... Forum

[TooOld4This]

You are the one that is conflating "high end" with pays a lot of money.

If you move your BF out to CA, pretty much count on being stuck in BigLaw for a very long time. The type of firm job you are looking for is rare and most government jobs don't pay what you are looking for. Your BF's income is likely to take a huge hit, with long-term un- or under-employment a realistic outcome (bad economy+no degree+non-technical field=few job prospects). Expect to be the sole bread winner and make decisions accordingly.

[tomwatts]

Some plaintiff's firms like to call themselves "private public-interest firms," which sometimes causes confusion (as here). The recruitment process for top plaintiff's firms is a lot more like biglaw than it is like PI: the goal (usually) is to SA there in 2L summer. Grades matter, LR matters, and clerkships can matter. Going to a top school is usually a must, and some firms won't take you unless you SA and/or clerk (sort of like top-level biglaw). It's really competitive at the high end that you'd be looking at, and the firms are smaller and scarcer than in biglaw, but they do exist, and they do take people.

The big difference between this and biglaw, though, is that you want to show that you're interested in PI-type litigation from the beginning. In your 1L summer, intern with a prosecutor or a lower-end plaintiff's firm or the like. You want litigation and PI/plaintiff's work on your resume when you apply. You can do it other ways, but this makes it easier.

It's different from other public interest in that you might not be able to lateral into it. I don't think Altshuler Berzon really likes taking laterals from biglaw. The nonprofit, top-level plaintiff's firm that I'm externing with right now takes laterals from biglaw, but you'd better have a demonstrated interest in PI and a good story about wanting to go to the plaintiff's side. Going to a nonprofit's General Counsel's office or into a government litigation position traditionally involves lateraling, but top plaintiff's firms believe in the cause and have enough money to train you. They want you to believe in the cause, too, and they can take you from the start (after a clerkship or two).

[Wiggly]

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[SnakySalmon]

Some plaintiff's firms like to call themselves "private public-interest firms," which sometimes causes confusion (as here). The recruitment process for top plaintiff's firms is a lot more like biglaw than it is like PI: the goal (usually) is to SA there in 2L summer. Grades matter, LR matters, and clerkships can matter. Going to a top school is usually a must, and some firms won't take you unless you SA and/or clerk (sort of like top-level biglaw). It's really competitive at the high end that you'd be looking at, and the firms are smaller and scarcer than in biglaw, but they do exist, and they do take people.

The big difference between this and biglaw, though, is that you want to show that you're interested in PI-type litigation from the beginning. In your 1L summer, intern with a prosecutor or a lower-end plaintiff's firm or the like. You want litigation and PI/plaintiff's work on your resume when you apply. You can do it other ways, but this makes it easier.

It's different from other public interest in that you might not be able to lateral into it. I don't think Altshuler Berzon really likes taking laterals from biglaw. The nonprofit, top-level plaintiff's firm that I'm externing with right now takes laterals from biglaw, but you'd better have a demonstrated interest in PI and a good story about wanting to go to the plaintiff's side. Going to a nonprofit's General Counsel's office or into a government litigation position traditionally involves lateraling, but top plaintiff's firms believe in the cause and have enough money to train you. They want you to believe in the cause, too, and they can take you from the start (after a clerkship or two).

Are hour requirements at PI firms in terms of billable hours as well, and if so, how comparable are they to biglaw requirements?

[Lincoln]

Anyone who thinks of high-end plaintiff's side work as "public interest" or "doing good" has some interesting lessons to learn. These people pay the bills, and it's not by representing puppies and saving the whales.

On a separate note, check out the qualifications of the latest crop of Altshuler Benzon associates: http://www.altshulerberzon.com/announcement/show/31.
Summer associates are here: http://www.altshulerberzon.com/announcement/show/36.

So in the sense that the track for both of these are "get really good grades", sure, there's no conflict. The problem is that if you don't get one of these spots, you will have to commit to Big Law before you get a chance to go for Big Fed.

[SnakySalmon]

Anyone who thinks of high-end plaintiff's side work as "public interest" or "doing good" has some interesting lessons to learn. These people pay the bills, and it's not by representing puppies and saving the whales.

What kind of grades would someone need to get bigpuppy?

More seriously, while they do have to pay the bills, these are also people who chose to specialize in this instead of other biglaw. Looking at the attorney list, a couple seem really politically active as well. I don't doubt that you'll wind up representing real shits there, but all things being equal, I think it's more PI than a regular firm would be.

[Lincoln]

Anyone who thinks of high-end plaintiff's side work as "public interest" or "doing good" has some interesting lessons to learn. These people pay the bills, and it's not by representing puppies and saving the whales.

What kind of grades would someone need to get bigpuppy?

More seriously, while they do have to pay the bills, these are also people who chose to specialize in this instead of other biglaw. Looking at the attorney list, a couple seem really politically active as well. I don't doubt that you'll wind up representing real shits there, but all things being equal, I think it's more PI than a regular firm would be.

It's not so much representing real shits; most of these firms no doubt represent plaintiffs who deserve representation. But big class action law suits are generally vehicles for getting lawyers paid, not for making the world a better place. They almost always settle because it's cheaper to make the lawyers go away, and that's how they make a living.

[tomwatts]

Are hour requirements at PI firms in terms of billable hours as well, and if so, how comparable are they to biglaw requirements?

At a nonprofit PI litigation firm, there probably are no billable hour requirements. The firm I'm externing with tracks hours, but largely because of attorney fee provisions, not because they're trying to hit minimums.

At a for-profit plaintiff's firm, there probably are billable hour requirements much like in biglaw, but someone else probably knows better than I do. And you can always check with the specific firms individually. In addition to Altshuler, there are a handful of other major ones; my Civ Pro prof had just come to academia from working at Lieff Cabraser, also a well-known plaintiff's firm.

Plaintiff's firms do different flavors of work than you'll find in biglaw, and some people find it more to their liking. It is also true that plaintiff's lawyers are often politically engaged; they're usually an influential part of the Democratic Party's base. Until his fall from grace, John Edwards was one of the more famous plaintiff's-lawyer-turned-politicians in the country.