Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

How big of a deal is it if I can't take Fed Courts? Just got the news that I'm waitlisted for it next semester as a 3L.

Personally, I'd rather take the class on natural resources law offered at the same time because that seems more interesting, but everyone keeps telling me Fed Courts is imperative for clerking, so I don't know what to think...

[Anonymous User]

I've always heard how important Fed Courts is, too, but I didn't take it and clerked (and got hired after I graduated, so no assumption that I would be taking it). So while I'm sure it's a dealbreaker for some judges, it's not universal.

[Anonymous User]

Does an 8th Circuit clerkship have play in DC and lit boutiques? I'd be coming out after a few years in V20 lit and took the clerkship summer of my 1L but now worried it'll just be a hard yr in midwest with no improvement in exits.

[Anonymous User]

Does an 8th Circuit clerkship have play in DC and lit boutiques? I'd be coming out after a few years in V20 lit and took the clerkship summer of my 1L but now worried it'll just be a hard yr in midwest with no improvement in exits.

Yes, of course. They look for the circuit clerkship. The location is generally of secondary importance. Is a DC Circuit clerkship better than an 8th Circuit clerkship for DC boutiques? Yes, probably for most of them, but the biggest thing of importance is the circuit clerkship itself. Look at top boutique websites in DC, you'll see circuit clerkships from every circuit represented.

[Anonymous User]

Does an 8th Circuit clerkship have play in DC and lit boutiques? I'd be coming out after a few years in V20 lit and took the clerkship summer of my 1L but now worried it'll just be a hard yr in midwest with no improvement in exits.

depends on the judge how much but generally yes. Colloton in particular seems to have a big elite-lit network.

[Anonymous User]

Does an 8th Circuit clerkship have play in DC and lit boutiques? I'd be coming out after a few years in V20 lit and took the clerkship summer of my 1L but now worried it'll just be a hard yr in midwest with no improvement in exits.

depends on the judge how much but generally yes. Colloton in particular seems to have a big elite-lit network.

Yeah Colloton and Stras are seen as a cut above.

[Anonymous User]

How big of a deal is it if I can't take Fed Courts? Just got the news that I'm waitlisted for it next semester as a 3L.

Personally, I'd rather take the class on natural resources law offered at the same time because that seems more interesting, but everyone keeps telling me Fed Courts is imperative for clerking, so I don't know what to think...

Are you at HLS? If so salzman nat resource law is great. Are you actually interested in environmental law as a practice (just wondering since you are taking nat resources law). If you are, fed courts is actually kind of useful since environmental law involves crazy mixes of state and federal overlapping jurisdiction , lots of preemption issues, standing issues etc. Admin law as wel obviously

[Anonymous User]

How big of a deal is it if I can't take Fed Courts? Just got the news that I'm waitlisted for it next semester as a 3L.

Personally, I'd rather take the class on natural resources law offered at the same time because that seems more interesting, but everyone keeps telling me Fed Courts is imperative for clerking, so I don't know what to think...

Are you at HLS? If so salzman nat resource law is great. Are you actually interested in environmental law as a practice (just wondering since you are taking nat resources law). If you are, fed courts is actually kind of useful since environmental law involves crazy mixes of state and federal overlapping jurisdiction , lots of preemption issues, standing issues etc. Admin law as wel obviously

No, but the prof for my class is very well-rated (including by me; I've taken two of his classes). And potentially? I'm more interested in other areas but I could see myself doing something in water law.

Sadly I've been fucked by my school on Admin as well--0/3 on getting into that so far, but I have yet to find out about next semester. Between that and my FC waitlist, I feel like the universe is trying to tell me something lmfao.

[Anonymous User]

I've always heard how important Fed Courts is, too, but I didn't take it and clerked (and got hired after I graduated, so no assumption that I would be taking it). So while I'm sure it's a dealbreaker for some judges, it's not universal.

Honestly, I think a remedies class might be the most important class for clerking. Even more than fed courts.

[Anonymous User]

I've always heard how important Fed Courts is, too, but I didn't take it and clerked (and got hired after I graduated, so no assumption that I would be taking it). So while I'm sure it's a dealbreaker for some judges, it's not universal.

Honestly, I think a remedies class might be the most important class for clerking. Even more than fed courts.

Yes, but it's not universally offered so not taking it is less of a red flag.

[Anonymous User]

Potentially dumb question, but I just wanted to confirm/get clarification. Was recently talking to a fellow co-clerk and he said people have/can negotiate clerkship bonuses. This will be my second clerkship so I will be joining the firm I summered at as a third year plus 70k clerkship bonus. The firm is V10. I always assumed that I had no real negotiating power and the clerkship bonus was a take it or leave it proposition. My co-clerk insists that I should ask for something higher than 70k, particularly since other firms have higher signing bonuses.

It just feels weird to me to try this since I worry this is both a faux pas and also will have me start on the wrong foot. Plus 70k is a lot of money too me and I am very grateful for it.

not the original anon but bumping because I am in the same boat and am curious

[Anonymous User]

Potentially dumb question, but I just wanted to confirm/get clarification. Was recently talking to a fellow co-clerk and he said people have/can negotiate clerkship bonuses. This will be my second clerkship so I will be joining the firm I summered at as a third year plus 70k clerkship bonus. The firm is V10. I always assumed that I had no real negotiating power and the clerkship bonus was a take it or leave it proposition. My co-clerk insists that I should ask for something higher than 70k, particularly since other firms have higher signing bonuses.

It just feels weird to me to try this since I worry this is both a faux pas and also will have me start on the wrong foot. Plus 70k is a lot of money too me and I am very grateful for it.

not the original anon but bumping because I am in the same boat and am curious

My co-clerk negotiated a $50k bonus up to $80k at a V10 firm (only had his one clerkship). It wasn't even that difficult for him to do; he just said he'd received a letter from another firm that offered $80k bonuses to clerks. He didn't even have an offer at that firm. YMMV depending on the firm but I was honestly shocked by how easily he negotiated 60% increase.

[Anonymous User]

Potentially dumb question, but I just wanted to confirm/get clarification. Was recently talking to a fellow co-clerk and he said people have/can negotiate clerkship bonuses. This will be my second clerkship so I will be joining the firm I summered at as a third year plus 70k clerkship bonus. The firm is V10. I always assumed that I had no real negotiating power and the clerkship bonus was a take it or leave it proposition. My co-clerk insists that I should ask for something higher than 70k, particularly since other firms have higher signing bonuses.

It just feels weird to me to try this since I worry this is both a faux pas and also will have me start on the wrong foot. Plus 70k is a lot of money too me and I am very grateful for it.

not the original anon but bumping because I am in the same boat and am curious

My co-clerk negotiated a $50k bonus up to $80k at a V10 firm (only had his one clerkship). It wasn't even that difficult for him to do; he just said he'd received a letter from another firm that offered $80k bonuses to clerks. He didn't even have an offer at that firm. YMMV depending on the firm but I was honestly shocked by how easily he negotiated 60% increase.

Should I really do this, though? Just straight up lie about another offer. This feels like a potential recipe for disaster.

[Anonymous User]

Potentially dumb question, but I just wanted to confirm/get clarification. Was recently talking to a fellow co-clerk and he said people have/can negotiate clerkship bonuses. This will be my second clerkship so I will be joining the firm I summered at as a third year plus 70k clerkship bonus. The firm is V10. I always assumed that I had no real negotiating power and the clerkship bonus was a take it or leave it proposition. My co-clerk insists that I should ask for something higher than 70k, particularly since other firms have higher signing bonuses.

It just feels weird to me to try this since I worry this is both a faux pas and also will have me start on the wrong foot. Plus 70k is a lot of money too me and I am very grateful for it.

not the original anon but bumping because I am in the same boat and am curious

My co-clerk negotiated a $50k bonus up to $80k at a V10 firm (only had his one clerkship). It wasn't even that difficult for him to do; he just said he'd received a letter from another firm that offered $80k bonuses to clerks. He didn't even have an offer at that firm. YMMV depending on the firm but I was honestly shocked by how easily he negotiated 60% increase.

Should I really do this, though? Just straight up lie about another offer. This feels like a potential recipe for disaster.

Doesn't seem like that co-clerk lied. Just said he had information that another firm was willing to offer 80k, not that he had gotten an offer from that firm.

[Anonymous User]

Potentially dumb question, but I just wanted to confirm/get clarification. Was recently talking to a fellow co-clerk and he said people have/can negotiate clerkship bonuses. This will be my second clerkship so I will be joining the firm I summered at as a third year plus 70k clerkship bonus. The firm is V10. I always assumed that I had no real negotiating power and the clerkship bonus was a take it or leave it proposition. My co-clerk insists that I should ask for something higher than 70k, particularly since other firms have higher signing bonuses.

It just feels weird to me to try this since I worry this is both a faux pas and also will have me start on the wrong foot. Plus 70k is a lot of money too me and I am very grateful for it.

not the original anon but bumping because I am in the same boat and am curious

My co-clerk negotiated a $50k bonus up to $80k at a V10 firm (only had his one clerkship). It wasn't even that difficult for him to do; he just said he'd received a letter from another firm that offered $80k bonuses to clerks. He didn't even have an offer at that firm. YMMV depending on the firm but I was honestly shocked by how easily he negotiated 60% increase.

Should I really do this, though? Just straight up lie about another offer. This feels like a potential recipe for disaster.

My co-clerk never lied. He received a generic letter encouraging him to apply to the firm and apparently that was enough.

[Anonymous User]

Potentially dumb question, but I just wanted to confirm/get clarification. Was recently talking to a fellow co-clerk and he said people have/can negotiate clerkship bonuses. This will be my second clerkship so I will be joining the firm I summered at as a third year plus 70k clerkship bonus. The firm is V10. I always assumed that I had no real negotiating power and the clerkship bonus was a take it or leave it proposition. My co-clerk insists that I should ask for something higher than 70k, particularly since other firms have higher signing bonuses.

It just feels weird to me to try this since I worry this is both a faux pas and also will have me start on the wrong foot. Plus 70k is a lot of money too me and I am very grateful for it.

not the original anon but bumping because I am in the same boat and am curious

My co-clerk negotiated a $50k bonus up to $80k at a V10 firm (only had his one clerkship). It wasn't even that difficult for him to do; he just said he'd received a letter from another firm that offered $80k bonuses to clerks. He didn't even have an offer at that firm. YMMV depending on the firm but I was honestly shocked by how easily he negotiated 60% increase.

Should I really do this, though? Just straight up lie about another offer. This feels like a potential recipe for disaster.

My co-clerk never lied. He received a generic letter encouraging him to apply to the firm and apparently that was enough.

Anon who wrote this. My bad, clearly I need to work on my reading skills. I glanced at your post and thought you said he claimed he had an offer when he didn't, but that was not true.

[Anonymous User]

Do judges ever rescind offers after you've already accepted? Bit of a niche situation, but I accepted an offer to clerk for a judge who wanted a year of practice experience, which I would have by the time I start the clerkship. The rub is that I was supposed to be in a lit group (as I told the judge), and got put in a transactional group instead (with no hope of switching for the foreseeable future). A bit nervous about breaking this news to the judge; it would be pretty unusual to have my offer pulled...right??

[Anonymous User]

When clerks are going through OSCAR and pulling apps for the next clerks, do they get emailed every time someone submits or updates an application? Or do they get like a list of names on OSCAR where you can click through, open the packets in a browser, and then close it without getting any kind of notification? If you update your app 4 times, do the clerks get 4 emails? Or, if it's hosted on the browser, is there some kind of queue of how recently people have submitted or updated their apps, so the people who submitted longest ago are in the back? Or is it more something like alphabetical?

[Anonymous User]

How bad would it be if I P/F corporations?

For context, I'm 3L at CNN on a secondary journal with all A/A-s except for 1L fall. I've got an SDNY clerkship (albeit in White Plains) but am still looking for COA. I've got until midnight to decide on P/F, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

Question for applications to pending nominees: is it just a crapshoot? Are there any ways to sell yourself differently for pending nominees than for sitting judges? Is it a good idea to apply to them at all before confirmation?

[Anonymous User]

Current art. I clerk seeking advice. I've been applying to art. III clerkships for a while and haven't had luck yet, was hoping my art. I clerkship could help set off mediocre grades. However, I'm into my current clerkship about a third in and have been disappointed with the lack of mentorship and cold shoulder I get from the judge. I've been thinking of withdrawing my current apps because I'm afraid I'm not going to like clerking again (my judge barely publishes opinions and I haven't gotten much feedback). I've been really trying to like the experience but I just keep running into a wall and feeling frustrated and unsupported.

My clerkship experience has made me start thinking about switching to transactional moving forward. Any advice on this matter?

Lastly, I want to add that my biggest shock was that I made sure to speak to a couple of former clerks about their experience. We didn't go to the same schools and I was hoping to get honest feedback, and I feel disappointed that the clerks embellished everything too much and weren't honest with me. One of the clerks I spoke with the judge has made it clear they didn't like that clerk. They didn't need to tell me to stay away, but I think being honest about lack of support, etc would've been helpful to know before moving across states for this clerkship. I guess I'm just trying to also warn people to take feedback from former clerks with a grain of salt, so you don't end up like me in a non-ideal situation

[Anonymous User]

I don’t think you need to consider switching to transactional simply because you’re not enjoying clerking; if clerking is showing you that you don’t like the actual process of litigation, that’s one thing, but you mention the lack of support/feedback and cold shoulder from your judge rather than nature of the work itself.

But if I’ve misunderstood you and your interest in switching to transactional is separate from your dissatisfaction with this judge, that’s fair; I think plenty of people think they’ll like litigation and change their mind once they get into it. I don’t have great advice about that, except that I think you can certainly spin your experience clerking as showing you what you actually value.

Though I’d couch it as something like clerking showed you how much you valued a more collaborative process and that you wanted a job where everyone’s has the same ultimate goal, or that you wanted to contribute to creating something constructive [if these are even fair characterizations of transactional work], rather than that clerking showed you that you don’t like litigation (with the implication that you want to do transactional not for its own value but simply because it’s not litigation).

Also emphasize any relevant experience you had in/before law school, so that you look like you know what you’re getting into (again, so that you can show you affirmatively like transactional and don’t just hate lit).

(Don’t mean to rehash any generic advice you’ve already received.)

[Anonymous User]

Small question: how should you address an explanatory letter at the front of a writing sample? "To whom it may concern" or "Dear Reader" or...? OSCAR doesn't allow enough writing sample versions for me to have it customized to the specific judge.

[Anonymous User]

Small question: how should you address an explanatory letter at the front of a writing sample? "To whom it may concern" or "Dear Reader" or...? OSCAR doesn't allow enough writing sample versions for me to have it customized to the specific judge.

I would not even include an address. Just start with something like: "This writing sample is a response to a motion for summary judgment that I drafted during my 1L internship for XYZ org." And go from there. It does not have to be customized to each judge.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if the clerks know this, but I don't know where else to ask:

If you have a recommender who's still outstanding, does OSCAR ping them after each application you submit? Or only once? I really don't want to have accidentally put a couple dozen emails into my profs' inboxes, but this just occurred to me.