First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

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blendpose
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First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby blendpose » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:17 pm

After reading numerous "How to Succeed in Law School" threads, GTM book, and the LEEWS primer, I think I may have figured out law school already -not the material of course, but how the system works.

Lets review my first week of Torts.

We went over battery, assault, and false imprisonment. However, each case assigned out of the casebook led to a definition, and an exception to the rule (or a rule), and the need for "further" clarification. Unfortunately, (or fortunately since we're all graded on a curve) many of my fellow classmates seemed lost, confused, and dazed.

So here I am:

I'm editing and creating an outline weekly for each class. I just completed part of the Intentional Torts section with the previous topics mentioned.. but I'm noticing the web of lies growing... the exception, the rules, the narrow and wide scope of each rule, restatement, and definition. But.... isn't that the point?

There are no black and white definitions, there are no set elements. We have elements, but only as a guide..
Is the point to make us write not a "yes" or "no" this happened, but rather, "well we might have..." and then pour into all the nuances of the law?

I'm not sure why I'm ranting this early into law school... but is this right? Am I right? There are no answers! Exam time shouldn't I, or we, highlight all of the possible explanations and eventually, need be, come down on a side?


Anyone else thinking the same thing?
brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrb (LEEWS)

kaiser
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby kaiser » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:20 pm

This is what we call "overthinking", a condition that can easily be cured with a big dose of "chill the hell out"

And just FYI, I want to make a point out of your observation that your classmates seem lost and confused. That is step one toward failure on your part. Step one in any competition: The moment you underestimate your competition is the moment they have beaten you. I'd tread carefully in how you assess your classmates, and how your understanding stacks up to theirs.

blendpose
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby blendpose » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:38 pm

kaiser wrote:This is what we call "overthinking", a condition that can easily be cured with a big dose of "chill the hell out"

And just FYI, I want to make a point out of your observation that your classmates seem lost and confused. That is step one toward failure on your part. Step one in any competition: The moment you underestimate your competition is the moment they have beaten you. I'd tread carefully in how you assess your classmates, and how your understanding stacks up to theirs.



I completely agree with your comment about classmates and competition. You're right on. I don't think I'm better than them. BUT, what I was trying to say-which I will attempt more clearly- is that exam time the teacher doesn't want a basic definition of something, right? The P may have very will hit D, but don't we need to exam all of the nuances in order to accumulate more points? That was my focus.

How can you tell me to "chill out," but tell me to "not underestimate [my] competition?" If I chilled out, then wouldn't I be, in essence, "underestimating [my] competition" due to a lack of preparation? -grabs bowl of popcorn and continues to refresh page for a witty response-

kaiser
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby kaiser » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:44 pm

blendpose wrote:
kaiser wrote:This is what we call "overthinking", a condition that can easily be cured with a big dose of "chill the hell out"

And just FYI, I want to make a point out of your observation that your classmates seem lost and confused. That is step one toward failure on your part. Step one in any competition: The moment you underestimate your competition is the moment they have beaten you. I'd tread carefully in how you assess your classmates, and how your understanding stacks up to theirs.



I completely agree with your comment about classmates and competition. You're right on. I don't think I'm better than them. BUT, what I was trying to say-which I will attempt more clearly- is that exam time the teacher doesn't want a basic definition of something, right? The P may have very will hit D, but don't we need to exam all of the nuances in order to accumulate more points? That was my focus.

How can you tell me to "chill out," but tell me to "not underestimate [my] competition?" If I chilled out, then wouldn't I be, in essence, "underestimating [my] competition" due to a lack of preparation? -grabs bowl of popcorn and continue to refresh page for a witty response-


I won't try to be witty, just honest. WHen it comes to exams, you first need to spot the issue (i.e. so and so facts could very well be a battery). You would then go through the elements of battery, and examine which are met and which are ambiguous. You spend very little time on the things that are well-established. Don't force in ambiguity that isn't there (remember that a good legal analysis is one where you can say with certainty that something DOES NOT have to be discussed). You then delve deeper into the ambiguous elements. Show why its ambiguous by fleshing out the issue. Then just pick which way you think is more plausible so that you can continue with your analysis (though you can of course explain what would happen had you gone the other way, though it may not be necessary). The "answer" you pick is of little importance. Picking up on the ambiguities and analyzing them cogently is where you win points. So you don't say "yes" or "no", but delve more into the nuances since there are so many different approaches, assuming your professor wants you to do this.
Last edited by kaiser on Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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beach_terror
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby beach_terror » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:46 pm

blendpose wrote: BUT, what I was trying to say-which I will attempt more clearly- is that exam time the teacher doesn't want a basic definition of something, right? The P may have very will hit D, but don't we need to exam all of the nuances in order to accumulate more points? That was my focus.

There aren't a lot of nuances when someone gets hit.

blendpose
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby blendpose » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:46 pm

kaiser wrote:
blendpose wrote:
kaiser wrote:This is what we call "overthinking", a condition that can easily be cured with a big dose of "chill the hell out"

And just FYI, I want to make a point out of your observation that your classmates seem lost and confused. That is step one toward failure on your part. Step one in any competition: The moment you underestimate your competition is the moment they have beaten you. I'd tread carefully in how you assess your classmates, and how your understanding stacks up to theirs.



I completely agree with your comment about classmates and competition. You're right on. I don't think I'm better than them. BUT, what I was trying to say-which I will attempt more clearly- is that exam time the teacher doesn't want a basic definition of something, right? The P may have very will hit D, but don't we need to exam all of the nuances in order to accumulate more points? That was my focus.

How can you tell me to "chill out," but tell me to "not underestimate [my] competition?" If I chilled out, then wouldn't I be, in essence, "underestimating [my] competition" due to a lack of preparation? -grabs bowl of popcorn and continue to refresh page for a witty response-


I won't try to be witty, just honest. WHen it comes to exams, you first need to spot the issue (i.e. so and so facts could very well be a battery). You would then go through the elements of battery, and examine which are met and which are ambiguous. You spend very little time on the things that are well-established. Don't force in ambiguity that isn't there (remember that a good legal analysis is one where you can say with certainty that something DOES NOT have to be discussed). You then delve deeper into the ambiguous elements. Show why its ambiguous by fleshing out the issue. Then just pick which way you think is more plausible so that you can continue with your analysis (though you can of course explain what would happen had you gone the other way, though it may not be necessary). The "answer" you pick is of little importance. Picking up on the ambiguities and analyzing them cogently is where you win points.



Thanks! That was what I was looking for!

blendpose
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby blendpose » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:49 pm

beach_terror wrote:
blendpose wrote: BUT, what I was trying to say-which I will attempt more clearly- is that exam time the teacher doesn't want a basic definition of something, right? The P may have very will hit D, but don't we need to exam all of the nuances in order to accumulate more points? That was my focus.

There aren't a lot of nuances when someone gets hit.


True, I gave a poor example.

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romothesavior
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:20 pm

This has to be the most insufferable post I have read on TLS in a week. I feel bad for your classmates. Go have a beer and chillax, bro.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:23 pm

romothesavior wrote:This has to be the most insufferable post I have read on TLS in a week. I feel bad for your classmates. Go have a beer and chillax, bro.


I think there is someone from Wake Forest who would really get along with him/her

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worldtraveler
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby worldtraveler » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:39 pm

blendpose wrote:
kaiser wrote:This is what we call "overthinking", a condition that can easily be cured with a big dose of "chill the hell out"

And just FYI, I want to make a point out of your observation that your classmates seem lost and confused. That is step one toward failure on your part. Step one in any competition: The moment you underestimate your competition is the moment they have beaten you. I'd tread carefully in how you assess your classmates, and how your understanding stacks up to theirs.



I completely agree with your comment about classmates and competition. You're right on. I don't think I'm better than them. BUT, what I was trying to say-which I will attempt more clearly- is that exam time the teacher doesn't want a basic definition of something, right? The P may have very will hit D, but don't we need to exam all of the nuances in order to accumulate more points? That was my focus.

How can you tell me to "chill out," but tell me to "not underestimate [my] competition?" If I chilled out, then wouldn't I be, in essence, "underestimating [my] competition" due to a lack of preparation? -grabs bowl of popcorn and continues to refresh page for a witty response-


What is this I don't even...

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Grizz
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby Grizz » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:40 pm

blendpose wrote:After reading numerous "How to Succeed in Law School" threads, GTM book, and the LEEWS primer, I think I may have figured out law school already -not the material of course, but how the system works.

Lets review my first week of Torts.

We went over battery, assault, and false imprisonment. However, each case assigned out of the casebook led to a definition, and an exception to the rule (or a rule), and the need for "further" clarification. Unfortunately, (or fortunately since we're all graded on a curve) many of my fellow classmates seemed lost, confused, and dazed.

So here I am:

I'm editing and creating an outline weekly for each class. I just completed part of the Intentional Torts section with the previous topics mentioned.. but I'm noticing the web of lies growing... the exception, the rules, the narrow and wide scope of each rule, restatement, and definition. But.... isn't that the point?

There are no black and white definitions, there are no set elements. We have elements, but only as a guide..
Is the point to make us write not a "yes" or "no" this happened, but rather, "well we might have..." and then pour into all the nuances of the law?

I'm not sure why I'm ranting this early into law school... but is this right? Am I right? There are no answers! Exam time shouldn't I, or we, highlight all of the possible explanations and eventually, need be, come down on a side?


Anyone else thinking the same thing?
brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrb (LEEWS)

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:47 pm

blendpose wrote:After reading numerous "How to Succeed in Law School" threads, GTM book, and the LEEWS primer, I think I may have figured out law school already -not the material of course, but how the system works.

Lets review my first week of Torts.

We went over battery, assault, and false imprisonment. However, each case assigned out of the casebook led to a definition, and an exception to the rule (or a rule), and the need for "further" clarification. Unfortunately, (or fortunately since we're all graded on a curve) many of my fellow classmates seemed lost, confused, and dazed.

So here I am:

I'm editing and creating an outline weekly for each class. I just completed part of the Intentional Torts section with the previous topics mentioned.. but I'm noticing the web of lies growing... the exception, the rules, the narrow and wide scope of each rule, restatement, and definition. But.... isn't that the point?

There are no black and white definitions, there are no set elements. We have elements, but only as a guide..
Is the point to make us write not a "yes" or "no" this happened, but rather, "well we might have..." and then pour into all the nuances of the law?

I'm not sure why I'm ranting this early into law school... but is this right? Am I right? There are no answers! Exam time shouldn't I, or we, highlight all of the possible explanations and eventually, need be, come down on a side?


Anyone else thinking the same thing?
brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrb (LEEWS)


I am that guy that everyone rolls there eyes at and has a bookbag on wheels


FTFY

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beach_terror
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby beach_terror » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:47 pm

In before OP is below median

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ilovesf
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby ilovesf » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:49 pm

it's been one week, stop thinking you know everything.

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Naked Dude
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby Naked Dude » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:25 pm

this thread is full of fail because now, I hear every word I read in the voice of Wentworth Miller. Stop it...stop it...Naked Dude angry....will throw you in a blender...brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr

NotMyRealName09
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:19 pm

Your post not only made me feel that you are one of the wonderful many who will be slapped in the face with an unexpected poor grade, but I actually hope it happens.

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Naked Dude
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby Naked Dude » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:25 pm

I felt overconfident on the first day and it put the fear of god in me. Overconfidence is always, always, always an incredibly potent fatal flaw. It's not so much that I think the universe will put me in my place, but that I fear I'll become complacent and not try as hard. I just started 1L, but I think it's way too early to call anything. If I were you I'd get my hands on some brazilian rosewood and give it a few dozen good hits to appease the universe.

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beach_terror
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby beach_terror » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:28 pm

How much the months of your first semester matter:

August: 0%
September: 0%
October: 0%
November: 0%
December: 100%

HTH, and don't try to have epiphanies before then. If you do, they're going to be forced and lead you down the wrong path. For now, you need to remain open-minded and not shut any doors. You know nothing, so don't pretend to.

shoeshine
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby shoeshine » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:30 pm

It it good or bad that I have done the same if not more prep than the op and feel the exact opposite after my first couple days?

No confidence here. Just fear and self-loathing.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:43 pm

shoeshine wrote:It it good or bad that I have done the same if not more prep than the op and feel the exact opposite after my first couple days?

No confidence here. Just fear and self-loathing.


I flip flop by the hour between the two extremes

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kalvano
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby kalvano » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:44 pm

Wait, you covered battery, assault, and false imprisonment in a week?

Send your professor over to my school. That was about 7 weeks for us.

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ilovesf
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby ilovesf » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:47 pm

kalvano wrote:Wait, you covered battery, assault, and false imprisonment in a week?

Send your professor over to my school. That was about 7 weeks for us.


I was also confused by that, we're spending a bit more than a week on battery.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:47 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
shoeshine wrote:It it good or bad that I have done the same if not more prep than the op and feel the exact opposite after my first couple days?

No confidence here. Just fear and self-loathing.


I flip flop by the hour between the two extremes

Fear before I get cold called, then self-loathing after prof informs me that I could not be more wrong if I tried.

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ilovesf
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby ilovesf » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:48 pm

MrPapagiorgio wrote:Fear before I get cold called, then self-loathing after prof informs me that I could not be more wrong if I tried.


At least you tried, some people just say they don't know.

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Naked Dude
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Re: First Week of Torts (Reflection thereof)

Postby Naked Dude » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:52 pm

ilovesf wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:Fear before I get cold called, then self-loathing after prof informs me that I could not be more wrong if I tried.


At least you tried, some people just say they don't know.


I feel like you should only say I don't know after a giving a good faith effort to answer the questions. If you didn't read you should at least have the casebook in front of you or be able to get a canned brief relatively quickly. I know there are some professors who, if they suspect you didn't read, will grill you progressively harder to get you to admit that you didn't read, but when you're covering shit like battery, there's no excuse not to try-who hasn't seen at least a few law & order episodes and can intuit something semi-reasonable?




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