Columbia 2013 Forum

[imchuckbass58]

what are the policies for listing grades, gpa, and estimated class rank on our resumes. Many jobs ask for this information to be listed. For example, one government job I want to apply to today asks for "class rank, or if unavailable estimated position."
does cls have any policies in this regard.

If they ask for it to be listed, you might want to list it. However, CLS strongly discourages listing these (except named honors) for EIP.

why do they discourage it?

Because it allows employers to pre-screen. They don't want students walking in with the interviewer pre-biased against them because of their grades.

As for your original question, I would probably but N/A. If you had a full year you could estimate based on median = 3.27, Stone = 3.41 = top 30%, but the distribution after only one semester will be wider and hard to estimate.

[of Benito Cereno]

what are the policies for listing grades, gpa, and estimated class rank on our resumes. Many jobs ask for this information to be listed. For example, one government job I want to apply to today asks for "class rank, or if unavailable estimated position."
does cls have any policies in this regard.

If they ask for it to be listed, you might want to list it. However, CLS strongly discourages listing these (except named honors) for EIP.

why do they discourage it?

Because it allows employers to pre-screen. They don't want students walking in with the interviewer pre-biased against them because of their grades.

As for your original question, I would probably but N/A. If you had a full year you could estimate based on median = 3.27, Stone = 3.41 = top 30%, but the distribution after only one semester will be wider and hard to estimate.

Yea, it didn't make much sense to me that everyone was assuming that if 15% were say 3.55 and higher at the end of the year then only 15% would be 3.55 and higher after one semester. I imagine top 15% is quite a bit higher (say 3.65) after only one semester.

[viking138]

Has anyone else heard that certain 1L electives grade on the 1L curve and others don't? Specifically, Strauss' Regulatory State class (1L curve) vs. International Law and IP Law. Anyone know anything about this?

[CG614]

Has anyone else heard that certain 1L electives grade on the 1L curve and others don't? Specifically, Strauss' Regulatory State class (1L curve) vs. International Law and IP Law. Anyone know anything about this?

The link on Lawnet says the 1L curve doesn't apply to the elective, but not sure if the professors know that. ha

--LinkRemoved--

[viking138]

Has anyone else heard that certain 1L electives grade on the 1L curve and others don't? Specifically, Strauss' Regulatory State class (1L curve) vs. International Law and IP Law. Anyone know anything about this?

The link on Lawnet says the 1L curve doesn't apply to the elective, but not sure if the professors know that. ha

--LinkRemoved--

Haha yeah because I had a 3L say that he applied the 1L curve...really hope they're incorrect!

[Sogui]

Anyone with Liebman for Property desperately trying to figure out how they are going outline "the first half" of class?

I have no idea what he wants us to see in half these cases.

Liebman: Ok let's turn to the parking garage case, who thinks the court reached the right decision, so-and-so?
So-and-so: Yea I think this came out right
Liebman: What about you Jane Doe?
Jane Doe: Yea me too
Liebman: Well we can't a very good dialogue with you two agreeing, let's move on to the next case...

[Hattori Hanzo]

Anyone with Liebman for Property desperately trying to figure out how they are going outline "the first half" of class?

I have no idea what he wants us to see in half these cases.

Liebman: Ok let's turn to the parking garage case, who thinks the court reached the right decision, so-and-so?
So-and-so: Yea I think this came out right
Liebman: What about you Jane Doe?
Jane Doe: Yea me too
Liebman: Well we can't a very good dialogue with you two agreeing, let's move on to the next case...

I LOL'd

[CG614]

Anyone know EIP dates for this August?

[imchuckbass58]

Anyone know EIP dates for this August?

August 11th, 12th, 16th and 17th - it's on the career services website (along with an entire page dedicated to EIP). Also set aside the next couple of weeks after that for callbacks (hopefully).

[CG614]

Anyone know EIP dates for this August?

August 11th, 12th, 16th and 17th - it's on the career services website (along with an entire page dedicated to EIP). Also set aside the next couple of weeks after that for callbacks (hopefully).

Thanks, I was on their site and didn't see it. I check it out again. Is it weird that I am looking forward to EIP after having to do all of the application stuff for 1L summer? ha

[imchuckbass58]

Anyone know EIP dates for this August?

August 11th, 12th, 16th and 17th - it's on the career services website (along with an entire page dedicated to EIP). Also set aside the next couple of weeks after that for callbacks (hopefully).

Thanks, I was on their site and didn't see it. I check it out again. Is it weird that I am looking forward to EIP after having to do all of the application stuff for 1L summer? ha

Nothing wrong with being excited about getting a job.

Also, if they haven't already, career services will have a session in April where they talk about how EIP works, and hand out a packet detailing firm-by-firm results for last year (bids, screeners, CBs, CBs accepted, offers and acceptances for each firm). They'll also have a book they keep at career services that shows the % of offerees who were Kent/Stone at each firm. These are really useful in planning your bids. Also definitely come on TLS and ask the 2Ls/3Ls here.

[CG614]

Anyone know EIP dates for this August?

August 11th, 12th, 16th and 17th - it's on the career services website (along with an entire page dedicated to EIP). Also set aside the next couple of weeks after that for callbacks (hopefully).

Thanks, I was on their site and didn't see it. I check it out again. Is it weird that I am looking forward to EIP after having to do all of the application stuff for 1L summer? ha

Nothing wrong with being excited about getting a job.

Also, if they haven't already, career services will have a session in April where they talk about how EIP works, and hand out a packet detailing firm-by-firm results for last year (bids, screeners, CBs, CBs accepted, offers and acceptances for each firm). They'll also have a book they keep at career services that shows the % of offerees who were Kent/Stone at each firm. These are really useful in planning your bids. Also definitely come on TLS and ask the 2Ls/3Ls here.

I was more referring to the structure of the job search itself, but getting a job will be cool too! ha

[1800calturk]

Anyone with Liebman for Property desperately trying to figure out how they are going outline "the first half" of class?

I have no idea what he wants us to see in half these cases.

Liebman: Ok let's turn to the parking garage case, who thinks the court reached the right decision, so-and-so?
So-and-so: Yea I think this came out right
Liebman: What about you Jane Doe?
Jane Doe: Yea me too
Liebman: Well we can't a very good dialogue with you two agreeing, let's move on to the next case...

lol too funny.

[Sogui]

Anyone with Liebman for Property desperately trying to figure out how they are going outline "the first half" of class?

I have no idea what he wants us to see in half these cases.

Liebman: Ok let's turn to the parking garage case, who thinks the court reached the right decision, so-and-so?
So-and-so: Yea I think this came out right
Liebman: What about you Jane Doe?
Jane Doe: Yea me too
Liebman: Well we can't a very good dialogue with you two agreeing, let's move on to the next case...

lol too funny.

I thought it was funny too until I went to the TA review session and read the model answers. The TA's (who all did very well in his class) admitted straight off the bat that the exam grading would be arbitrary and unpredictable. The model answers, seemed to focus less on an insightful exploration of the major issues within the question and more about "how many words can I fit into 3hr 15m exam?"

Just for fun I measured the length of the answers, and assuming at least 5 minutes of reading per question, you would have to be typing at 50+ wpm continuously for three hours to be one of these "models". It seems the mark of a good exam for Liebman is taking a shotgun approach to the law, just blast everything and hope you hit the right stuff. I'm pretty depressed about that exam now.

[Series70]

^ His namesake in Crim Law has me feeling pretty down, too. Looking at his old exams on the g-drive, each 3.5 hr. exam has 2 questions: the first involves 15-page fact pattern with a dozen or so characters, and the second is more theoretical, written in incoherent language that barely resembles English. An example from 2002:

"Then, use the goals and principles you have identified as a basis for determining the
seriousness, or not, of the acts, circumstances, results and mental states that are fairly
attributable to ZM based on the evidence described above, and for determining whether the
seriousness of ZM’s behavior warrants conviction of serious homicide-related offenses and
imposition of the death penalty. And/or use the goals and principles you have identified as
a basis for determining the strength, or weakness, of the justification those acts,
circumstances, results and mental states establish for convicting ZM of serious homiciderelated
offenses and giving him the death penalty. (Your are NOT being asked to identify
actual particular crimes that ZM may or may not have committed, but rather to explain
whether or not the goals and principles of American criminal law justify treating the acts,
circumstances, results and mental states attributable to ZM as serious, criminal and homicidal
behavior and as warranting the law’s most severe punishment.)"

WTF?!?

[Sogui]

^ His namesake in Crim Law has me feeling pretty down, too. Looking at his old exams on the g-drive, each 3.5 hr. exam has 2 questions: the first involves 15-page fact pattern with a dozen or so characters, and the second is more theoretical, written in incoherent language that barely resembles English. An example from 2002:

"Then, use the goals and principles you have identified as a basis for determining the
seriousness, or not, of the acts, circumstances, results and mental states that are fairly
attributable to ZM based on the evidence described above, and for determining whether the
seriousness of ZM’s behavior warrants conviction of serious homicide-related offenses and
imposition of the death penalty. And/or use the goals and principles you have identified as
a basis for determining the strength, or weakness, of the justification those acts,
circumstances, results and mental states establish for convicting ZM of serious homiciderelated
offenses and giving him the death penalty. (Your are NOT being asked to identify
actual particular crimes that ZM may or may not have committed, but rather to explain
whether or not the goals and principles of American criminal law justify treating the acts,
circumstances, results and mental states attributable to ZM as serious, criminal and homicidal
behavior and as warranting the law’s most severe punishment.)"

WTF?!?

Wow that's one hell of a policy question.

[of Benito Cereno]

are all grades in?

[UnitarySpace]

no, bro

[KG_CalGuy]

They are for Lynch's section

[swc65]

are all grades in?

NO!! If I were a professor, I would knock these grades out in two weeks then take a four week vacay instead of taking six weeks. This is so frustrating. I want to be able to put a bidlist together!

[chinny123]

are all grades in?

NO!! If I were a professor, I would knock these grades out in two weeks then take a four week vacay instead of taking six weeks. This is so frustrating. I want to be able to put a bidlist together!

I'm pretty sure thats what Liebman (Prop) did. Last final, first grade out.

[CG614]

Any guesses on when Law Review calls will start?

[amidea]

I would also like to know at what point I need to face the inevitable.

[MTC87]

I would also like to know at what point I need to face the inevitable.

Now would be a good time.

[kwais]

any of you guys remember when they sent you your section assignment or schedules or any of that fun stuff?