Loyola Law School - Los Angeles 3L, Taking Questions Forum

[Danteshek]

However, I'm still confused about the MBA. I was not going for the MBA for the name or anything. I was going to get it because I wanted to have the knowledge. Why would the knowledge base not outweigh the extra year of school?

How many years of work experience do you have? Years in management?

[seaguy2010]

I have two years experience, not in management, but just in entry-level business-related positions. I'm very interested in business classes, so that's another reason why I was considering an MBA.

[Danteshek]

I have two years experience, not in management, but just in entry-level business-related positions. I'm very interested in business classes, so that's another reason why I was considering an MBA.

I see. Well, I can't stop you from doing it. You can get the same knowledge at UCLA Extension for much less money.

[seaguy2010]

How does UCLA extention work?

[Danteshek]

How does UCLA extention work?

Not a degree program. You just take the classes you think you need.

[seaguy2010]

Thanks for the advice with UCLA extention. It seems like unless I was going into corporate law, getting a full MBA might not be as beneficial.

[Danteshek]

Thanks for the advice with UCLA extention. It seems like unless I was going into corporate law, getting a full MBA might not be as beneficial.

Even if you do want to practice corporate law, an MBA is not necessary. If you really want the MBA I think you should go to a top program, work a few years, and then go to law school. Alternatively, you could do a JD/MBA at a Wharton/Chicago or even UCLA. JD/MBA from LMU will not carry nearly as much weight, especially considering your limited experience.

[seaguy2010]

If someone wanted to pursue corporate law, what do you think about the option of getting a JD, working, and then going back to a school like Wharton to get an MBA? Seems like it would be pretty difficult to put things on hold for 2 years after you've gotten started.

[Danteshek]

If someone wanted to pursue corporate law, what do you think about the option of getting a JD, working, and then going back to a school like Wharton to get an MBA? Seems like it would be pretty difficult to put things on hold for 2 years after you've gotten started.

Lawyers are almost never admitted to Wharton. The only reasonable option is to do MBA first, provided you get into a top program. Then you can decide if you want to become a lawyer.

[predent/prelaw]

Have you ever had people go from loyola to william morris/ CAA mail room? This is not a joke I know this sounds ridiculous but most of the agents I have heard of are law school grads or drop outs

[NoleinNY]

Have you ever had people go from loyola to william morris/ CAA mail room? This is not a joke I know this sounds ridiculous but most of the agents I have heard of are law school grads or drop outs

From personal experience? No, I don't. The closest example is a rumor that a guy in another section who was being put through school by his pro-athlete friends so he could become their lawyer/agent.

I'm sure there must be some people who do the LS -> Prestigious Agency Mailroom route, but I haven't met them personally. Personally, I am of the mindset that you don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer.

[predent/prelaw]

Have you ever had people go from loyola to william morris/ CAA mail room? This is not a joke I know this sounds ridiculous but most of the agents I have heard of are law school grads or drop outs

From personal experience? No, I don't. The closest example is a rumor that a guy in another section who was being put through school by his pro-athlete friends so he could become their lawyer/agent.

I'm sure there must be some people who do the LS -> Prestigious Agency Mailroom route, but I haven't met them personally. Personally, I am of the mindset that you don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer.

I really want to do law but really I only want to work in the court room. So if I don't get it or get shit law. I would rather struggle towards another passion than hating my existence

[NoleinNY]

Have you ever had people go from loyola to william morris/ CAA mail room? This is not a joke I know this sounds ridiculous but most of the agents I have heard of are law school grads or drop outs

From personal experience? No, I don't. The closest example is a rumor that a guy in another section who was being put through school by his pro-athlete friends so he could become their lawyer/agent.

I'm sure there must be some people who do the LS -> Prestigious Agency Mailroom route, but I haven't met them personally. Personally, I am of the mindset that you don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer.

I really want to do law but really I only want to work in the court room. So if I don't get it or get shit law. I would rather struggle towards another passion than hating my existence

Understandable. Keep in mind, however, not all lawyers (hell, not even all lawyers in prestigious firms) do litigation. A lot of law is transactional. Even of the firms that do litigation, going to trial isn't the de facto option. Depending on the organization, it is rare to even get into a courtroom in your first few years of practice. Only a fraction of cases ever get there, anyway. I will say, Loyola is known for producing damn good litigators and puts a lot of emphasis on it.

What is your definition of shit law, by the way? Is it the traditional TLS definition like insurance defense and DUI work definition or is it anything that isn't BigLaw/MidLaw/Government/PI?

[Danteshek]

Have you ever had people go from loyola to william morris/ CAA mail room? This is not a joke I know this sounds ridiculous but most of the agents I have heard of are law school grads or drop outs

From personal experience? No, I don't. The closest example is a rumor that a guy in another section who was being put through school by his pro-athlete friends so he could become their lawyer/agent.

I'm sure there must be some people who do the LS -> Prestigious Agency Mailroom route, but I haven't met them personally. Personally, I am of the mindset that you don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer.

I really want to do law but really I only want to work in the court room. So if I don't get it or get shit law. I would rather struggle towards another passion than hating my existence

If you really want to get in the courtroom, then small law firm litigation work (shitlaw, according to you) is the fastest way to do it.

[thepete]

What is the general consensus amongst the LLM students regarding the job prospects? Is it as bad as the way TLS posters speculate them to be, and saying if you don't land on top 30% you shouldn't attend the school? Because according to the employment data provided by Loyola themselves in 2009, more than 90% of the grad students landed jobs somewhere within 9 months.. And just on the sidenote, I will be content with a starting salary of 70k as long as the increase is annual.. (I am not a big law firm or I am outta this gutta hole type).

Thanks~

[Danteshek]

What is the general consensus amongst the LLM students regarding the job prospects? Is it as bad as the way TLS posters speculate them to be, and saying if you don't land on top 30% you shouldn't attend the school? Because according to the employment data provided by Loyola themselves in 2009, more than 90% of the grad students landed jobs somewhere within 9 months.. And just on the sidenote, I will be content with a starting salary of 70k as long as the increase is annual.. (I am not a big law firm or I am outta this gutta hole type).

Thanks~

The Tax LLM at Loyola is quite small, so it is hard to make generalizons about employment prospects. Much of that will turn on whether you have a background in tax and how well you do in the program. I will say that the tax faculty is really wonderful, though!

[thepete]

True true.. What about the "non-LLM" student body at the law school? I realized that the employment data provided by the school was actually the overall data of the students. Of course I do understand that a lot of job searching responsibility comes down to the students themselves, but I am wondering if students will still be able to find a job if they are ranked around 50% of the class granted they assume the job responsibility.

[predent/prelaw]

Have you ever had people go from loyola to william morris/ CAA mail room? This is not a joke I know this sounds ridiculous but most of the agents I have heard of are law school grads or drop outs

From personal experience? No, I don't. The closest example is a rumor that a guy in another section who was being put through school by his pro-athlete friends so he could become their lawyer/agent.

I'm sure there must be some people who do the LS -> Prestigious Agency Mailroom route, but I haven't met them personally. Personally, I am of the mindset that you don't go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer.

I really want to do law but really I only want to work in the court room. So if I don't get it or get shit law. I would rather struggle towards another passion than hating my existence

If you really want to get in the courtroom, then small law firm litigation work (shitlaw, according to you) is the fastest way to do it.

I really want to do plaintiff's side product liability litigation. The way I see all the good ones do it besides maybe Gerry Spence haha!!! They do "the dark side" aka big law and then flip?

[Danteshek]

True true.. What about the "non-LLM" student body at the law school? I realized that the employment data provided by the school was actually the overall data of the students. Of course I do understand that a lot of job searching responsibility comes down to the students themselves, but I am wondering if students will still be able to find a job if they are ranked around 50% of the class granted they assume the job responsibility.

Again, it will depend on the individual person.

[NoleinNY]

True true.. What about the "non-LLM" student body at the law school? I realized that the employment data provided by the school was actually the overall data of the students. Of course I do understand that a lot of job searching responsibility comes down to the students themselves, but I am wondering if students will still be able to find a job if they are ranked around 50% of the class granted they assume the job responsibility.

In theory, a median (50%) should be able to find a job. Approximately 2/3 of people graduate employed; as said before, however, it depends on the individual person.

EDITED FOR COHERENCE.

[thepete]

True true.. What about the "non-LLM" student body at the law school? I realized that the employment data provided by the school was actually the overall data of the students. Of course I do understand that a lot of job searching responsibility comes down to the students themselves, but I am wondering if students will still be able to find a job if they are ranked around 50% of the class granted they assume the job responsibility.

In theory, I see no reason to assume infer that a median student (50%) can find a job. Approximately 2/3 of people graduate employed; as said before, however, it depends on the individual person.

Wait, you do NOT see reason to assume that a median student CAN find a job when approx. 2/3 of people graduate employed? Don't you mean you DO see a reason to assume that median student can find a job, being 2/3 is more than 50%?

Just confused and wanted to clarify. Thanks!

[Danteshek]

There is a difference between "can find a legal job" and "will have the perfect job handed on a silver platter". There is also a lot in between. I think the median Loyola student is somewhere in between.

[NoleinNY]

True true.. What about the "non-LLM" student body at the law school? I realized that the employment data provided by the school was actually the overall data of the students. Of course I do understand that a lot of job searching responsibility comes down to the students themselves, but I am wondering if students will still be able to find a job if they are ranked around 50% of the class granted they assume the job responsibility.

In theory, I see no reason to assume infer that a median student (50%) can find a job. Approximately 2/3 of people graduate employed; as said before, however, it depends on the individual person.

Wait, you do NOT see reason to assume that a median student CAN find a job when approx. 2/3 of people graduate employed? Don't you mean you DO see a reason to assume that median student can find a job, being 2/3 is more than 50%?

Just confused and wanted to clarify. Thanks!

Yes, crap.... I've been feeling ill lately so my thoughts aren't that coherent.... What I meant to say was "I see no reason to assume a median student cannot find a job" or, to be even clearer, "A median student CAN find a job and the stats don't give me a particular reason to doubt this."

[1ferret!]

The vast majority of students will find jobs. The real difference is whether they will start out in a position they feel is ideal, or whether they will have to work at for several years. If your only goal is biglaw out of the gate, your prospects will largely be impacted by your class rank. However, that doesn't mean you can't work toward that after several years building a skill set, or that you won't find engaging or gratifying legal work out of the gate. The ranking limitation applies mostly to the biglaw or bust crowd or those seeking other prestigious work off the bat such as federal clerkships in desirable markets.

[thepete]

Ah, thanks a lot guys! Yes, I am not one of those "big law or bust" type of guys and fine with paying loan for 10 years.. (which might sound ludicrous to some of you readers). To me, life is not all about make 100k and shut down the mall. I am content with making 70k and working my way up. I prefer to get paid less and have a social life rather than have myself encapsulated by 100k+, though driving in cherry M7 like Biggie will be a nice experience to have.