs from small firms in buffalo, midsize firms in New Hampshire, and a few in big firms in DC. He didnt say how many students got these jobs, and I dont know how i feel about possibly having to work at a small firm in buffalo...

[Joymin]

I spoke to a 3L about what s/he has lined up, and I got a very lukewarm response without any specifics. It was something like this: In the current economic scenario, your first job may not be your dream job. I do not know what class rank the person is holding. I don't want to project any kind of a gloomy picture, but the person's response made me wonder whether UNH has a great presence today in the IP market. If you search for UNH alumni in reputed NY/DC/Chicago IP law firms, you will find quite a few people in good positions there; however, they must have started their careers several years ago when the times weren't so rough.

[Boilers9]

I spoke to a 3L about what s/he has lined up, and I got a very lukewarm response without any specifics. It was something like this: In the current economic scenario, your first job may not be your dream job. I do not know what class rank the person is holding. I don't want to project any kind of a gloomy picture, but the person's response made me wonder whether UNH has a great presence today in the IP market. If you search for UNH alumni in reputed NY/DC/Chicago IP law firms, you will find quite a few people in good positions there; however, they must have started their careers several years ago when the times weren't so rough.

I did the same research and found the same information: a few UNH grads in good firms, the problem I am currently having is that I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone on the admissions committee nor any students. If there are any UNH grads out there or current students could you PLEASE give an honest response about what employment prospects are like.

Thanks

[androstan]

The 3L I spoke to most recently is starting at a small IP boutique after graduation. She's chem engr undergrad.

[MrAnon]

I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone on the admissions committee nor any students.

Pretty much sums it up right there, no?

spoke to a 3L about what s/he has lined up, and I got a very lukewarm response without any specifics.

Would you buy a car if the previous buyer gave you a very lukewarm response without any specifics? If the salesman wouldn't give you straight answers?

[barkingbug]

If a student at any school is giving you more than a luke warm response with regard to the current market, they are lying.

UNH Law places as well as anyone in the state and decent regionally. Granted, it is a small state. If you like IP, you should do well beyond that.

As for DWS, only a very small number of those involved are IP students.

[observationalist]

If a student at any school is giving you more than a luke warm response with regard to the current market, they are lying.

UNH Law places as well as anyone in the state and decent regionally. Granted, it is a small state. If you like IP, you should do well beyond that.

As for DWS, only a very small number of those involved are IP students.

It's understandable that current students won't necessarily be forthcoming about the job prospects for them and their classmates, seeing as they're still in the process and in many cases have at least another six months until they pass a bar exam and can start actually looking for work. But there is no reason why career services can't give you a straight answer, and in particular a list of where each member of the Class of 2010 found work.

Simple questions worth asking (with answers you deserve before you invest):

How many 2010 grads were there?
How many 2010 grads found a job that requires a JD?
How many 2010 grads reported starting salaries?
How many 2010 grads found full-time work?

They just provided these answers (along with a bunch of others) to NALP a few weeks ago. Trust me on this: they can answer these questions with ease. Just keep on pressing them.

[bensmith82]

To answer a few of the questions posted previously:

The Daniel Webster Program is not full of IP people, although there are a few. The program has some required courses that go beyond the normal JD required courses. Unfortunately these required courses limit the amount of credits you have left for your elective courses. Many IP students choose not to apply to the program because they are not interested in the courses in the DW program and want to keep their electives open for other classes. Most people that enter the DW program are people that are very interested in staying in NH and Maine when they graduate. This is due to the fact that graduation from the program also gets you admitted to the NH Bar without taking the NH Bar Exam. This might also be an appealing option for students who would like to practice in DC, because you only have to show that you have been admitted in one of the other US states and you can get reciprocity in DC.

As far as job prospects during the summers of your JD program go, I only knew of 2 students my year that had paying positions for the summer and about 20-30% of the other students that I knew obtained legal employment of any type. Most students stayed in Concord and took classes over the summer to lighten up their course load during their remaining two years. That being said, I think getting legal experience of any kind is by far the most important thing that you can do your first summer. Those people in IP who were not interested in leaving the NH area for the summer and only looked in Maine, NH, and Boston were not able to find jobs and ended up taking summer classes.

During the summer of 2L year about half of the IP people that I knew were able to find paying IP jobs that offered a prospect of getting a full time job after graduation. Most of these people were in the top 20% and were also on law review. Your summer 2L job is by far the best opportunity that you will have to obtain employment after graduation as that is how most law firms do their hiring. They want a full summer to test you out and see if you are worth giving a full time offer of employment.

The Career Services office will be your best resource about employment after graduation and they are very transparent. They are honest, very nice, and they don't try to hide the ball. As this past years employment statistics are the most relevant, and also the hardest to obtain, I will tell you that six friends of mine that graduated this past year looking for IP jobs, 1 went into big Law in NY making $160 k (plus bonuses), another is in DC making $120K, one started his own firm (which is a frightening thought in and of itself), and three are still looking for employment. I also have some IP friends who are 3Ls this year. I haven't talked to many of them for a couple of months, but from what I know none of the four have jobs lined up as of yet.

To sum up my experience at the school, I thought I received an excellent education (with the exception of a few classes), the environment was incredibly friendly (both faculty and other students). Professors had an open door policy and were always available to give additional help to students that needed further clarification or career advice. I couldn't have asked for a better learning and living environment. The career services office was less helpful in helping students find employment, but very friendly and gave good tips about interviewing and resumes.

If you have a substantial scholarship $100k + in tuition and living expenses should weigh heavily on your mind. When interest is included on your loans, considering that it will probably take you at least between 5-10 (probably more) years to pay off that type of debt, that large of a debt might limit the types of jobs that you can afford to take.

Okay, so this turned into a really long post and you have probably stopped reading by now. But as androstan said, external factors will probably drive your decision. The best thing to do is be as informed as you can and make the right choice for you. Coming out of school with no debt will leave you with more options because you can afford to make less money (e.g., working for a small NE firm with a better lifestyle, starting your own practice, or taking whatever you can find if you don't land your dream job), but being at UNH will limit the number of firms that are willing to hire you and the salary that you will earn. Looking at those charts of employment statistics on UNH's website, just remember that there are 160 people per class and I would say that about half of them are IP students. So roughly 800 IP students have come out of pierce since 2000, and only 105 of them are in the top 100 firms in the country.

Top patent firms that employ Franklin Pierce Center for IP alumni:
67 out of top 100 (194 alumni)
105 of the 194 alumni graduated since 2000
--LinkRemoved--

Good luck with your decisions!

[androstan]

Of 127 grads, 11 didn't respond to our survey; 13 are unemployed (but 11 of those students either did not pass, or did not sit for, a bar exam); 1 is pursuing a PhD; and 6 are not seeking any type of employment.

As for salaries, only 52 grads would disclose. Those that did disclose are listed, in a scrambled order.

Assume that the lowest salaries are for the public interest and non-IP small firm employers.

• Full or part-time job State City/country description Employer/job description Job duration
  FT NH CONCORD NH PUBLIC DEFENDER PERM
  FT MA BROOKLINE INDUSTRIAL NANO TECHNOLOGY PERM
  FT NY CENTRAL ISLIP SUFFOLK COUNTRY DA'S OFFICE PERM
  PT NH LACONIA NH BALL BEARINGS, INC. PERM
  FT NH HAMPTON ZUMBADO & ASSOCIATES PERM
  FT NJ EPSTEIN ARLEN LLC PERM
  FT NH MANCHESTER DEVINE MILLIMET & BRANCH, PA PERM
  FT MA CAMBRIDGE ASCENTAGE LAW, PLLC PERM
  FT NH DOVER BURNS BRYANT COX ROCKEFELLER PERM
  FT NJ HILLSBOROUGH PLK LAW GROUP PERM
  FT FL CORAL GABLES IP BUSINESS CONSULTANTS TEMP
  FT DC WASHINGTON SUGHRUE MION, PLLC PERM
  FT CA REDWOOD CITY FISH & RICHARDSON PERM
  FT VA ARLINGTON NIXON & VANDERHYE PERM
  FT NH CONCORD MERRIMACK COUNTY ATT'S OFFICE PERM
  FT TAIWAN IP WINNER INT'L PATENT OFFICE PERM
  FT DC WASHINGTON RADER FISHMAN PERM
  FT FL LARGO JONATHAN JAMES DAMONTE PERM
  FT MA BOSTON LAMBERT AND ASSOCIATES PERM
  FT DC WASHINGTON ADAMS GRAYSON CORP PERM
  FT CA SAN JOSE HICKMAN PALERMO PERM
  FT NH CONCORD PUCKHABER LAW OFFICE PERM
  FT CT WEST HARTFORD KARSTEN DORMAN TALLBERG PERM
  FT NH MANCHESTER BELIVEAU FRADETTE PERM
  FT VA ALEXANDRIA USPTO PERM
  FT NH MEREDITH BOUTIN & ALTIERI PERM
  FT NH MANCHESTER KEEFE AND BROWNE PERM
  FT NH CONCORD NH SUPERIOR COURT PERM
  FT MD ANNAPOLIS QUAL-I-TAX, INC. PERM
  FT WA BURIEN LAW OFFICE OF GERALD ROBISON PERM
  PT FL TAMPA CHARLES A. HOUNCHELL, P.A. PERM
  FT MA BURLINGTON ORACLE TEMP
  FT NH DOVER DAVID J GREENE LAW OFFICE PERM
  FT MA WILMINGTON ANALOG DEVICES PERM
  PT NY KEW GARDENS LAW OFFICE OF IDO TUCHMAN TEMP
  FT VA ALEXANDRIA US PATENT & TRADEMARK OFFICE PERM
  FT VA CHANTILLY LANWAY IPR
  FT WA SEATTLE FROMMER LAWRENCE PERM
  FT VA ALEXANDRIA OLIFF & BERRIDGE PERM
  FT CT HARTFORD CANTOR COLBURN PERM
  FT VA ALEXANDRIA US PATENT & TRADEMARK OFFICE PERM
  FT DC WASHINGTON MCDERMOTT WILL EMERY PERM
  FT MA CAMBRIDGE ASCENTAGE LAW, PLLC PERM
  FT NH LACONIA BELKNAP COUNTY ATTY'S OFFICE PERM
  FT MA CAMBRIDGE LANDO & ANASTASI, LLP PERM
  FT NY NEW YORK FROMMER LAWRENCE & HAUG LLP PERM
  FT TX PASADENA KANEKA TEXAS CORP PERM
  FT NH MANCHESTER MCLANE LAW FIRM PERM
  FT KOREA KIM & CHANG PERM
  FT DC WASHINGTON sidley austin llp
  FT VA ALEXANDRIA US PATENT & TRADEMARK OFFICE PERM
  FT NH CONCORD CLEVELAND WATERS & BASS, P.A. PERM
  FT NH MANCHESTER FENIGER & ULIASZ PERM
  FT CA LOS ANGELES STEPTOE & JOHNSON PERM
  FT VA ALEXANDRIA US PATENT & TRADEMARK OFFICE PERM
  FT NH PORTSMOUTH FORD & WEAVER, P.A. PERM
  FT UT COTTONWOOD HGHTS CLAYTON HOWARTH & CANNON PERM
  FT VA ALEXANDRIA OLIFF & BERRIDGE PERM
  FT NY NEW YORK LAUNCHPAD ADVERTISING PERM
  FT CT NEW HAVEN STATE OF CT JUDICIAL BRANCH PERM
  FT NH CONCORD NH SUPERIOR COURT PERM
  FT NH LACONIA HAUGHEY, PHILPOT & LAURENT PA PERM
  PT IL ELGIN ELGIN COMMUNITY COLLEGE
  FT DC WASHINGTON AARON LEVINE & ASSOCIATES PERM
  FT CD WASHINGTON TEMP
  FT VA ALEXANDRIA OLIFF & BERRIDGE PERM
  FT RI CRANSTON MORETTI PERLOW & BONIN PERM
  FT NH CONCORD UPTON & HATFIELD PERM
  
  FT DC WASHINGTON ANIMAL WELFARE INSTITUTE PERM
  FT NY ALBANY HOFFMAN WARNICK PERM
  FT NY NEW YORK FITZPATRICK CELLA PERM
  FT DC WASHINGTON USPTO PERM
  PT COACH PERM
  FT DC WASHINGTON INTERNATIONAL FOOD & AGRICULTURAL TRADE POLICY COUNCIL PERM
  FT NY BROOKLYN STRAND FREIGHT SYSTEMS PERM
  PT FL MIAMI PERETZ CHESAL & HERMANN TEMP
  FT NH CONCORD NH SUPERIOR COURT PERM
  FT MA CAMBRIDGE ANCHOR THERAPEUTICS, INC PERM
  FT VT BURLINGTON DOWNS RACHLIN PERM
  
  FT NH NEW YORK FITPATRICK CELL PERM
  FT IL CHICAGO US DEPT OF LABOR, PMF FELLO PERM
  LJD NY NEW YORK EDWARDS ANGELL PALMER PERM
  FT NH PORTSMOUTH FORD & WEAVER PERM
  FT NH CONCORD NH SUPERIOR COURT PERM
  FT NH SANBORNTON PERM
  FT VA ARLINGTON ANTONELLI, TERRY, STOUT PERM
  FT VA ALEXANDRIA USPTO CHIEF ECONOMIST OFFICE TEMP
  FT HI HILO PERM
  FT MA BOSTON SEYFARTH SHAW PERM
  FT NH MANCHESTER NORMAND & ASSOCIATES PERM
  FT NH MANCHESTER NH PUBLIC DEFENDER PERM
  FT MA BOSTON FURMAN GREGORY DEPTULA TEMP
  FT NH CONCORD sheehan phinney BASS + GREEN PERM
  FT NH MANCHESTER GROSSMAN TUCKER PERM

• Salary
  50000
  54000
  37000
  41600
  33000
  48043
  40000
  30000
  50000
  62400
  125000
  160000
  45000
  50000
  100000
  17680
  62400
  70000
  52000
  135000
  55000
  140000
  135000
  160000
  17680
  79000
  48500
  160000
  76000
  59000
  160000
  45000
  85280
  135000
  60000
  53674
  60000
  45000
  135000
  35000
  55000
  104000
  48500
  64000
  160000
  62909
  145000
  48500
  105000
  62467
  54000
  92000

[androstan]

The lack of response to my last post is deafening.

Based on salary data alone it appears that:

At least eleven c/o 2010 graduates landed "biglaw".

At least 32 c/o 2010 graduates are in PI/solo/small law/starbucks.

At least 9 c/o 2010 graduates are in some kind of "midlaw" or maybe a position in business.



Only about half the class reported salaries. Even if ZERO of the rest of the nondisclosers landed biglaw, it appears that graduates in the top 10% at UNH were still landing biglaw even ITE. Also, another almost 10% were landing solid "midlaw" type positions.

Also, I don't really believe that none of the nondisclosers were in biglaw or other "good jobs". Some individuals object to disclosing their salary on principle or out of fear of jeapordizing anonymity.

[hemicuda]

Thank you Androstan for posting this very helpful information. It's good to know that some of the UNH grads are landing $100k+ jobs (Assuming all 50% that did not report have low-paying jobs); however, I wish that number was much higher. I am leaning towards UNH, and that salary/job placement info that you reported is certainly more to think about. Good luck with your decision. April 15th is coming up soon.

[barkingbug]

Just to follow up on a previous post - the vast majority of 1Ls I have spoken with have secured good legal internships for the summer and a few have paid legal jobs (not associateships). I believe that unpaid legal internships are easy to get (even if you are in the bottom half) if you look hard enough. Of course, the quality of the position can vary significantly.

I would not recommend taking summer classes. The school charges the regular rate on top of the fixed annual tuition for those classes. If money is no issue or if you are going for a dual degree, it makes sense. Otherwise, only those who are financially incompetent would go that route... in my opinion.

Overall, I too have been very impressed with the professors at UNH Law. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

[joemkirch]

tag - was accepted a little while ago. Still researching as much as possible to make a decision on whether or not to make the leap.

[TylerDurden2]

As for as the 3.2 requirement... No, it wil not be a sure thing. Everyone there is smart and works hard. That said, all of the people I know that received significant scholarships were able to maintain them comfortably.

Good luck.

Everyone is smart there and works hard?
that was not my experience, in my opinion there were arroximately 10 students who were smart and who worked hard, at least in my class, but I am a little jaded. While I am one of the few who landed a job that paid in the 6 figures, I cannot tell you how unhappy I am that MOST of my classmates are now no longer practicing law and are back to repairing bicycles and asking if you would like fries with that.
I hope that the new dean does SOMETHING to get the school some recognition.
I am looking to get into a different area of law, and I am NOT finding that my FPLC education makes anything but a pretty negative impression on anyone that MIGHT want to interview me. Top of my class, CAFC, Law review, undergrad honor societies and a very hard worker, but the FPLC thing does not look great and the school does not seem to want to work to change that.

I think that this school and most others really ought to advertise that MOST of the law jobs that will be available after graduation are with temp agencies, doing doc reviews paying between $18 and $30 per hour.
Has anyone bothered telling you that?
Also, someone on here asked about a biology/physiology degree with no graduate work. Forget ever getting a patent job in today's market without a PhD. Your competition nowadays just lost their jobs at Howrey, has a JD from Stanford, a PhD from Harvard or Yale and a book of business in the $millions.

[Boilers9]

When did you graduate? What was your background in and how were you able to land a six figure job?

[barkingbug]

I'll have to call BS on that entire post, and question the author's sobriety. First, saying you were able to land a six figure job with a degree and then complaining about how limiting that degree is makes very little sense, as does trashing your school and discourage prospective students as you plea for improved rankings/reputation... Your claim that most of your classmates are not practicing law is flat wrong and baseless; you have zero evidence to back that up... I would recommend anyone reading that post to ignore it. That said, making 60k a year on 40 hour work weeks with a low NH cost of living does not seem so terrible.

I agree the market is bad (no one should believe employment numbers reported by ANY law school). If you want to stay in NH or Boston and do well in school, UNH Law is a great choice. The same is true for any IP students. I mentioned it before, but 1Ls have done very well this summer from what I have seen. Also, I personally know several recent UNH Law graduates who have landed nice patent attorney positions, without a doctorate or masters work. Again, I am happy to answer any specific questions if you want to ping me.

[androstan]

I'll have to call BS on that entire post, and question the author's sobriety. First, saying you were able to land a six figure job with a degree and then complaining about how limiting that degree is makes very little sense, as does trashing your school and discourage prospective students as you plea for improved rankings/reputation... Your claim that most of your classmates are not practicing law is flat wrong and baseless; you have zero evidence to back that up... I would recommend anyone reading that post to ignore it. That said, making 60k a year on 40 hour work weeks with a low NH cost of living does not seem so terrible.

I agree the market is bad (no one should believe employment numbers reported by ANY law school). If you want to stay in NH or Boston and do well in school, UNH Law is a great choice. The same is true for any IP students. I mentioned it before, but 1Ls have done very well this summer from what I have seen. Also, I personally know several recent UNH Law graduates who have landed nice patent attorney positions, without a doctorate or masters work. Again, I am happy to answer any specific questions if you want to ping me.

+1

For anyone reading that questionable post, I refer you only a few posts up to UNH's career/salary data. It isn't as bleak as some make it out to be, but it isn't as good as some naive, uninformed, gullible, and starry-eyed 0L's might think.

[RicketyCricket]

As someone who grew up in Concord, I know plenty of people who went to Franklin Pierce/UNH Law... and most of them are ambulance chasers or divorce attorneys in New Hampshire who can't get a job out of the state now. I actually know a few people who have graduated in the past few years from the "SOL" (shit out of luck, their term not mine) who can't even get jobs in NH shitlaw. So yeah, if you miss out on the IP gravy train, beware and all that.

[barkingbug]

Rickety's post is also facially meaningless. Seems he just hangs out with the wrong crowd. UNH Law has created many senior partners, congressmen, and high-level judges. Every school in the country has "ambulance chasers" and divorce attorneys (family law is as legit as anything else). I know of a UNH student who was kept over t14s the year the market imploded. So what? That is also just my experience. Don't base your decisions on anecdotal nonsense.