Clerkship bonuses going up?

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thelastlaugh

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Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby thelastlaugh » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:16 pm

QE just increased its clerkship bonus to $105k for district/circuit clerks, with an additional $20k for those who have done two "qualifying" clerkships. Anyone want to wager whether we'll see other firms move up from $50k? QE previously went to $70k and I don't think there was a lot of movement among peers. I doubt there's appetite for increasing bonuses after relatively recently raising the NY scale, but I'd love someone to tell me I'm wrong.

I'd separately be interested in a list of firms that pay above $50k if anyone knows.

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sundance95

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby sundance95 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:36 pm

Doubt clerkship bonuses rise. Quinn's recruiting model is to not have a summer program (they cut it way back, only six last year) and instead poach clerks from their SA firms. Firms that still have expensive-ass summer programs aren't going to want to match that.

Of course, if this move leads to Quinn really dominating the clerk market, bonuses will move regardless of whether competitors want to raise them. But the negatives of being an associate at Quinn are sufficiently well-known that I doubt that happens.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:47 pm

I am a double clerk (D Ct./COA) and I recently successfully negotiated an increase from a $50k bonus to $70k. I think there’s some flexibility depending on the firm’s needs and the market, but like the above poster I would be surprised if many firms change their overall approach based on what QE is doing.

In the final analysis, and especially with taxes taken into account, I wouldn’t pick one firm over another based on a $20k difference — however, I thought it was worth sharing that some firms may be waiting for individual applicants to push back before giving in to the pressure to bump bonuses up.

wwwcol

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby wwwcol » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am a double clerk (D Ct./COA) and I recently successfully negotiated an increase from a $50k bonus to $70k. I think there’s some flexibility depending on the firm’s needs and the market, but like the above poster I would be surprised if many firms change their overall approach based on what QE is doing.

In the final analysis, and especially with taxes taken into account, I wouldn’t pick one firm over another based on a $20k difference — however, I thought it was worth sharing that some firms may be waiting for individual applicants to push back before giving in to the pressure to bump bonuses up.


70k is market for 2 clerkships though. Even if your firm matched market that doesn’t say much if anything about market going up

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sundance95

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby sundance95 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:29 am

wwwcol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a double clerk (D Ct./COA) and I recently successfully negotiated an increase from a $50k bonus to $70k. I think there’s some flexibility depending on the firm’s needs and the market, but like the above poster I would be surprised if many firms change their overall approach based on what QE is doing.

In the final analysis, and especially with taxes taken into account, I wouldn’t pick one firm over another based on a $20k difference — however, I thought it was worth sharing that some firms may be waiting for individual applicants to push back before giving in to the pressure to bump bonuses up.


70k is market for 2 clerkships though. Even if your firm matched market that doesn’t say much if anything about market going up

concur; if I read OP correctly, total QE bonus for a double clerk would be $125K. That $55K more--real money even with taxes, but of course far less than Quinn would have invested in a summer program (at least ~$39K per SA, with a significant washout-before-profitability rate).

My prediction that Quinn starts getting more one-and-dones than Kentucky, and abandons this in a year or two if they don't start seeing clerks stay. (John Quinn is legendarily tight. Their LA office resembles a regional airport.) Or maybe they start implementing a two-year bonus clawback period rather than a one-year clawback.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:38 am

sundance95 wrote:
wwwcol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a double clerk (D Ct./COA) and I recently successfully negotiated an increase from a $50k bonus to $70k. I think there’s some flexibility depending on the firm’s needs and the market, but like the above poster I would be surprised if many firms change their overall approach based on what QE is doing.

In the final analysis, and especially with taxes taken into account, I wouldn’t pick one firm over another based on a $20k difference — however, I thought it was worth sharing that some firms may be waiting for individual applicants to push back before giving in to the pressure to bump bonuses up.


70k is market for 2 clerkships though. Even if your firm matched market that doesn’t say much if anything about market going up

concur; if I read OP correctly, total QE bonus for a double clerk would be $125K. That $55K more--real money even with taxes, but of course far less than Quinn would have invested in a summer program (at least ~$39K per SA, with a significant washout-before-profitability rate).

My prediction that Quinn starts getting more one-and-dones than Kentucky, and abandons this in a year or two if they don't start seeing clerks stay. (John Quinn is legendarily tight. Their LA office resembles a regional airport.) Or maybe they start implementing a two-year bonus clawback period rather than a one-year clawback.


Quoted anon here. Fair enough; I didn't mean to suggest that the Quinn bonuses aren't significantly higher, but they come with the need to...work at QE. All three of the people I know who have gone there have fled within 12-18 months.

TLS has been assuming that 70k is market for two clerkships, but my experience has shown that this isn't the case. While a few firms loudly broadcast that policy, there are other good firms that will try to stick to 50k. In any case, even with one clerkship, my point was that you should try negotiating before accepting whatever number the firm throws at you.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:25 am

thelastlaugh wrote:I'd separately be interested in a list of firms that pay above $50k if anyone knows.


Kellogg Hansen mailed directly to chambers a couple weeks ago touting a $175k bonus for federal appellate clerks. Obviously this will not set the market.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:29 pm

sundance95 wrote:
wwwcol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a double clerk (D Ct./COA) and I recently successfully negotiated an increase from a $50k bonus to $70k. I think there’s some flexibility depending on the firm’s needs and the market, but like the above poster I would be surprised if many firms change their overall approach based on what QE is doing.

In the final analysis, and especially with taxes taken into account, I wouldn’t pick one firm over another based on a $20k difference — however, I thought it was worth sharing that some firms may be waiting for individual applicants to push back before giving in to the pressure to bump bonuses up.


70k is market for 2 clerkships though. Even if your firm matched market that doesn’t say much if anything about market going up

concur; if I read OP correctly, total QE bonus for a double clerk would be $125K. That $55K more--real money even with taxes, but of course far less than Quinn would have invested in a summer program (at least ~$39K per SA, with a significant washout-before-profitability rate).

My prediction that Quinn starts getting more one-and-dones than Kentucky, and abandons this in a year or two if they don't start seeing clerks stay. (John Quinn is legendarily tight. Their LA office resembles a regional airport.) Or maybe they start implementing a two-year bonus clawback period rather than a one-year clawback.


They’ve already gone to 2 years per their offer letter

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
sundance95 wrote:
wwwcol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a double clerk (D Ct./COA) and I recently successfully negotiated an increase from a $50k bonus to $70k. I think there’s some flexibility depending on the firm’s needs and the market, but like the above poster I would be surprised if many firms change their overall approach based on what QE is doing.

In the final analysis, and especially with taxes taken into account, I wouldn’t pick one firm over another based on a $20k difference — however, I thought it was worth sharing that some firms may be waiting for individual applicants to push back before giving in to the pressure to bump bonuses up.


70k is market for 2 clerkships though. Even if your firm matched market that doesn’t say much if anything about market going up

concur; if I read OP correctly, total QE bonus for a double clerk would be $125K. That $55K more--real money even with taxes, but of course far less than Quinn would have invested in a summer program (at least ~$39K per SA, with a significant washout-before-profitability rate).

My prediction that Quinn starts getting more one-and-dones than Kentucky, and abandons this in a year or two if they don't start seeing clerks stay. (John Quinn is legendarily tight. Their LA office resembles a regional airport.) Or maybe they start implementing a two-year bonus clawback period rather than a one-year clawback.


They’ve already gone to 2 years per their offer letter


Can anyone confirm this? I've tried looking and asking around, but have not been able to find anything.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
sundance95 wrote:
wwwcol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a double clerk (D Ct./COA) and I recently successfully negotiated an increase from a $50k bonus to $70k. I think there’s some flexibility depending on the firm’s needs and the market, but like the above poster I would be surprised if many firms change their overall approach based on what QE is doing.

In the final analysis, and especially with taxes taken into account, I wouldn’t pick one firm over another based on a $20k difference — however, I thought it was worth sharing that some firms may be waiting for individual applicants to push back before giving in to the pressure to bump bonuses up.


70k is market for 2 clerkships though. Even if your firm matched market that doesn’t say much if anything about market going up

concur; if I read OP correctly, total QE bonus for a double clerk would be $125K. That $55K more--real money even with taxes, but of course far less than Quinn would have invested in a summer program (at least ~$39K per SA, with a significant washout-before-profitability rate).

My prediction that Quinn starts getting more one-and-dones than Kentucky, and abandons this in a year or two if they don't start seeing clerks stay. (John Quinn is legendarily tight. Their LA office resembles a regional airport.) Or maybe they start implementing a two-year bonus clawback period rather than a one-year clawback.


They’ve already gone to 2 years per their offer letter


Can anyone confirm this? I've tried looking and asking around, but have not been able to find anything.


Confirmed.

jd20132013

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby jd20132013 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:48 am

Lmao what a garbage firm

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:45 am

When are clerkship bonuses usually paid?

BlackAndOrange84

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby BlackAndOrange84 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:When are clerkship bonuses usually paid?


It differs firm to firm. Some will pay as soon as you quit, some not until your first paycheck though they'll often give you some kind of advance against it.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby objctnyrhnr » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:15 pm

Why so much QE hate on tls? Just wondering

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:54 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:Why so much QE hate on tls? Just wondering


Do you not see what's so uniquely awful about a two-year clawback period for clerkship bonuses? Some firms have no period at all, others at most have a one-year period. I get that most people should stick at a firm for longer than one year after clerking, but being effectively locked in for two years by the prospect of having to pay back a huge lump sum is ridiculous.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:08 pm

BlackAndOrange84 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:When are clerkship bonuses usually paid?


It differs firm to firm. Some will pay as soon as you quit, some not until your first paycheck though they'll often give you some kind of advance against it.


Thank you!!

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby albanach » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
objctnyrhnr wrote:Why so much QE hate on tls? Just wondering


Do you not see what's so uniquely awful about a two-year clawback period for clerkship bonuses? Some firms have no period at all, others at most have a one-year period. I get that most people should stick at a firm for longer than one year after clerking, but being effectively locked in for two years by the prospect of having to pay back a huge lump sum is ridiculous.


Two years and you have to pay it all back, or is it pro-rated over the 24 months, i.e. if you leave at eighteen months they get back 1/4?

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:57 pm

Bump—can anyone speak to whether the Quinn 2-year clawback is pro-rated based on your time at the firm? Or do you have to pay back the full amount? If it isn’t pro-rated, that makes it especially tough / risky to use that bonus to, for example, pay off student loans.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:08 pm

Posted in the other clerkship bonus thread, FYI:

I've heard of many firms (not just boutiques) in NY/BOS giving closer to $70-75k for one clerkship, $80-$90k for two clerkships. While firms aren't publicizing it, it seems to be a common trend among larger firms.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Posted in the other clerkship bonus thread, FYI:

I've heard of many firms (not just boutiques) in NY/BOS giving closer to $70-75k for one clerkship, $80-$90k for two clerkships. While firms aren't publicizing it, it seems to be a common trend among larger firms.


I have not heard this. All my coclerks in each of my clerkships received the standard 50/70 except for Susman and Quinn offers. They were able to negotiate end year bonus but not clerkship bonus.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:27 pm

Yeah but when did they interview/sign? It’s my understanding the rise has only been happening in the past several months (and this is from several people who have been offered and accepted bonuses higher than 50/70)

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:29 pm

Also, what do you mean negotiate end of year bonus but not clerkship bonuses? Sort of sounds to me like your co-clerks have been getting higher than 50/70, but that the extra has been built into the “negotiable” year end bonus

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:00 am

Anyone have an idea of how much a $50K bonus is after taxes in CA and/or NY? I used some calculator online and it said $20K (assuming 0-1 federal deductions). I hope that’s not accurate...

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby hlsperson1111 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have an idea of how much a $50K bonus is after taxes in CA and/or NY? I used some calculator online and it said $20K (assuming 0-1 federal deductions). I hope that’s not accurate...


I got 28k and change in CA (with more back at tax time), but that was in 2014.

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Re: Clerkship bonuses going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:04 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have an idea of how much a $50K bonus is after taxes in CA and/or NY? I used some calculator online and it said $20K (assuming 0-1 federal deductions). I hope that’s not accurate...


I got 28k and change in CA (with more back at tax time), but that was in 2014.


Thank you for the point of reference!



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