How to handle law school dismissal?

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dna8918
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How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby dna8918 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:16 am

I am a second year law student at Florida Coastal School of Law. I have gotten dismissed after completing 3 semesters at law school. I have recently been diagnosed with a learning disability after consultation with my academic success counselors because I have done well in legal writing classes and anywhere else where time was not an issue. However, on timed exams, I had problem finishing exams. I could not identify earlier that why I was doing bad in substantive law classes. I tried to petition for reinstatement based on my learning disability but got denied. Any suggestions? do I think I should try getting into another school? I don't think if other law schools accept you unless you have a 505 letter? I am not even sure if 505 letter is any good too. Please advise. Thanks!

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MTal
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby MTal » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:32 am

How did you manage to get a reasonable LSAT despite your learning disability?

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playhero
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby playhero » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:12 am

What learning disability and how was it identified? "I don't do well on timed exams" in and of itself is not a learning disability and if that was the sole basses of identification no school is going to take you seriously.

06072010
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby 06072010 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:31 am

Have you seen a qualified mental health person who has diagnosed you? Did they give you any sort of paperwork that you can show the school? Unless there is something going on that you're being evasive about, I don't know why they would deny you reinstatement.

dna8918
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby dna8918 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:00 am

I have reports from two qualified medical professionals. In fact, one referred by a school. Also, the medical professional referred by the school said that she commends me in getting to post graduate level despite my significant visual and speed processing deficits. I know for a fact that I can't finish my exams on time despite knowing the material. In fact, even open book exams, I can't finish the essays despite having the material infront of me.

06072010
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby 06072010 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:18 pm

Is the petition final? Did you present your learning disability to the school? Any other disciplinary problems? I'm not sure why a law school, upon hearing credible evidence of a documented learning disability, would deny an admitted student (in the 2L year) a chance to finish your degree.

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playhero
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby playhero » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:16 pm

medical professional referred by the school

It would seem odd that a school would refer you to someone and then deny your piton after the person they referred identified the issue. One possibility is that you do not have a state recognized disability. This is the case in Californian for people with dysgraphia. The state does not recognize dysgraphia as a valid learning disability and therefor those with dysgraphia do not receive accommodation in any form, from any institution.

My suggestion to this problem would be to start up a correspondence with your old professors. Tell them what has happened, what your problem was, and how you will be able to overcome this issue now that it is identified. Then ask them what they would do in your situation. If you can get enough on your side, they can probably create so much hassle that the administration would let you back in just to get the professors to stop bothering them.

Tred lightly though, some people do not believe in accommodating the disabled especially when that accommodations could be viewed as 'unrealistic in the real world'. Another other issue is many may view the way this was handled as a down right dirty lie. It's very unusual for someone to get through all hs, ug, and 2 years of law school before being diagnosed regardless of how smart they are. Most people with Learning Disabilities know by the time they are in elementary school, sometimes you know even before that, since Learning Disabilities tend to run in families. There is also the issue that you only got diagnosed after you failed out. Most teachers hate aboout hearing a problem so late in the game, they view it as an excuses and nothing more. Therefor you should talk to only those professors who you feel would likely support you in your causes. Most likely these will be the professors who's classes you did well in, had a good relationship with (i.e. you went to lots of office hours or worked with a project outside of just class with), or very liberal ones.

Another possible solution may be directly through the administration. You might be able to just request an appointment with the dean of the law school or someone high up in the admissions/academic probation department. Sit down and explain to them the issue and how you feel you can overcome it now that the issue is known.

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bumpjon
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby bumpjon » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:34 pm

Have you contacted the student disabilities office and ask them for their advice? If all else fails you could contact an attorney specializing in ADA. It seems like if the learning disalbility is a recognized disability and the school could make reasonable accomodations the ADA would apply. However, you won't win over any friends with a law suit so make sure your ducks are in a row and it's the last resort.

dna8918
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby dna8918 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:15 pm

I am making a request for rehearing but I don't see much hope. I am going to another doctor to give them another report since they want me to present them with new evidence. However, they have not doubted the authenticity of my already existent reports. I am an immigrant to this country. I have lived here for about 6 years now. I come from a 3rd world country where people do not even get diagnosed for terminal diseases, let alone learning disability. I transfered my credits to undergrad and went to undergrad in U.S. for two years. I had a business major, where many times I would submit papers or had presentations to do. Also, we always had midterms and finals so exams used to be short and time was never really an issue. Trust me, I did not even know what learning disabilities were before my academic counselors at law school mentioned it to me. They were also preplexed with the disparity of grades between my legal writing classes and substantive law classes. I go to Florida Coastal School of Law which has one of the worst attrition rates in the country. I had a cumulative GPA of 2.00 after my first semester, 1.98 after second and in my 3rd semester I got to 1.89 and got dismissed. The minimum required GPA is 2.00. The only thing that works against me is that I was at 1.98 after 1st year and couldn't improve it next semester. There was another reason for my poor performance in my third semester which is that one of my friends at law school committed suicide because he was also dismissed from law school.

School's student govt. is negotiating with the school to ease the grading curve. School admits about 600 people every year and then dismiss alot of them in first year. therefore, they have a high bar passage rate. I would appreciate if someone can pass on contact information for any attorney who could give advice on this issue.

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bumpjon
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby bumpjon » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:26 pm


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sirhitch
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby sirhitch » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:32 pm

Are you aware of the difficulties you will face upon applying for admission to the Florida Bar or any other state bar?

snewcrash
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby snewcrash » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:41 pm

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Last edited by snewcrash on Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SecondTimeAround
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby SecondTimeAround » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:30 am

dna8918, unfortunately, you've come to about the worst place to get sympathetic advice: your fellow law school students. Generally, they'll view you as roadkill and will be glad to have you out of the running for a job (yes, it's a lovely, humanizing profession). You seem bright, articulate, and determined. With your origins, you've probably seen and dealt with things that most of us never will. In this country, as I'm sure you've discovered, one way to get things done is to keep pushing (sensibly, given the situation) -- eventually, seemingly intractable obstacles yield. If you want to be a lawyer, you'll find a way. And I'm sure that despite your grades and scores, and perhaps because of the difficulty you're encountering now, you'll be a good one.

I don't know what your learning disability is, but here's an article on people -- including a famous attorney -- who overcame dyslexia: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... /index.htm. Best wishes to you.

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waytofailself
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby waytofailself » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:28 am

You can look back to all of the fair education act legislation. If you do have a documented learning disability and have been prescribed modifications for examination procedures by disability services at your school, they are not allowed to dismiss you based on your condition if you have not received those testing modifications. They're breaking a few federal laws.

I wonder if this has something to do with FC being a for profit school.

06072010
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby 06072010 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:36 am

Advice on what issue dood? You failed to meet the minimum GPA, you get kicked out. Just like I wouldn't want a pilot flying me with a vision waiver, I wouldn't want you to be my attorney with a learning disability law. Find another career.


Relax, dooder. A better analogy is not knowing you needed glasses, getting them and finally being able to see. Florida Coastal has a brutal curve. The OP's GPA could in some part be due to the strength of other people in their classes.

Having a learning disability can be totally destructive in law school. I know several people from our class who have been diagnosed with learning disorders after the first semester. I have no doubt they'll overcome their problems and be successful. Also, strict time-pressured exams are the worst way to test students. The whole thing is set up to be easy on the professors. It's not an aptitude test, it a race. I've seen two different answers to a law school test (C+ and an A)that I could see no substantive distinctions in. Except for some stylistic choices and some bolded words here and there - they were practically identical.

To the OP's original question - at least you're getting a rehearing. Try and present your evidence in the best possible way. Meet with your legal writing instructors and see if they'll go to bat for you.

Some of these law schools and their policies designed to game the rankings while retaining such steep tuitions is damn near criminal.

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playhero
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby playhero » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:16 pm

If you do have a documented learning disability and have been prescribed modifications for examination procedures by disability services at your school, they are not allowed to dismiss you based on your condition if you have not received those testing modifications.

Assuming he didn't get dismissed before they prescribed modification and that his disability qualifies under the state law.


Just like I wouldn't want a pilot flying me with a vision waiver, I wouldn't want you to be my attorney with a learning disability law.

This is illogical as a vision is nessecary to a fighter pilots ability. If time is the only issue at hand here then he could just take a light case load and still be as good as anyone without.

dna8918
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby dna8918 » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:13 pm

SecondTimeAround wrote:dna8918, unfortunately, you've come to about the worst place to get sympathetic advice: your fellow law school students. Generally, they'll view you as roadkill and will be glad to have you out of the running for a job (yes, it's a lovely, humanizing profession). You seem bright, articulate, and determined. With your origins, you've probably seen and dealt with things that most of us never will. In this country, as I'm sure you've discovered, one way to get things done is to keep pushing (sensibly, given the situation) -- eventually, seemingly intractable obstacles yield. If you want to be a lawyer, you'll find a way. And I'm sure that despite your grades and scores, and perhaps because of the difficulty you're encountering now, you'll be a good one.

I don't know what your learning disability is, but here's an article on people -- including a famous attorney -- who overcame dyslexia: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... /index.htm. Best wishes to you.


Thank yo so much for your support. I now want JD degree more than anything else even if I have to wait for a two year period before reapplying to ABA schools. I am also looking into ABA 505 rule and if I could get 505 letter from FCSL, there might be few schools who would accept me without having to wait me for two years. However, I am submitting my petition to consider rehearing on monday. I will keep you all posted. What I am surprised about is that apparently the committee which reviewed my petition did not know that you actually can get extra time on bar exams as well if you have a learning disability. And among the very few reasons they gave me for the denial of petition, it was one of them.

anyways, thanks to those who were supportive and also to those who were not since their comments makes my conviction stronger than anything else.

SecondTimeAround
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby SecondTimeAround » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:30 pm

You're welcome, dna8918. Incidentally, here's another article that, if it doesn't exactly help you, might give you some comfort and hope: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=465381.

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aguyingeorgia
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby aguyingeorgia » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:45 pm

I don't know much about your disability.

But I do know that it is possible to get through a lot of life and never realize that you have one. I know someone who had dyslexia and had almost perfect grades. But then again, no one knew the amount of time she spent outside of class on her work, and how she struggled desperately with certain kinds of tests.

I don't know that your future holds, but if it is you dream, go for it.
Our opinions here are just that, our opinions.

Unfortuntately, some people in this thread are letting their inner asshole shine outside of law school. Those are the same people that cause others to roll their eyes and mutter dark things in classes.

Good luck to you.

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luckynumber8s
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby luckynumber8s » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:20 am

dood, I agree with the other asshole who didn't want a lawyer with a learning disability. I had a TA with LD and I wanted to kill her. Not fair to students or your future clients.

buffalo-best
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby buffalo-best » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:55 am

I've gotta be honest, if you're not good at timed exams, how do you expect to sucessfully advocate for a client in court? That shows that you cant really think FAST, whats gonna happen on stuff like objection responses?

That said, 3 semesters of law debt with no JD is harsh, I hope for your sake that you get back in regardless of my concerns as to your ability to practice. Given this disability and if you earn your JD look into something like bankruptcy or family law where there isnt a ton of court time.

best of luck

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aguyingeorgia
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby aguyingeorgia » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:27 am

I didn't say anything about my personal wants. I merely said if anyone wants anything, they should go for it.

I guarantee you there is a place for this person somewhere in the legal world, and I personally don't think any of us has the right to tell anyone to give up their dreams.

SecondTimeAround
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby SecondTimeAround » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:12 am

Code: Select all

dood, I agree with the other asshole who didn't want a lawyer with a learning disability. I had a TA with LD and I wanted to kill her. Not fair to students or your future clients.


Then you'd never want to hire David Boies, the premier litigator of his time (IBM, Microsoft, Napster, etc.). He has dyslexia.

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bumpjon
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby bumpjon » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:25 pm

buffalo-best wrote:I've gotta be honest, if you're not good at timed exams, how do you expect to sucessfully advocate for a client in court?


Assuming that your arguement is true, which I seriously doubt, it would only prove to be an obstacle for a litigator. The vast majority of lawyers do not "advocate for a client in court." There are plenty of transactional attorneys, in-house counsel, corporate legal departments, etc. most of whom will never see a court room.

buffalo-best wrote:That shows that you cant really think FAST, whats gonna happen on stuff like objection responses?


I think is shows that he can't really read fast. If so, the advice about taking a lighter case load will help out a lot. The objection responses, assuming he'll be litigating, can be handled by advanced prep. Good attorneys know what will be objected to and what will not be. He could, as all attorneys do, prepare his responses in advance.

dna8918, keep on fighting; I think you have a good case on appeal. If not you may have a legit ADA claim.
Last edited by bumpjon on Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dssinc
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Re: How to handle law school dismissal?

Postby dssinc » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:19 am

Then you'd never want to hire David Boies, the premier litigator of his time (IBM, Microsoft, Napster, etc.). He has dyslexia.


Couldn't help noticing that you didn't include Gore in that client list! Oh well, we (sadly) can't win 'em all.




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