2L Grades - Do they matter?

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Butters23
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2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby Butters23 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:05 am

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Last edited by Butters23 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:11 am

Butters23 wrote:Assuming you have a summer job at a big firm, and plan on working at that firm full time after you graduate, do your 2L grades even matter? Can you just ride the curve, or is there any real reason to work hard for good grades?


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20160810
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby 20160810 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:15 am

2L grades don't matter as much as 1L grades, but if your firm rescinds your offer or if you get no-offered next summer, you'll be fucked if you slack off too much.

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Adjudicator
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby Adjudicator » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:19 am

My golden rule is to always do the best you can, because you never know what will happen. You want to keep as many options open as you can.

When you do your best, you never have to have any regrets.

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A'nold
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby A'nold » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:21 am

I hope so, unless I suck, then I hope not.

awesomepossum
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby awesomepossum » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:24 am

My firm asked for updated transcripts during the summer. I don't know what the result of horrific grades would have been, but I definitely felt more comfortable handing my transcript in with grades reasonably on par with what I had before.

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20160810
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby 20160810 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:30 am

A'nold wrote:I hope so, unless I suck, then I hope not.

I think as a transfer they're pretty sure to matter.

bigben
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby bigben » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:41 am

A few firms are rumored to care about your 2L grades. You can count these firms on one hand. Even these firms probably wouldn't no-offer you without a significant reason in addition to a drop in grades. I guess that's because your summer work is much, much more useful and relevant to the firm in considering whether to extend a permanent offer.

So, it is very likely that your 2L grades won't matter at all. Yes, it is possible that you could get no-offered and your higher 2L grades could increase your chances of getting back into a large firm through a clerkship or whatever. That scenario seems pretty unlikely though.

Supposedly grades might matter if you are looking to lateral from one large firm to another within a few years.

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underdawg
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby underdawg » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:39 am

my firm did not ask for my 2L grades. still you don't want to totally slack off. never know where your career will end up, and whether the gatekeepers care about your grades. and they matter for clerkships obviously.

revolution724
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby revolution724 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:26 am

Butters23 wrote:Assuming you have a summer job at a big firm, and plan on working at that firm full time after you graduate, do your 2L grades even matter?


Big assumption. I'm trying to boost my grades this year because I'm not working at a firm, and some public interest fellowship applications ask for them.

Pip
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby Pip » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:43 pm

Depends on what school you are going to... Yale they wouldn't matter but go to any lower end school and they will matter... even if you have a summer job with the firm you want to work at. Remember that just because the firm is taking you for the summer it doesn't guarantee they will take you for the next summer or for a real job when you leave. Firms are trying you out and if you don't fit their mold you will be looking for work later and then your grades might matter quite a bit.

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nealric
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby nealric » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:59 pm

They aren't as important as 1L grades for biglaw, but there is no sense slacking. Grades will matter if you want to do a clerkship or lateral. Some firms will also no-offer people who have experienced a precipitous drop in grades from 1L to 2L year.

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underdawg
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby underdawg » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:27 pm

nealric wrote:They aren't as important as 1L grades for biglaw, but there is no sense slacking. Grades will matter if you want to do a clerkship or lateral. Some firms will also no-offer people who have experienced a precipitous drop in grades from 1L to 2L year.

have you actually ever heard of this happening? like someone asked, oh why was i no offered and the firm goes, your grades suck dude?

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leobowski
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby leobowski » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:14 am

underdawg wrote:have you actually ever heard of this happening? like someone asked, oh why was i no offered and the firm goes, your grades suck dude?



I know someone at the state attorney general's office who got no-offered because he dropped a few ranks.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:24 am

My summer firm never asked for a transcript after OCI. I could have bombed my 2L & 3L years and it would not have made a difference. I always found that odd.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:40 am

underdawg wrote:
nealric wrote:They aren't as important as 1L grades for biglaw, but there is no sense slacking. Grades will matter if you want to do a clerkship or lateral. Some firms will also no-offer people who have experienced a precipitous drop in grades from 1L to 2L year.

have you actually ever heard of this happening? like someone asked, oh why was i no offered and the firm goes, your grades suck dude?


Scuttlebutt is that if you didn't blow them away with your work over the summer, they will reference your grades, and it can make a difference. Really good grades won't salvage terrible work, and poor grades won't sink you if your work was outstanding. But yes, I know of people who were told that their lower 2L grades affected the decision.

Edit: Even firms that don't ask for a transcript normally ask for a resume with an updated GPA - but there are obviously exceptions.

Also, I have a feeling (though I can't substantiate it) that litigation departments of firms will care more. If they want people who will be competitive clerkship candidates, the 2L grades obviously matter. Some firms really want their lit people to clerk, some don't.

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thuggishruggishbone
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby thuggishruggishbone » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:06 am

They do matter, especially for lateraling. Also, if your school has a part-time program, they can matter as much as 1L grades for getting a SA position (a lot of the summer associate positions ask for either 2D or 3E students).

solidsnake
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby solidsnake » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:17 am

They matter if you want those three magic words in italics next to your school name on your attorney bio page.

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nealric
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby nealric » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:18 am

have you actually ever heard of this happening? like someone asked, oh why was i no offered and the firm goes, your grades suck dude?



Yes, in fact. Just getting OK grades (B+ type grades) won't raise any eyebrows, but if your grades depart significantly downward there could be problems.

I have talked to hiring partners who have specifically mentioned someone not getting an offer (in part) due to his grades. It was a deciding factor for someone on the bubble.

I also know someone who pulled a sub 3.0 his 2L year, was given an offer, but given a specific GPA target he must hit (3.4) to retain his offer.

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rayiner
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby rayiner » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:22 am

nealric wrote:
have you actually ever heard of this happening? like someone asked, oh why was i no offered and the firm goes, your grades suck dude?



Yes, in fact. Just getting OK grades (B+ type grades) won't raise any eyebrows, but if your grades depart significantly downward there could be problems.

I have talked to hiring partners who have specifically mentioned someone not getting an offer (in part) due to his grades. It was a deciding factor for someone on the bubble.

I also know someone who pulled a sub 3.0 his 2L year, was given an offer, but given a specific GPA target he must hit (3.4) to retain his offer.


That's craziness! 3.0 -> 3.4?

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TCScrutinizer
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Re: 2L Grades - Do they matter?

Postby TCScrutinizer » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:21 am

Adjudicator wrote:My golden rule is to always do the best you can, because you never know what will happen. You want to keep as many options open as you can.

When you do your best, you never have to have any regrets.


TITCR




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