Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

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Azak
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Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby Azak » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:35 pm

Hi,
I am planning on studying in the US for my JD but recently I came across some disturbing news on the job prospects of international students after they complete their JD they ( I have heard) are not able to enter the job market since firms are not sponsoring for their visa status change..

Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks,
Mansoor Khan

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kwfl
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Postby kwfl » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:14 pm

They can probably get you an H1 but not a Green Card. H1's last no more than six years. After that they loose you. This could be the reason it will be difficult to get hired.

Getting the GC will almost certainly stall in the Labor Certification stage as it will be nearly impossible to prove that it cannot find a US citizen with a JD to take the 150K Salary they are offering for the job they want to put you into.

While there may be a shortage of Harvard trained Lawyers, the US Dept of Labor won't give a crap. All JD degrees are the same as far as they are concerned. For them the firm would have to prove a shortage of lawyers in general. This would be nearly impossible to do.

Azak
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H-1 for 6 Years

Postby Azak » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:22 pm

Thanks for the reply, right now my main concern would be to get the H-1 six years is ample time to see where to go. The thing that is scary or would mean alot of wasted dollars would be if I dont get hired at all. Like no one willing to apply for an H-1 for me.

Do you think getting an H-1 is not the problem but Green card is?

I do understand how difficult GC process can be and it makes sense.

Thanks again for your reply though.

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kwfl
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Postby kwfl » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:31 pm

Do you think getting an H-1 is not the problem but Green card is?


From the firms perspective, yes. They look to hire people they want to keep long term. Currently it takes around 8 years to make partner. Also the H1 category is limited to 65000 per year. They usually run out of them around February. But they can't even apply for yours until you graduate (around June) and pass the bar.

One way around the issue may be if you speak a foreign language and the firm does a lot of business for clients that speak that language. In this case any JD may not be enough. They may be able to make a case to the Labor Dept that the Attorney needs to speak that language to manage the clients.

I am not an immigration attorney (and I fully intend to avoid immigration law like the plague in Law School and my career) so I don't know for sure. Maybe you should talk to one about this.

Azak
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LLM vs JD

Postby Azak » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:11 pm

What would be the benefits of doing a LLM versus a JD?

Would it positively effect my chances of getting a job (H-1 visa) ? I have an LLB from University of Pretoria, South Africa.

For LLM I was looking at Tax Law or International Business??

Thanks Again.

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kwfl
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Postby kwfl » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:27 pm

What would be the benefits of doing a LLM versus a JD?


Advantage: Shorter Time Frame.

Disadvantage: Can't sit bar in all 50 states, Only some (though NY is one of them) will let you sit the bar with an LLM.

Affect on Job Prospects/Visa: None.

gweng
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby gweng » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:38 pm

Azak wrote:Also the H1 category is limited to 65000 per year. They usually run out of them around February.

The 65000 cap is for foreigners with bachelor's degrees only. Those holding advanced degrees including JD fill out another 20000.

The 20000 extras usually run out within a few months, and the closing date varies slightly from year to year, as the demand for high-end US jobs does not fluctuate much relative to the economy. The 65000 quota usually gets filled out within a couple days but could last for more than 6 months when nobody's hiring (like in 2007/8? not sure).

Azak wrote:But they can't even apply for yours until you graduate (around June) and pass the bar.

True. Professional certification is required for H1-B application. But still you have that 1 year OPT...might not be of much help tho.

hurley81
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby hurley81 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:03 am

Would the same visa restrictions apply to Canadians/Mexicans with JDs from US schools? I assumed NAFTA made it easier for professionals from these countries to work in the US...

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Andreeai
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby Andreeai » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:26 pm

Azak wrote:Hi,
I am planning on studying in the US for my JD but recently I came across some disturbing news on the job prospects of international students after they complete their JD they ( I have heard) are not able to enter the job market since firms are not sponsoring for their visa status change..

Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks,
Mansoor Khan


Azak,

First of all, go talk to a lawyer, because many people on this board don't know much nor have been through the h1B process

1. They don't run out of visas in February. They open on April 1 of every year and the spots usually get filled within days. It takes a little longer for the graduate degrees, but not much longer. Therefore, if you find a firm to sponsor you, make sure you have your application ready to be sent a few days prior to April 1st.
2. You CAN get a GC through H1B. After you receive your H1B you automatically become eligible for dual status which means you can apply for a GC through employment. It takes forever ( aprox 5 years) but if you do it a few months after you get your H1B, you will be ok. You are only allowed two H1B visas ( 6 years -3 years each).
3. I don't know if that applies for law school, but for other graduate degrees, you receive a 1 year work permiy after graduation. It is called OPT ( Optional Practical Training). Call the schools you are thinking about attending and ask about it. If so, there are 2 or 3 states ( Delaware and other two I believe) where you can take the bar exam on an F1 visa.

Again, very important, go talk to a lawyer who will tell you exactly what your options are.

HTH

sophie316
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby sophie316 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:58 pm

Firms will sponsor an H1B altho it is always a good idea to try and work at a firm that has offices in your home country that it staffs w at least some US lawyers.

Note that you will have to plan the timing pretty carefully. Work out how long it would be between graduation and getting approved for an H1B and DON'T use more than this amount of OPT before you graduate(ie don't do two paid summers in the US). Once your H1B is approved in the spring you can work until it kicks in that fall but you cannot leave the country in the interim. If you use more than that OPT you would have to leave the US for 6 months or so.
Last edited by sophie316 on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

BetterCallSaul
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby BetterCallSaul » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:07 am

Andreeai wrote:3. I don't know if that applies for law school, but for other graduate degrees, you receive a 1 year work permiy after graduation. It is called OPT ( Optional Practical Training). Call the schools you are thinking about attending and ask about it. If so, there are 2 or 3 states ( Delaware and other two I believe) where you can take the bar exam on an F1 visa.

HTH


OPT is available to LLMs and JDs, but in the current economy not a lot of US firms are giving offers to people who only have OPT--unless they have a foreign branch where they would also want to put you...it is definitely worth consulting with law school career services (any school with a lot of foreign students might give you a clue), foreign students with JDs and LLMs and possibly even an immigration lawyer about this before taking the leap.

(you can always fall in love with and marry a citizen before OCI--I'm not a lawyer yet, so I can give advice like that.)
Last edited by BetterCallSaul on Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ughOSU
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby ughOSU » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:18 am

There is a TON of misinformation in this thread. About 20% of what is being said is true. I will attempt to correct the falsehoods when I have a bit of time.

kgirl
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby kgirl » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:34 am

Are you from Canada? Go with the NAFTA visa or TN-1 visa; it's no H1B. Only thing is, TN-1 must be renewed every year. You can work continuously without the 6 year limit.

creatinganalt
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby creatinganalt » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:09 am

LLM is a waste of money unless you want to work for the UN (i.e. not on a H1-B).

Agree that all of the early posts on this thread are wrong. Worth getting a consultation with an immigration lawyer.

ughOSU
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby ughOSU » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:12 am

So I started trying to correct the false stuff, but I realized 3 things:

1. The stuff kwfl was saying is mostly correct, which brings the percentage of true things said ITT to around 50-60% rather than 20%
2. What you really want to know is whether law firms will be willing to hire you assuming that they would be willing to sponsor you and able to keep you around in H-1B status. None of us know that, but I do know of foreign-born attorneys who have gotten empoyment-based green cards, so it's not impossible.
3. The best way to get answers to your questions are to contact law firms you would be interested in working in, and to consult an immigration attorney. You should do that.

Just fyi, an H-1b is nearly a lock if you get a job. typically around 90% of people with advanced degrees get an H-1B, but in recent years it's been 100% because of the hiring slowdown. the green card process can wait a few years. While you're in H-1B status you can continually renew your H-1B while you pursue a green card so long as your labor certification is filed before you enter your sixth year of h-1b time, but as kwfl said, the Labor Certification is likely to be difficult for an attorney with no experience... the most easily successful ones for attorneys are for Patent Attorneys where a PhD is required, but you should consult an immigration attorney for more info on this. It is by no means impossible to get a green card, but it is also not easy, and is not tied to H-1B status at all.

e: fyi, re: the canadian/mexican question, it is much easier to get working status (specifically, a TN) in the US if you are in one of the professional occupations on this list http://immigration.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=immigration&cdn=newsissues&tm=19&gps=407_403_1115_546&f=00&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&st=24&zu=http%3A//travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1274.html%2315 (Appendix 1603.D.1... "Lawyers" are on the list). However, if your occupation is not on that list, it is about as hard to get working status as it is for any other foreign national in the US. Also, TNs can now be extended for 3 years, and not only 1.

ee: apparently I am incompetent at linking things... you should be able to find the list of professions though on that site.
Last edited by ughOSU on Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:06 am, edited 4 times in total.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby TheBigMediocre » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:21 am

Go consult for Deloitte. They hand out H1-Bs like candy.

jman77
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Re: Job Prospects for students on F-1 visa

Postby jman77 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:47 am

TheBigMediocre wrote:Go consult for Deloitte. They hand out H1-Bs like candy.


+1. This is how I got my H-1B (out of b-school with an MBA). Currently in Year 2 of the first 3-year term.




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