Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

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xjv177
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Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:07 pm

Does anyone know what the cutoff is? I'm at 3.86; 2 more Ps than DS's (rest H's). Do I have a shot with one semester left?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:09 pm

xjv177 wrote:Does anyone know what the cutoff is? I'm at 3.86; 2 more Ps than DS's (rest H's). Do I have a shot with one semester left?


Did you weight it separately by year? Rumor is that is how they calculate latin honors.

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:11 pm

Thanks for the response. That's interesting. I weighted it by credits. You think they just average each year?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:12 pm

xjv177 wrote:Thanks for the response. That's interesting. I weighted it by credits. You think they just average each year?


I have nothing to base that claim on other than rumor on this board. Does that calculation change anything? Also, please do us a favor and come back and report what honors you get with what GPA when you find out.

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:13 pm

I'm not sure. I have to do the math. (I didn't go to law school to do math!). But I still wouldn't know without knowing a baseline for what i need to hit.

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:13 pm

I will come back and report when I find out.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:15 pm

xjv177 wrote:I'm not sure. I have to do the math. (I didn't go to law school to do math!). But I still wouldn't know without knowing a baseline for what i need to hit.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=185503#p5544604

there has been speculation in other threads that basically zero'd in on ~ 3.5 for cum laude and ~ 3.9 for magna.


If I had to guess based on absolutely no evidence, i'd think that a 3.9 is slightly high. I wouldn't be surprised if the cut off is right where you are at.

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:17 pm

Thanks thats helpful, I saw that. Just wondered if people have more information. Am I right that the stated is standard top 10% and we are just trying to figure out what you would need for that on average?

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:19 pm

xjv177 wrote:Thanks thats helpful, I saw that. Just wondered if people have more information. Am I right that the stated is standard top 10% and we are just trying to figure out what you would need for that on average?


That's my understanding, at least.

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:20 pm

Thanks. Not sure why I care about this, but I've been told to care so i suppose i sort of do now.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:26 pm

xjv177 wrote:Thanks. Not sure why I care about this, but I've been told to care so i suppose i sort of do now.


Sorry man, guess no one knows for sure. It would be helpful if some people who graduated in the past couple of years would be able to give us some data points.

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:30 pm

Well ideally Martha Minow would give us some data points herself. I don't see the point in this being opaque.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:33 pm

xjv177 wrote:Well ideally Martha Minow would give us some data points herself. I don't see the point in this being opaque.


Me either. I agree completely.

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:40 pm

Also you've been helpful. I'm happy to answer any questions about clerkships, etc that you might have as a 2L.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:41 pm

xjv177 wrote:Also you've been helpful. I'm happy to answer any questions about clerkships, etc that you might have as a 2L.


Thanks, I appreciate that. I'll pm you.

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:46 pm

Ok do so. But I don't really use TLS that much. This is kind of a sui genesis post, so tonight is best to reach me.

GertrudePerkins
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby GertrudePerkins » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:57 pm

ph14 wrote:
xjv177 wrote:Thanks for the response. That's interesting. I weighted it by credits. You think they just average each year?


I have nothing to base that claim on other than rumor on this board. Does that calculation change anything? Also, please do us a favor and come back and report what honors you get with what GPA when you find out.

According to the Handbook of Academic Policies (LinkRemoved), they do indeed calculate your GPA for each individual year and then average them, apparently without weighting each year by the number of credits:
2. Latin honors at graduation will be based on the average of the three annual grade point averages (GPA). GPA will be calculated for each year of study and then averaged across the three years to determine Latin honors.
It's not even entirely clear whether credits are taken into account in the calculation of each yearly GPA, though it would seem very weird not to. (Would one semester of LRW count just as much as Torts?)

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:00 am

GertrudePerkins wrote:
ph14 wrote:
xjv177 wrote:Thanks for the response. That's interesting. I weighted it by credits. You think they just average each year?


I have nothing to base that claim on other than rumor on this board. Does that calculation change anything? Also, please do us a favor and come back and report what honors you get with what GPA when you find out.

According to the Handbook of Academic Policies (LinkRemoved), they do indeed calculate your GPA for each individual year and then average them, apparently without weighting each year by the number of credits:
2. Latin honors at graduation will be based on the average of the three annual grade point averages (GPA). GPA will be calculated for each year of study and then averaged across the three years to determine Latin honors.
It's not even entirely clear whether credits are taken into account in the calculation of each yearly GPA, though it would seem very weird not to. (Would one semester of LRW count just as much as Torts?)


I'd be quite surprised if they did not weigh credits in computing the yearly GPA.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:00 am

GertrudePerkins wrote:
ph14 wrote:
xjv177 wrote:Thanks for the response. That's interesting. I weighted it by credits. You think they just average each year?


I have nothing to base that claim on other than rumor on this board. Does that calculation change anything? Also, please do us a favor and come back and report what honors you get with what GPA when you find out.

According to the Handbook of Academic Policies (LinkRemoved), they do indeed calculate your GPA for each individual year and then average them, apparently without weighting each year by the number of credits:
2. Latin honors at graduation will be based on the average of the three annual grade point averages (GPA). GPA will be calculated for each year of study and then averaged across the three years to determine Latin honors.
It's not even entirely clear whether credits are taken into account in the calculation of each yearly GPA, though it would seem very weird not to. (Would one semester of LRW count just as much as Torts?)


Grade Point Average would seem to suggest they weight credits, right? Do winter term classes count? I'd assume so.

xjv177
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby xjv177 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:01 am

ph14 wrote:
GertrudePerkins wrote:
ph14 wrote:
xjv177 wrote:Thanks for the response. That's interesting. I weighted it by credits. You think they just average each year?


I have nothing to base that claim on other than rumor on this board. Does that calculation change anything? Also, please do us a favor and come back and report what honors you get with what GPA when you find out.

According to the Handbook of Academic Policies (LinkRemoved), they do indeed calculate your GPA for each individual year and then average them, apparently without weighting each year by the number of credits:
2. Latin honors at graduation will be based on the average of the three annual grade point averages (GPA). GPA will be calculated for each year of study and then averaged across the three years to determine Latin honors.
It's not even entirely clear whether credits are taken into account in the calculation of each yearly GPA, though it would seem very weird not to. (Would one semester of LRW count just as much as Torts?)


Grade Point Average would seem to suggest they weight credits, right? Do winter term classes count? I'd assume so.


Yes they must.

GertrudePerkins
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby GertrudePerkins » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:10 am

Sorry, you guys are totally right. It seems I became momentarily illiterate there:
3. (a) The annual GPA will be calculated by assigning the following values to grades: Honors: 4; Pass: 3; Low Pass: 2; Fail: 0. Dean’s Scholar Prize awards will carry an additional point.

(b) For all students, in calculating annual GPAs, each grade, including the Dean's Scholar Prize, is weighted in accordance with the number of credits earned in the course.

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:13 am

GertrudePerkins wrote:Sorry, you guys are totally right. It seems I became momentarily illiterate there:
3. (a) The annual GPA will be calculated by assigning the following values to grades: Honors: 4; Pass: 3; Low Pass: 2; Fail: 0. Dean’s Scholar Prize awards will carry an additional point.

(b) For all students, in calculating annual GPAs, each grade, including the Dean's Scholar Prize, is weighted in accordance with the number of credits earned in the course.


No worries. All this stuff is hard to get information on. Thanks for finding that!

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ph14
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby ph14 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:53 am

So it seems like its a bit easier to get magna as a transfer? They only have to keep it up for 2 years and can pick their classes the whole way through.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby somewhatwayward » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:40 pm

ph14 wrote:So it seems like its a bit easier to get magna as a transfer? They only have to keep it up for 2 years and can pick their classes the whole way through.


Yeah, it is, the same way it is easier to get honors at any T14 if you transfer because there is an easier curve 2L/3L at most schools; you can take seminars which have an even easier curve; there are LLMs in your classes that pad the curve; you aren't forced to take classes that don't interest you; native students often stop trying as hard because they have SAs; etc. That's why the argument that transfers are actually better at law school because they always get honors at their new school does not hold any weight IMO.

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quiver
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Re: Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude

Postby quiver » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:37 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
ph14 wrote:So it seems like its a bit easier to get magna as a transfer? They only have to keep it up for 2 years and can pick their classes the whole way through.


Yeah, it is, the same way it is easier to get honors at any T14 if you transfer because there is an easier curve 2L/3L at most schools; you can take seminars which have an even easier curve; there are LLMs in your classes that pad the curve; you aren't forced to take classes that don't interest you; native students often stop trying as hard because they have SAs; etc. That's why the argument that transfers are actually better at law school because they always get honors at their new school does not hold any weight IMO.
I think this overstates things a bit. Your point about how native students stop trying because they have SAs lined up seems really dumb to me; it's pretty well accepted knowledge that, at top schools, transfers generally do better at OCI than native students. If anything there will be a higher percentage of transfers with SAs lined up than native students and therefore transfers, on a whole, would be more likely to stop trying. Your points about the easier curve and being able to pick classes is true but I'm not sure how this makes a difference at schools that calculate honors on a yearly basis. In that case, transfers would have the same shot at honors as everyone else for 2L and 3L year and the fact that more transfers get honors than native students seems pretty relevant. If a school calculates honors like HLS (averaging the three years), then I think it would be easier for transfers to get honors.




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