LEEWS?

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GBPbb
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LEEWS?

Postby GBPbb » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:06 pm

I am familiar with what the program is, and I know some people take it as a 0L for prep, however I am about 4 weeks into my 1L year and am thinking about going to the next life LEEWS class. Is it typical to take it during the semester? Or is it really geared toward 0L summer...

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I.P. Daly
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby I.P. Daly » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:21 pm

GBPbb wrote:I am familiar with what the program is, and I know some people take it as a 0L for prep, however I am about 4 weeks into my 1L year and am thinking about going to the next life LEEWS class. Is it typical to take it during the semester? Or is it really geared toward 0L summer...


I'd recommend trying to get the program for free at your library or through interlibrary loan. I'm not sure it is worth the cost.

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GBPbb
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby GBPbb » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:34 pm

I.P. Daly wrote:
GBPbb wrote:I am familiar with what the program is, and I know some people take it as a 0L for prep, however I am about 4 weeks into my 1L year and am thinking about going to the next life LEEWS class. Is it typical to take it during the semester? Or is it really geared toward 0L summer...


I'd recommend trying to get the program for free at your library or through interlibrary loan. I'm not sure it is worth the cost.


I'll look into that... thanks. Any idea when one is recommended/supposed to take LEEWS?

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I.P. Daly
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby I.P. Daly » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:41 pm

LEEWS focuses on exams, but it provides information about case briefing, note taking, and class preparation as well. So, it's probably best to check it out early in the semester. It's definitely not just summer prep material.

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GBPbb
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby GBPbb » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:42 pm

I.P. Daly wrote:LEEWS focuses on exams, but it provides information about case briefing, note taking, and class preparation as well. So, it's probably best to check it out early in the semester. It's definitely not just summer prep material.


Perfect... Thanks.

Lyonsoccer87
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby Lyonsoccer87 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:24 am

I did it the summer before law school and I think it was one of the main reasons for my success 1L. I would recommend doing the program to anyone. In fact, if you spent your first week of class doing Leews rather than paying attention in class, I think it would be a better use of time. If you don't know how to write an exam, your endless hours of studying may not amount to anything. I also found the program useful in identifying what was important to study and what was a waste of time (aka extensive briefing)

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby LazinessPerSe » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:28 am

It's a great starting point. Make sure you tailor your responses to each professor. This means asking if they will review a practice problem you wrote out in office hours, or if they have a preferred style. If they want you to write it in haiku format, you will write all of your responses in haiku format.

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ZombiesAhead
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby ZombiesAhead » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:31 pm

People who swear by LEEWS - are you saying it's helpful for a conceptual understanding of what is needed for an exam? Or are you actually doing his entire conflict-pairing outlining method on exams?

I find it really confusing to rigidly try to fit everything into premises/counter-premises when elements of one premise overlap with others (think Assault and Battery) or when working with policy arguments (which LEEWS says are just premises).

For example, I appreciate the UBE method to the extent that I learned the underlying lesson of "think in terms of elements and match them up to the facts".

I imagine I could practice with the method enough to internalize it but not sure if it's a good use of my time when I've already absorbed his main conceptual points...

Lyonsoccer87
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby Lyonsoccer87 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:48 am

ZombiesAhead wrote:People who swear by LEEWS - are you saying it's helpful for a conceptual understanding of what is needed for an exam? Or are you actually doing his entire conflict-pairing outlining method on exams?

I find it really confusing to rigidly try to fit everything into premises/counter-premises when elements of one premise overlap with others (think Assault and Battery) or when working with policy arguments (which LEEWS says are just premises).

For example, I appreciate the UBE method to the extent that I learned the underlying lesson of "think in terms of elements and match them up to the facts".

I imagine I could practice with the method enough to internalize it but not sure if it's a good use of my time when I've already absorbed his main conceptual points...


The premise counter premise advice from LEEWS was the most helpful for me. Before every exam, I outlined according to premise v. counter premise. I also made sure that i wasn't just arguing facts in my outline because you should have enough practice to just argue the facts when you're writing your exam. If your a 1L i would do the practice problems in the back of the primer (takes 15 min each) and then after you have enough law knowledge start practicing LEEWS method on practice exams (i used this site for prac exams:http://lawmedia.pepperdine.edu/exam/examlookup.php ).

The subjects where leews method was harder to apply were contracts and prolly civ pro, but even for those classes, I used a slightly modified approach. I actually followed his rules so rigidly that i underlined the BLL and did not introduce any issues like he says and profs at my school made notes about how they liked my organization.

My basic advice is to take a lot of practice exams using his method and to listen to the tapes and read his practice hypos/answers carefully. I was able finish in the top 5 of my class and transfer and owe most of my success to using the program. Also, you have to know the law very well and study a shitload but i know plenty who did that and couldn't write an exam if there life depended on it. gluck

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GBPbb
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby GBPbb » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:00 am

Lyonsoccer87 wrote:
ZombiesAhead wrote:People who swear by LEEWS - are you saying it's helpful for a conceptual understanding of what is needed for an exam? Or are you actually doing his entire conflict-pairing outlining method on exams?

I find it really confusing to rigidly try to fit everything into premises/counter-premises when elements of one premise overlap with others (think Assault and Battery) or when working with policy arguments (which LEEWS says are just premises).

For example, I appreciate the UBE method to the extent that I learned the underlying lesson of "think in terms of elements and match them up to the facts".

I imagine I could practice with the method enough to internalize it but not sure if it's a good use of my time when I've already absorbed his main conceptual points...


The premise counter premise advice from LEEWS was the most helpful for me. Before every exam, I outlined according to premise v. counter premise. I also made sure that i wasn't just arguing facts in my outline because you should have enough practice to just argue the facts when you're writing your exam. If your a 1L i would do the practice problems in the back of the primer (takes 15 min each) and then after you have enough law knowledge start practicing LEEWS method on practice exams (i used this site for prac exams:http://lawmedia.pepperdine.edu/exam/examlookup.php ).

The subjects where leews method was harder to apply were contracts and prolly civ pro, but even for those classes, I used a slightly modified approach. I actually followed his rules so rigidly that i underlined the BLL and did not introduce any issues like he says and profs at my school made notes about how they liked my organization.

My basic advice is to take a lot of practice exams using his method and to listen to the tapes and read his practice hypos/answers carefully. I was able finish in the top 5 of my class and transfer and owe most of my success to using the program. Also, you have to know the law very well and study a shitload but i know plenty who did that and couldn't write an exam if there life depended on it. gluck


Lyonsoccer87, thanks for the advice. I ordered it for this year, I'm a 1L (this is our 4th week of class). Is this the recommended time to be practicing the LEEWS method/doing the program?

EDIT: Also, that link doesn't work. It won't give me access :(
And at what point in the semester would you think someone should have "enough law knowledge to practice the LEEWS method"?
Last edited by GBPbb on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lyonsoccer87
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby Lyonsoccer87 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:21 am

This isn't the ideal time but you'll be fine if you start it soon. I would recommend listening to the tapes over a weekend or two. You will have a lot of work keeping up with class and listening to the tapes but it's 100% doable. After you listen to the tapes, just look at the examples in the back of the primer (you don't need to read anything else in the primer and the tapes tell you not to). At this time of the year or after another week you should know enough to start practicing leews on prac tests or on even E&E problems. As for the website, idk why its not working I was on it yest but its acting up today. Just try it tom and if it doesn't work just google or search on this forum there are plenty of exam archives. also just use the back of E&Es for full prac tests and answers in ur school library.

You really have to study a shitload at this time of year doing both LEEWS, outlining, and beg to take prac tests if you wanna finish at the very top of your class. Just try and find things to motivate you and know that after the year is over it will be worth it or at least you won't feel bad cause you did everything possible to do well. gluck. PM me if you want anymore advice. I'll send you my outlines and i might even have a prac test i did i can't remember.

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sandwiches5000
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby sandwiches5000 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:46 pm

I highly recommend using LEEWS but only if you FOLLOW UP WITH IT by applying what you learned and reviewing it again before finals.

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jgc02a
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby jgc02a » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:33 pm

LEEWS SUX. if you do want to try it, then just buy the primer off of ebay or amazon.

placencia
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby placencia » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:52 am

LEEWS is excellent. The best thing about it is that it gets you to focus on the only thing that matters in your first year of law school - the final exam. I bought it and did it at home during my 0L summer, then again during my fall semester, and a brief review of certain parts before the exam. It's good for people who want practice, and even better for those who have no idea what to expect.

The number one thing you need to know which should convince you beyond a doubt to do it is that for a large percentage of people, it makes them better at exams. I have applied very little of the premises beyond my 1L year, because the exams and grading are different for the classes I have had, but considering 1L is all that matter anyway, it's invaluable. There is not a better way to spend 8-12 hours of your time, I guarantee it. Worst case scenario, you get nothing from it. Best case scenario, for a hundred bucks or so, you get a keen grasp on what to expect going into your first year of law school and the exam which will likely count for 100% of your grade. It has a good chance of making you better, and a slim chance of not helping at all. There is no downside...what would you do with those few hours otherwise, play fantasy football?

spiritniffler189
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby spiritniffler189 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:20 pm

sandwiches5000 wrote:I highly recommend using LEEWS but only if you FOLLOW UP WITH IT by applying what you learned and reviewing it again before finals.


You mean applying it with daily reading? I did LEEWS and besides the exercises in the back, am finding it difficult to apply LEEWS strategies to each case.

sangr
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby sangr » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:35 pm

wtf?

there's a big initial question I have about LEEWS

I'm reviewing step one with audio

he says DON'T delve into the facts or legal inquiries when u first read the questions and just find the partys and their respective objective. IE the constitutional law.

he literally alots 20 seconds and says that's all we should need:

ok, even in 20 or so seconds I don't even have time to really do any meaningful skimming in an ocean of text. I doubt it's cuz I'm an abnormally slow reader... what am I missing? how the heck can we find some of th conflicting parties with clarity in a text with 4-5 paragraphs in 15 seconds?

KeyedUp
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Re: LEEWS?

Postby KeyedUp » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:00 pm

keep in mind that those guidelines are from the perspective of someone taking the exam, i.e. after you've practiced the techniques and have worked all the kinks out. going forward, you'll glean from the program that it's important to first get the techniques down THEN worry about timing.

personally, after attending the live program a few weeks ago, my perspective has changed 180 degrees. Miller put everything in the proper context. best money/time investment i've made so far in my few months in 1L.




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