Penn Clerkship Discussion/Movement Forum

[Anonymous User]

We had a record good year for clerkships, much better than last year at bare minimum. IDK why everyone's bitching so much.

[Anonymous User]

We had a record good year for clerkships, much better than last year at bare minimum. IDK why everyone's bitching so much.

How do you know?

[Anonymous User]

What grades and credentials do I realistically need for EDNY/SDNY at Penn? How about DDC?

[Anonymous User]

What grades and credentials do I realistically need for EDNY/SDNY at Penn? How about DDC?

Bump.

[Anonymous User]

What grades and credentials do I realistically need for EDNY/SDNY at Penn? How about DDC?

Bump.

There just is no good answer to this question. Clerkship hiring is not like applying to law school. There is no number that automatically positions you for success. But if you must have an actual number, I’d say anyone with like a 3.75-3.8ish has a high enough GPA for it to not be an issue for most judges. Ideally you want it higher, though your GPA alone cannot make you a strong applicant in these districts unless you are basically summa. And many judges, even the very selective ones, pick clerks with mediocre grades from time to time but those applicants always have other plus factors. If you are depending on your GPA to differentiate you, then you are not one of those applicants. Again, there is no set list of what these plus factors are and it varies a ton from judge to judge. But some common examples I’ve seen would be military service, compelling life-story that is apparent, high-level collegiate athletics, meaningful publications or writing history, strong pre-law-school work experience, and those fancy scholarships like the Rhodes or the Marshall.

[Anonymous User]

My understanding is that 1-2 people a year get those competitive districts from Penn and they are almost all at or near the top of the class (as in 3.9+). That being said, plenty of summa and manga-level applicants from Penn strike out at those courts so the grades are not sufficient alone. The #1 or #2 person in the 3L class is going to SDNY and there is maybe one or two other people who got one of those districts as well in the 3L class.

[Anonymous User]

After reading through this thread, it seems to me that the recent couple rounds of the USNWR rankings have really done a number on Penn students. Insofar as rankings matter to clerkship hiring, they matter as of the time they got locked into judges' minds. The posters here are misguidedly focused on HYS outcomes as measuring sticks. But that's not how older attorneys (relevantly judges) see Penn. The more apt comparators are the Michigans and Virginias and Berkeleys. The HYS/CCN/MVP etc. breakdown seems way more useful here. Chicago and Virginia seem to have broken out of that paradigm (notably, along with Notre Dame/Vandy/Bama/Texas) due to ideological reasons. But without another distinguishing factor, you all should be thinking about Michigan more than Harvard.

[Anonymous User]

After reading through this thread, it seems to me that the recent couple rounds of the USNWR rankings have really done a number on Penn students. Insofar as rankings matter to clerkship hiring, they matter as of the time they got locked into judges' minds. The posters here are misguidedly focused on HYS outcomes as measuring sticks. But that's not how older attorneys (relevantly judges) see Penn. The more apt comparators are the Michigans and Virginias and Berkeleys. The HYS/CCN/MVP etc. breakdown seems way more useful here. Chicago and Virginia seem to have broken out of that paradigm (notably, along with Notre Dame/Vandy/Bama/Texas) due to ideological reasons. But without another distinguishing factor, you all should be thinking about Michigan more than Harvard.

Much of this thread is aspirational. It questions the administration’s decision not to hire connected faculty.

[Anonymous User]

Penn could do so much more to help students get clerkships. But they don't. Those who do get clerkships get them based on their own connections and networking.

So, 2Ls, network! Network! Network! Being on law review or having a 3.9 is not enough if you want more than EDPA or some random Hawaii state intermediate appellate court clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

After reading through this thread, it seems to me that the recent couple rounds of the USNWR rankings have really done a number on Penn students. Insofar as rankings matter to clerkship hiring, they matter as of the time they got locked into judges' minds. The posters here are misguidedly focused on HYS outcomes as measuring sticks. But that's not how older attorneys (relevantly judges) see Penn. The more apt comparators are the Michigans and Virginias and Berkeleys. The HYS/CCN/MVP etc. breakdown seems way more useful here. Chicago and Virginia seem to have broken out of that paradigm (notably, along with Notre Dame/Vandy/Bama/Texas) due to ideological reasons. But without another distinguishing factor, you all should be thinking about Michigan more than Harvard.

The fish rots from the head. Penn OCS tells students we’re like Harvard, shrugs when students don’t get HLS outcomes.

[Anonymous User]

For all of the Penn people reading this, I want to be real as someone who has gone through the process.

If you want SDNY/EDNY/DDC/CA2/CA9/DDC, you either need to be top 5% (~3.9+) and Law Review or have an insane hook (e.g. your parents are longtime friends of the judge).

Most other circuits, including CA3, barring a few judges who care strongly about diversity, are looking for top 10% or so (~ 3.8 ).

Want EDPA? Better be in the top quarter of the class or so. (~3.7)

That's the cold, hard truth.

[Anonymous User]

For all of the Penn people reading this, I want to be real as someone who has gone through the process.

If you want SDNY/EDNY/DDC/CA2/CA9/DDC, you either need to be top 5% (~3.9+) and Law Review or have an insane hook (e.g. your parents are longtime friends of the judge).

Most other circuits, including CA3, barring a few judges who care strongly about diversity, are looking for top 10% or so (~ 3.8 ).

Want EDPA? Better be in the top quarter of the class or so. (~3.7)

That's the cold, hard truth.

Not the case in the slightest bit. Consider better recommenders if you're out of those bands.

[Anonymous User]

Only like 2 people have NY/DC and they are tippy top of class.