Let's Talk 3rd Circuit! Forum

[Anonymous User]

anyone know anything about Beetlestone in Philadelphia?

Also interested in this

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Freeman based on the last 8 months or so?

[Anonymous User]

Any info/thoughts on Judge Fuentes in Newark?

[Anonymous User]

Any info/thoughts on Judge Fuentes in Newark?

Has Fuentes moved?

[Anonymous User]

Any info/thoughts on Judge Fuentes in Newark?

Has Fuentes moved?

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Freeman based on the last 8 months or so?

An excellent, thorough Judge. Outside perspective only. Sense that clerks work hard and enjoy the experience.

[Anonymous User]

would anyone be able to give a little profile of the DNJ judges (esp new Biden appointees)

[Anonymous User]

Has there been movement for CA3 judges? Chagares, Krause, Shwartz

[Anonymous User]

Has there been movement for CA3 judges? Chagares, Krause, Shwartz

Chagares and Krause have moved, not sure about Shwartz.

[Anonymous User]

Has there been movement for CA3 judges? Chagares, Krause, Shwartz

Chagares and Krause have moved, not sure about Shwartz.

Do you know which terms?

[Anonymous User]

Has there been movement for CA3 judges? Chagares, Krause, Shwartz

Chagares and Krause have moved, not sure about Shwartz.

Do you know which terms?

Krause is full for 2024-25 and 2025-26.

[Anonymous User]

Has there been movement for CA3 judges? Chagares, Krause, Shwartz

Chagares and Krause have moved, not sure about Shwartz.

Do you know which terms?

Krause is full for 2024-25 and 2025-26.

You can check Oscar for some of these. Shwartz I believe has finished hiring for 2025 (and hasn't posted openings for 2026)

[Anonymous User]

Is Judge D. Brooks Smith competitive/well regarded? What is his network of past clerks like?

[Anonymous User]

Is Judge D. Brooks Smith competitive/well regarded? What is his network of past clerks like?

He's great. Former chief judge of both the WDPA and the Third Circuit, has written a good amount of prominent opinions in the Third Circuit (a lot of big class action opinions in particular), and has served on various judicial committees (he recently joined the Standing Committee on Rules of Practice and Procedure and CJ Roberts recently tapped him to serve on another one). His network of past clerks is also impressive. In addition to a third circuit and WDPA judge, there are a fair number of big law partners and government attorneys. I think he may be a bit less competitive application wise because his chambers are in rural PA. But he's known to be a terrific boss and mentor. I have two friends who continued onto DOJ honors after clerking for him and both said they got in because of Judge Smith's name. I've heard he's a strong advocate in terms of making phone calls for past clerks seeking positions in government, too.

[Anonymous User]

Smith seems to be one of the judges who’s a heavy hitter in the behind-the-scenes court administration stuff even if not super famous. See also e.g. Sarah Vance, Carl Stewart, John Bates.

[Anonymous User]

As a counterpoint, I was not impressed by Smith's performance at oral argument when my judge was on a panel with him last year--just didn't seem particularly sharp. His written work product was always perfectly fine though, so he may just be quiet on the bench.

[Anonymous User]

Smith seems to be one of the judges who’s a heavy hitter in the behind-the-scenes court administration stuff even if not super famous. See also e.g. Sarah Vance, Carl Stewart, John Bates.

Is there any benefit to clerking for a judge who is like this? I mean I’m sure it’s great for the court’s operations, but as a general question, is it as good an experience for a clerk if the judge is busy with non-case things?

I would’ve thought no because it means more work/less feedback for clerks (since it’s not like a judge being chief where their caseload is reduced), but interested in other thoughts.

[Anonymous User]

Smith seems to be one of the judges who’s a heavy hitter in the behind-the-scenes court administration stuff even if not super famous. See also e.g. Sarah Vance, Carl Stewart, John Bates.

Is there any benefit to clerking for a judge who is like this? I mean I’m sure it’s great for the court’s operations, but as a general question, is it as good an experience for a clerk if the judge is busy with non-case things?

I would’ve thought no because it means more work/less feedback for clerks (since it’s not like a judge being chief where their caseload is reduced), but interested in other thoughts.

I think it's great if you're interested in things like federal procedure or what have you. But as a practical matter, almost every judge has their clerks work on 'extracurricular' activities--prepping memos for a moot court competition, writing speeches, etc. That's to say, you'll be working on non-case things at most clerkships. The advantage of working with a judge with these more lofty committee assignments is that your added assignments are of a higher caliber and are more marketable, in my opinion. For example, it's noteworthy in an interview if you were to mention how you worked on a federal rule that impacts practice in every FC across the nation. On the other hand, it's less noteworthy that you may have helped your judge prep for a moot court competition or a speech.

The other big benefit is that the judge has an extended network they wouldn't have absent their membership on these committees. Many judges have close relationships with other judges in their district or circuit. But if they serve on committees of this sort, they get to rub elbows and develop ties with more people outside the circuit (not just judges, but also law professors and partners). Because the people on the committees are typically selected for their expertise, they also tend to be heavy hitters. So for example I've heard Judge Smith has ties with DC judges/practitioners through his committee assignments.

I think the last one is that it's just a good indicator that the judge is of a high caliber and well respected in the industry.

[Anonymous User]

Smith seems to be one of the judges who’s a heavy hitter in the behind-the-scenes court administration stuff even if not super famous. See also e.g. Sarah Vance, Carl Stewart, John Bates.

Is there any benefit to clerking for a judge who is like this? I mean I’m sure it’s great for the court’s operations, but as a general question, is it as good an experience for a clerk if the judge is busy with non-case things?

I would’ve thought no because it means more work/less feedback for clerks (since it’s not like a judge being chief where their caseload is reduced), but interested in other thoughts.

I think it's great if you're interested in things like federal procedure or what have you. But as a practical matter, almost every judge has their clerks work on 'extracurricular' activities--prepping memos for a moot court competition, writing speeches, etc. That's to say, you'll be working on non-case things at most clerkships. The advantage of working with a judge with these more lofty committee assignments is that your added assignments are of a higher caliber and are more marketable, in my opinion. For example, it's noteworthy in an interview if you were to mention how you worked on a federal rule that impacts practice in every FC across the nation. On the other hand, it's less noteworthy that you may have helped your judge prep for a moot court competition or a speech.

The other big benefit is that the judge has an extended network they wouldn't have absent their membership on these committees. Many judges have close relationships with other judges in their district or circuit. But if they serve on committees of this sort, they get to rub elbows and develop ties with more people outside the circuit (not just judges, but also law professors and partners). Because the people on the committees are typically selected for their expertise, they also tend to be heavy hitters. So for example I've heard Judge Smith has ties with DC judges/practitioners through his committee assignments.

I think the last one is that it's just a good indicator that the judge is of a high caliber and well respected in the industry.

One thing to add here - those judges generally have great networks and are quite interpersonally savvy. There are a handful of judges I can name off the top of my head who can help their clerks do almost anything because they know a ton of people and know how to put a phone call in. I think it's a little shortsighted to think the only - or even the most important - career impact of your clerkship is the judge's feedback on your writing. I learned a ton, etc, but not necessarily more than I have from other mentors. By far the biggest difference was two calls that were made on my behalf that helped me get highly competitive jobs.

[Anonymous User]

Smith seems to be one of the judges who’s a heavy hitter in the behind-the-scenes court administration stuff even if not super famous. See also e.g. Sarah Vance, Carl Stewart, John Bates.

Is there any benefit to clerking for a judge who is like this? I mean I’m sure it’s great for the court’s operations, but as a general question, is it as good an experience for a clerk if the judge is busy with non-case things?

I would’ve thought no because it means more work/less feedback for clerks (since it’s not like a judge being chief where their caseload is reduced), but interested in other thoughts.

I think it's great if you're interested in things like federal procedure or what have you. But as a practical matter, almost every judge has their clerks work on 'extracurricular' activities--prepping memos for a moot court competition, writing speeches, etc. That's to say, you'll be working on non-case things at most clerkships. The advantage of working with a judge with these more lofty committee assignments is that your added assignments are of a higher caliber and are more marketable, in my opinion. For example, it's noteworthy in an interview if you were to mention how you worked on a federal rule that impacts practice in every FC across the nation. On the other hand, it's less noteworthy that you may have helped your judge prep for a moot court competition or a speech.

The other big benefit is that the judge has an extended network they wouldn't have absent their membership on these committees. Many judges have close relationships with other judges in their district or circuit. But if they serve on committees of this sort, they get to rub elbows and develop ties with more people outside the circuit (not just judges, but also law professors and partners). Because the people on the committees are typically selected for their expertise, they also tend to be heavy hitters. So for example I've heard Judge Smith has ties with DC judges/practitioners through his committee assignments.

I think the last one is that it's just a good indicator that the judge is of a high caliber and well respected in the industry.

One thing to add here - those judges generally have great networks and are quite interpersonally savvy. There are a handful of judges I can name off the top of my head who can help their clerks do almost anything because they know a ton of people and know how to put a phone call in. I think it's a little shortsighted to think the only - or even the most important - career impact of your clerkship is the judge's feedback on your writing. I learned a ton, etc, but not necessarily more than I have from other mentors. By far the biggest difference was two calls that were made on my behalf that helped me get highly competitive jobs.

Yeah this is the big point. A judge with a wide network who knows how to effectively advocate within that network is not as common as people think on this site. There is a real art to putting in those calls and pulling those strings for former clerks.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody else apply to Chung? Not sure what to expect timing-wise (understanding the app just closed yesterday and she is sitting next week). The position on OSCAR changed to expired and it says she’s not hiring, but I think that’s a function of the application window closing.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody else apply to Chung? Not sure what to expect timing-wise (understanding the app just closed yesterday and she is sitting next week). The position on OSCAR changed to expired and it says she’s not hiring, but I think that’s a function of the application window closing.

I applied but haven’t heard anything.

[Anonymous User]

Any sense of how competitive the Philly judges are? I’m particularly interested in Krause. What kind of applicants is she going for these days?

I do not recommend clerking for Judge Krause. Your experience will not be pleasant and I urge you to look elsewhere.

Just to offer another perspective, I think some of the negative Krause rhetoric is from her early time on the bench. Having spoken to Krause clerks in the current and recent three terms, they described her as a good boss who really cares about getting things correct, while also making sure her clerks have a good experience and go off to do really interesting things (Climenko Fellow right now, state SG offices, big law appellate shops in DC). She has high expectations, but from what I understand not to the point of creating an unpleasant environment. One example, the hours are much lower than they were in her first couple of years on the bench.

The clerks I spoke with all had top grades at top law schools (HYS/M/P). And lastly, I know faculty/DOJ/and other practicing lawyers think very highly of her work product. Take this for what you will, and it's not meant to diminish others who may have had less than a pleasant experience. I think she's a great option for CA3 and living/working in Philadelphia.

This is incorrect. I clerked in the third recently and had a lot of sittings with her. Her clerks seemed terrified of her. They told me some horror stories about her and she seemed extremely mean (Sloviter levels). It would be a nightmare of a clerkship in my opinion.

I do think she's quite intelligent and writes thoughtful, strong opinions. I'd put her in the upper half of judges on that front (not at the very top though). But from what I saw and heard, I wouldn't clerk for her even if doing so guaranteed me a SCOTUS clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

Any sense of how competitive the Philly judges are? I’m particularly interested in Krause. What kind of applicants is she going for these days?

I do not recommend clerking for Judge Krause. Your experience will not be pleasant and I urge you to look elsewhere.

Just to offer another perspective, I think some of the negative Krause rhetoric is from her early time on the bench. Having spoken to Krause clerks in the current and recent three terms, they described her as a good boss who really cares about getting things correct, while also making sure her clerks have a good experience and go off to do really interesting things (Climenko Fellow right now, state SG offices, big law appellate shops in DC). She has high expectations, but from what I understand not to the point of creating an unpleasant environment. One example, the hours are much lower than they were in her first couple of years on the bench.

The clerks I spoke with all had top grades at top law schools (HYS/M/P). And lastly, I know faculty/DOJ/and other practicing lawyers think very highly of her work product. Take this for what you will, and it's not meant to diminish others who may have had less than a pleasant experience. I think she's a great option for CA3 and living/working in Philadelphia.

This is incorrect. I clerked in the third recently and had a lot of sittings with her. Her clerks seemed terrified of her. They told me some horror stories about her and she seemed extremely mean (Sloviter levels). It would be a nightmare of a clerkship in my opinion.

I do think she's quite intelligent and writes thoughtful, strong opinions. I'd put her in the upper half of judges on that front (not at the very top though). But from what I saw and heard, I wouldn't clerk for her even if doing so guaranteed me a SCOTUS clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

Shwartz can be pretty intense, abrasive and demanding. Terrible hours -- 12 hour days are the norm. I'd avoid clerking for her.