What was the HLS magna cutoff last year? Forum
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What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
3L thinking about post-graduate clerkship applications now. Will end up somewhere between 3.95-4.0 if I get straight Hs in my last semester, depending on how many credits I take. Trying to increase my chances at hitting a magna by adding/dropping certain classes or taking certain classes p/f. Heard that the 2022 magna cut-off was above 4.0 ... trying to see if it was because of real inflation or just Covid p/f. Any insights are much appreciated.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
I like how I went to YLS so I don't have to indulge in the class rank rat-raceAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 5:41 pm3L thinking about post-graduate clerkship applications now. Will end up somewhere between 3.95-4.0 if I get straight Hs in my last semester, depending on how many credits I take. Trying to increase my chances at hitting a magna by adding/dropping certain classes or taking certain classes p/f. Heard that the 2022 magna cut-off was above 4.0 ... trying to see if it was because of real inflation or just Covid p/f. Any insights are much appreciated.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
2023 was somewhere between a 3.99 and a 4.02. I know someone who missed with a 3.98 and someone who made it with a 4.03. Consensus was that was a bit higher than expected.
2022 was supposedly above a 4.1 though; very close friend missed with a 4.06 and was furious
2022 was supposedly above a 4.1 though; very close friend missed with a 4.06 and was furious
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
Thank you so much. In that case, I guess I can't really get there by playing with the credits . . . I'll need another net DS. It'd be heartbreaking if I ended up missing it by something like .01 but it is what it is.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:44 am2023 was somewhere between a 3.99 and a 4.02. I know someone who missed with a 3.98 and someone who made it with a 4.03. Consensus was that was a bit higher than expected.
2022 was supposedly above a 4.1 though; very close friend missed with a 4.06 and was furious
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
I was speaking in the third person for no good reason lol, I missed it by .002 (3.988 vs 3.99). The HLS system is a good shield for obscuring in the middle but the margins are brutally fine at the topAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 5:36 amThank you so much. In that case, I guess I can't really get there by playing with the credits . . . I'll need another net DS. It'd be heartbreaking if I ended up missing it by something like .01 but it is what it is.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:44 am2023 was somewhere between a 3.99 and a 4.02. I know someone who missed with a 3.98 and someone who made it with a 4.03. Consensus was that was a bit higher than expected.
2022 was supposedly above a 4.1 though; very close friend missed with a 4.06 and was furious
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
Thanks for the info! The margins are indeed brutally fine... Well, at least I still have a chance. I'll try my best and live with the results.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 11:00 amI was speaking in the third person for no good reason lol, I missed it by .002 (3.988 vs 3.99). The HLS system is a good shield for obscuring in the middle but the margins are brutally fine at the topAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 5:36 amThank you so much. In that case, I guess I can't really get there by playing with the credits . . . I'll need another net DS. It'd be heartbreaking if I ended up missing it by something like .01 but it is what it is.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:44 am2023 was somewhere between a 3.99 and a 4.02. I know someone who missed with a 3.98 and someone who made it with a 4.03. Consensus was that was a bit higher than expected.
2022 was supposedly above a 4.1 though; very close friend missed with a 4.06 and was furious
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
Wow there's that much grade inflation at Harvard? The magna cutoff for my T-14 is around a 3.2~
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
I'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:06 pmWow there's that much grade inflation at Harvard? The magna cutoff for my T-14 is around a 3.2~
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
Yeah, grades at HLS exist within a pretty unique context, so outside a very narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "grade inflation." A couple points (ultimately not that important, but a good excuse to procrastinate):Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:23 pmI'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:06 pmWow there's that much grade inflation at Harvard? The magna cutoff for my T-14 is around a 3.2~
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
1. It doesn't make sense to compare a GPA at HLS to a GPA at a T-14. At HLS, you get a 5.0 for a DS, a 4.0 for an H, and a 3.0 for a P. For a class w/ 30+ students, there's supposedly a curve where the top ~30% of students get Hs and ~5-10% can get DSes. For seminars, no real restrictions AFAIK.
2. A GPA of 4.0 historically guarantees magna, which means that if you can be in the top 30% of every big class you take and do a decent job in your seminars, you can get there. But realistically, even top students get a P or two, so you also need to get a DS or two.
3. By the same token, to be comfortably w/in the top tier of the class, you need multiple DSes. The very top will have something like 10-12 DSes and 1-2 Ps at the end.
4. The magna cutoff has slowly creeped up over the years, mostly b/c professors give out more DSes than they did when the grading system just debuted. Anecdotally, I've heard that professors initially thought that giving a DS was the same as giving an A+ in the old system, maybe 1-2 for a class of 80. That attitude has changed, so now professors will give out 4-5 for a class of 80, if not more.
5. It only makes sense to talk about grade inflation when comparing an applicant from HLS with an applicant from SLS. At SLS it's both harder to get an H and harder to get a book prize. So if you're comparing an HLS student who's top 15% w/ an SLS student who's top 15%, the HLS student is likely to have more Hs and DSes.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
HLS 2L here--how are y'all calculating GPAs?
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
Harvard counts DS at 5, H as 4, and P as 3.
But Harvard also does a weird thing where when calculating Latin honors, they don't calculate the transcript as a whole. Instead, you calculate the grade for each year, then each year is weighted equally regardless of credits.
So your 1L year is weighted identically to your 3L year for your overall calculation , even though you likely took less credits your 3L year.
Also this doesn't matter outside of a super small context. Nobody really cares in the real world.
But Harvard also does a weird thing where when calculating Latin honors, they don't calculate the transcript as a whole. Instead, you calculate the grade for each year, then each year is weighted equally regardless of credits.
So your 1L year is weighted identically to your 3L year for your overall calculation , even though you likely took less credits your 3L year.
Also this doesn't matter outside of a super small context. Nobody really cares in the real world.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
#3 seems a bit high. The person who won Sears for 2L in my class posted their DS's on linkedin (lol) and they had 5 across 1L and 2L, but only 2 from 2L classes. If 2 DS's is high enough to pull Sears, no way there's a tier of student graduating with 10-12.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:48 amYeah, grades at HLS exist within a pretty unique context, so outside a very narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "grade inflation." A couple points (ultimately not that important, but a good excuse to procrastinate):Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:23 pmI'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:06 pmWow there's that much grade inflation at Harvard? The magna cutoff for my T-14 is around a 3.2~
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
1. It doesn't make sense to compare a GPA at HLS to a GPA at a T-14. At HLS, you get a 5.0 for a DS, a 4.0 for an H, and a 3.0 for a P. For a class w/ 30+ students, there's supposedly a curve where the top ~30% of students get Hs and ~5-10% can get DSes. For seminars, no real restrictions AFAIK.
2. A GPA of 4.0 historically guarantees magna, which means that if you can be in the top 30% of every big class you take and do a decent job in your seminars, you can get there. But realistically, even top students get a P or two, so you also need to get a DS or two.
3. By the same token, to be comfortably w/in the top tier of the class, you need multiple DSes. The very top will have something like 10-12 DSes and 1-2 Ps at the end.
4. The magna cutoff has slowly creeped up over the years, mostly b/c professors give out more DSes than they did when the grading system just debuted. Anecdotally, I've heard that professors initially thought that giving a DS was the same as giving an A+ in the old system, maybe 1-2 for a class of 80. That attitude has changed, so now professors will give out 4-5 for a class of 80, if not more.
5. It only makes sense to talk about grade inflation when comparing an applicant from HLS with an applicant from SLS. At SLS it's both harder to get an H and harder to get a book prize. So if you're comparing an HLS student who's top 15% w/ an SLS student who's top 15%, the HLS student is likely to have more Hs and DSes.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
Just hopping on to say that I think your year might be an aberration. I'm a 3L with substantially higher grades than what you just listed and I didn't get either 1L or 2L Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:44 am#3 seems a bit high. The person who won Sears for 2L in my class posted their DS's on linkedin (lol) and they had 5 across 1L and 2L, but only 2 from 2L classes. If 2 DS's is high enough to pull Sears, no way there's a tier of student graduating with 10-12.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:48 amYeah, grades at HLS exist within a pretty unique context, so outside a very narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "grade inflation." A couple points (ultimately not that important, but a good excuse to procrastinate):Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:23 pmI'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:06 pmWow there's that much grade inflation at Harvard? The magna cutoff for my T-14 is around a 3.2~
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
1. It doesn't make sense to compare a GPA at HLS to a GPA at a T-14. At HLS, you get a 5.0 for a DS, a 4.0 for an H, and a 3.0 for a P. For a class w/ 30+ students, there's supposedly a curve where the top ~30% of students get Hs and ~5-10% can get DSes. For seminars, no real restrictions AFAIK.
2. A GPA of 4.0 historically guarantees magna, which means that if you can be in the top 30% of every big class you take and do a decent job in your seminars, you can get there. But realistically, even top students get a P or two, so you also need to get a DS or two.
3. By the same token, to be comfortably w/in the top tier of the class, you need multiple DSes. The very top will have something like 10-12 DSes and 1-2 Ps at the end.
4. The magna cutoff has slowly creeped up over the years, mostly b/c professors give out more DSes than they did when the grading system just debuted. Anecdotally, I've heard that professors initially thought that giving a DS was the same as giving an A+ in the old system, maybe 1-2 for a class of 80. That attitude has changed, so now professors will give out 4-5 for a class of 80, if not more.
5. It only makes sense to talk about grade inflation when comparing an applicant from HLS with an applicant from SLS. At SLS it's both harder to get an H and harder to get a book prize. So if you're comparing an HLS student who's top 15% w/ an SLS student who's top 15%, the HLS student is likely to have more Hs and DSes.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
I saw a clerkship applicant who had 4 or 5 DSs after 1L without Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:42 pmJust hopping on to say that I think your year might be an aberration. I'm a 3L with substantially higher grades than what you just listed and I didn't get either 1L or 2L Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:44 am#3 seems a bit high. The person who won Sears for 2L in my class posted their DS's on linkedin (lol) and they had 5 across 1L and 2L, but only 2 from 2L classes. If 2 DS's is high enough to pull Sears, no way there's a tier of student graduating with 10-12.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:48 amYeah, grades at HLS exist within a pretty unique context, so outside a very narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "grade inflation." A couple points (ultimately not that important, but a good excuse to procrastinate):Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:23 pmI'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:06 pmWow there's that much grade inflation at Harvard? The magna cutoff for my T-14 is around a 3.2~
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
1. It doesn't make sense to compare a GPA at HLS to a GPA at a T-14. At HLS, you get a 5.0 for a DS, a 4.0 for an H, and a 3.0 for a P. For a class w/ 30+ students, there's supposedly a curve where the top ~30% of students get Hs and ~5-10% can get DSes. For seminars, no real restrictions AFAIK.
2. A GPA of 4.0 historically guarantees magna, which means that if you can be in the top 30% of every big class you take and do a decent job in your seminars, you can get there. But realistically, even top students get a P or two, so you also need to get a DS or two.
3. By the same token, to be comfortably w/in the top tier of the class, you need multiple DSes. The very top will have something like 10-12 DSes and 1-2 Ps at the end.
4. The magna cutoff has slowly creeped up over the years, mostly b/c professors give out more DSes than they did when the grading system just debuted. Anecdotally, I've heard that professors initially thought that giving a DS was the same as giving an A+ in the old system, maybe 1-2 for a class of 80. That attitude has changed, so now professors will give out 4-5 for a class of 80, if not more.
5. It only makes sense to talk about grade inflation when comparing an applicant from HLS with an applicant from SLS. At SLS it's both harder to get an H and harder to get a book prize. So if you're comparing an HLS student who's top 15% w/ an SLS student who's top 15%, the HLS student is likely to have more Hs and DSes.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
This sounds right to me.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:15 pmI saw a clerkship applicant who had 4 or 5 DSs after 1L without Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:42 pmJust hopping on to say that I think your year might be an aberration. I'm a 3L with substantially higher grades than what you just listed and I didn't get either 1L or 2L Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:44 am#3 seems a bit high. The person who won Sears for 2L in my class posted their DS's on linkedin (lol) and they had 5 across 1L and 2L, but only 2 from 2L classes. If 2 DS's is high enough to pull Sears, no way there's a tier of student graduating with 10-12.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:48 amYeah, grades at HLS exist within a pretty unique context, so outside a very narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "grade inflation." A couple points (ultimately not that important, but a good excuse to procrastinate):Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:23 pmI'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:06 pmWow there's that much grade inflation at Harvard? The magna cutoff for my T-14 is around a 3.2~
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
1. It doesn't make sense to compare a GPA at HLS to a GPA at a T-14. At HLS, you get a 5.0 for a DS, a 4.0 for an H, and a 3.0 for a P. For a class w/ 30+ students, there's supposedly a curve where the top ~30% of students get Hs and ~5-10% can get DSes. For seminars, no real restrictions AFAIK.
2. A GPA of 4.0 historically guarantees magna, which means that if you can be in the top 30% of every big class you take and do a decent job in your seminars, you can get there. But realistically, even top students get a P or two, so you also need to get a DS or two.
3. By the same token, to be comfortably w/in the top tier of the class, you need multiple DSes. The very top will have something like 10-12 DSes and 1-2 Ps at the end.
4. The magna cutoff has slowly creeped up over the years, mostly b/c professors give out more DSes than they did when the grading system just debuted. Anecdotally, I've heard that professors initially thought that giving a DS was the same as giving an A+ in the old system, maybe 1-2 for a class of 80. That attitude has changed, so now professors will give out 4-5 for a class of 80, if not more.
5. It only makes sense to talk about grade inflation when comparing an applicant from HLS with an applicant from SLS. At SLS it's both harder to get an H and harder to get a book prize. So if you're comparing an HLS student who's top 15% w/ an SLS student who's top 15%, the HLS student is likely to have more Hs and DSes.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
That's fucking crazy, and to think I felt p good about graduating with 5 in the aggregate lmaoAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:15 pmI saw a clerkship applicant who had 4 or 5 DSs after 1L without Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:42 pmJust hopping on to say that I think your year might be an aberration. I'm a 3L with substantially higher grades than what you just listed and I didn't get either 1L or 2L Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:44 am#3 seems a bit high. The person who won Sears for 2L in my class posted their DS's on linkedin (lol) and they had 5 across 1L and 2L, but only 2 from 2L classes. If 2 DS's is high enough to pull Sears, no way there's a tier of student graduating with 10-12.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:48 amYeah, grades at HLS exist within a pretty unique context, so outside a very narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "grade inflation." A couple points (ultimately not that important, but a good excuse to procrastinate):Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:23 pmI'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:06 pmWow there's that much grade inflation at Harvard? The magna cutoff for my T-14 is around a 3.2~
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
1. It doesn't make sense to compare a GPA at HLS to a GPA at a T-14. At HLS, you get a 5.0 for a DS, a 4.0 for an H, and a 3.0 for a P. For a class w/ 30+ students, there's supposedly a curve where the top ~30% of students get Hs and ~5-10% can get DSes. For seminars, no real restrictions AFAIK.
2. A GPA of 4.0 historically guarantees magna, which means that if you can be in the top 30% of every big class you take and do a decent job in your seminars, you can get there. But realistically, even top students get a P or two, so you also need to get a DS or two.
3. By the same token, to be comfortably w/in the top tier of the class, you need multiple DSes. The very top will have something like 10-12 DSes and 1-2 Ps at the end.
4. The magna cutoff has slowly creeped up over the years, mostly b/c professors give out more DSes than they did when the grading system just debuted. Anecdotally, I've heard that professors initially thought that giving a DS was the same as giving an A+ in the old system, maybe 1-2 for a class of 80. That attitude has changed, so now professors will give out 4-5 for a class of 80, if not more.
5. It only makes sense to talk about grade inflation when comparing an applicant from HLS with an applicant from SLS. At SLS it's both harder to get an H and harder to get a book prize. So if you're comparing an HLS student who's top 15% w/ an SLS student who's top 15%, the HLS student is likely to have more Hs and DSes.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
You'd probably need at least 7 DS's 1L to get Sears, maybe more.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 1:38 amThat's fucking crazy, and to think I felt p good about graduating with 5 in the aggregate lmaoAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:15 pmI saw a clerkship applicant who had 4 or 5 DSs after 1L without Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:42 pmJust hopping on to say that I think your year might be an aberration. I'm a 3L with substantially higher grades than what you just listed and I didn't get either 1L or 2L Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:44 am#3 seems a bit high. The person who won Sears for 2L in my class posted their DS's on linkedin (lol) and they had 5 across 1L and 2L, but only 2 from 2L classes. If 2 DS's is high enough to pull Sears, no way there's a tier of student graduating with 10-12.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:48 amYeah, grades at HLS exist within a pretty unique context, so outside a very narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "grade inflation." A couple points (ultimately not that important, but a good excuse to procrastinate):Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:23 pmI'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 4:06 pmWow there's that much grade inflation at Harvard? The magna cutoff for my T-14 is around a 3.2~
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
1. It doesn't make sense to compare a GPA at HLS to a GPA at a T-14. At HLS, you get a 5.0 for a DS, a 4.0 for an H, and a 3.0 for a P. For a class w/ 30+ students, there's supposedly a curve where the top ~30% of students get Hs and ~5-10% can get DSes. For seminars, no real restrictions AFAIK.
2. A GPA of 4.0 historically guarantees magna, which means that if you can be in the top 30% of every big class you take and do a decent job in your seminars, you can get there. But realistically, even top students get a P or two, so you also need to get a DS or two.
3. By the same token, to be comfortably w/in the top tier of the class, you need multiple DSes. The very top will have something like 10-12 DSes and 1-2 Ps at the end.
4. The magna cutoff has slowly creeped up over the years, mostly b/c professors give out more DSes than they did when the grading system just debuted. Anecdotally, I've heard that professors initially thought that giving a DS was the same as giving an A+ in the old system, maybe 1-2 for a class of 80. That attitude has changed, so now professors will give out 4-5 for a class of 80, if not more.
5. It only makes sense to talk about grade inflation when comparing an applicant from HLS with an applicant from SLS. At SLS it's both harder to get an H and harder to get a book prize. So if you're comparing an HLS student who's top 15% w/ an SLS student who's top 15%, the HLS student is likely to have more Hs and DSes.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
You take 7 doctrinals + an elective 1L lolAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:20 pmYou'd probably need at least 7 DS's 1L to get Sears, maybe more.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 1:38 amThat's fucking crazy, and to think I felt p good about graduating with 5 in the aggregate lmaoAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:15 pmI saw a clerkship applicant who had 4 or 5 DSs after 1L without Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:42 pmJust hopping on to say that I think your year might be an aberration. I'm a 3L with substantially higher grades than what you just listed and I didn't get either 1L or 2L Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:44 am#3 seems a bit high. The person who won Sears for 2L in my class posted their DS's on linkedin (lol) and they had 5 across 1L and 2L, but only 2 from 2L classes. If 2 DS's is high enough to pull Sears, no way there's a tier of student graduating with 10-12.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:48 amYeah, grades at HLS exist within a pretty unique context, so outside a very narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "grade inflation." A couple points (ultimately not that important, but a good excuse to procrastinate):Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:23 pm
I'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
1. It doesn't make sense to compare a GPA at HLS to a GPA at a T-14. At HLS, you get a 5.0 for a DS, a 4.0 for an H, and a 3.0 for a P. For a class w/ 30+ students, there's supposedly a curve where the top ~30% of students get Hs and ~5-10% can get DSes. For seminars, no real restrictions AFAIK.
2. A GPA of 4.0 historically guarantees magna, which means that if you can be in the top 30% of every big class you take and do a decent job in your seminars, you can get there. But realistically, even top students get a P or two, so you also need to get a DS or two.
3. By the same token, to be comfortably w/in the top tier of the class, you need multiple DSes. The very top will have something like 10-12 DSes and 1-2 Ps at the end.
4. The magna cutoff has slowly creeped up over the years, mostly b/c professors give out more DSes than they did when the grading system just debuted. Anecdotally, I've heard that professors initially thought that giving a DS was the same as giving an A+ in the old system, maybe 1-2 for a class of 80. That attitude has changed, so now professors will give out 4-5 for a class of 80, if not more.
5. It only makes sense to talk about grade inflation when comparing an applicant from HLS with an applicant from SLS. At SLS it's both harder to get an H and harder to get a book prize. So if you're comparing an HLS student who's top 15% w/ an SLS student who's top 15%, the HLS student is likely to have more Hs and DSes.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
You can get DS's in Legal Research and WritingAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 1:23 amYou take 7 doctrinals + an elective 1L lolAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:20 pm
You'd probably need at least 7 DS's 1L to get Sears, maybe more.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
2 credits thoAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:46 amYou can get DS's in Legal Research and WritingAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 1:23 amYou take 7 doctrinals + an elective 1L lolAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:20 pm
You'd probably need at least 7 DS's 1L to get Sears, maybe more.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
Yeah, for that reason, 5 DSes that consist of three doctrinals and two LRWs is usually not good enough for Sears 1L. But 5-6 DSes in all doctrinals may be good enough (if no Ps).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:57 pm2 credits thoAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:46 amYou can get DS's in Legal Research and WritingAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 1:23 amYou take 7 doctrinals + an elective 1L lolAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:20 pm
You'd probably need at least 7 DS's 1L to get Sears, maybe more.
The person graduating with the Fay/summa will usually have like 13-15 DSes and 0-2 Ps. What's crazy is that doesn't even get you close to the "true summa." Hard to tell if anyone's gotten that since the switch to the new grading system, but assuming 4 classes per semester and 2 graded J-term classes (26 graded classes total), you'd need roughly 20 DSes and 0 Ps. The handful of people who've gotten that in the past were simply built different lol
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
What's a "true summa"?
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
Historically, you could only get summa if you pulled a GPA over a 5.0; so - a GPA of the highest grade you can receive under the current system.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
I have seen a transcript of a rising 3L with Sears. They had 6 DS's 1L year and 7 DS's 2L year, no P's.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:20 pmYou'd probably need at least 7 DS's 1L to get Sears, maybe more.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 1:38 amThat's fucking crazy, and to think I felt p good about graduating with 5 in the aggregate lmaoAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:15 pmI saw a clerkship applicant who had 4 or 5 DSs after 1L without Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:42 pmJust hopping on to say that I think your year might be an aberration. I'm a 3L with substantially higher grades than what you just listed and I didn't get either 1L or 2L Sears.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:44 am#3 seems a bit high. The person who won Sears for 2L in my class posted their DS's on linkedin (lol) and they had 5 across 1L and 2L, but only 2 from 2L classes. If 2 DS's is high enough to pull Sears, no way there's a tier of student graduating with 10-12.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:48 amYeah, grades at HLS exist within a pretty unique context, so outside a very narrow set of circumstances, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "grade inflation." A couple points (ultimately not that important, but a good excuse to procrastinate):Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:23 pm
I'm shocked there's a magna cutoff that low at a good school!
Tbh though, I dont really think you can have meaningful grade inflation when people are on a curve - the thresholds for opportunities track class ranking over flat GPA.
For HLS, I think it is kinda just by virtue of the H/P system, you either get a 4.0 or a 3.0 and the top students consistently get Hs so magna ends up near a 4.0.
I'd be very curious what the distribution looks like - since consensus for cum laude and median are around a 3.6 and 3.4, respectively.
1. It doesn't make sense to compare a GPA at HLS to a GPA at a T-14. At HLS, you get a 5.0 for a DS, a 4.0 for an H, and a 3.0 for a P. For a class w/ 30+ students, there's supposedly a curve where the top ~30% of students get Hs and ~5-10% can get DSes. For seminars, no real restrictions AFAIK.
2. A GPA of 4.0 historically guarantees magna, which means that if you can be in the top 30% of every big class you take and do a decent job in your seminars, you can get there. But realistically, even top students get a P or two, so you also need to get a DS or two.
3. By the same token, to be comfortably w/in the top tier of the class, you need multiple DSes. The very top will have something like 10-12 DSes and 1-2 Ps at the end.
4. The magna cutoff has slowly creeped up over the years, mostly b/c professors give out more DSes than they did when the grading system just debuted. Anecdotally, I've heard that professors initially thought that giving a DS was the same as giving an A+ in the old system, maybe 1-2 for a class of 80. That attitude has changed, so now professors will give out 4-5 for a class of 80, if not more.
5. It only makes sense to talk about grade inflation when comparing an applicant from HLS with an applicant from SLS. At SLS it's both harder to get an H and harder to get a book prize. So if you're comparing an HLS student who's top 15% w/ an SLS student who's top 15%, the HLS student is likely to have more Hs and DSes.
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Re: What was the HLS magna cutoff last year?
I think it's 4.75, but yeah, the #1 student wouldn't automatically get Summa. If they were below 4.75, they'd get magna and the Fay prizeAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:54 amHistorically, you could only get summa if you pulled a GPA over a 5.0; so - a GPA of the highest grade you can receive under the current system.
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