Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

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urmaster123
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Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby urmaster123 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:41 pm

How tough is it to get a job at a law firm from U.D.C. school of Law (http://www.law.udc.edu/)? Is it really just meant to educate public interest lawyers?

Its the only public law school in Washington D.C. and has some great faculty. Chime off.

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HJO
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby HJO » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:54 pm

I do not know much about the school itself but DC is a very hard market to crack. Not only do many T14 grads from all over want to go to DC to practice, in the immediate area you have Gerogetown, George Washington, William and Mary, American, UVA, etc. I would say the employment out look would be very grim for UDC people.

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TTT-LS
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby TTT-LS » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:51 pm

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pearalegal
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby Pearalegal » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Is it really just meant to educate public interest lawyers?


Yes. A thousand times, yes.

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jchoggan
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby jchoggan » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:24 pm

Ha! Well, since we're all in agreement... next topic, please :)

Anonymous User
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:18 pm

So it reall is that that bad for U.D.C. law students... so does anyone what kind of careers they can have in Public Interests? Guesstimates on salaries? Anything besides "big law"!? This is the only law school that I might be able to go to because of the fact that is so cheap ($3,675 per semester).

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HJO
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby HJO » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:So it reall is that that bad for U.D.C. law students... so does anyone what kind of careers they can have in Public Interests? Guesstimates on salaries? Anything besides "big law"!? This is the only law school that I might be able to go to because of the fact that is so cheap ($3,675 per semester).


I have never heard of anyone going into public interest for the money.

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General Tso
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby General Tso » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:50 am

why the anonymous post?

Anonymous User
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:04 am

It will be very difficult to get any lawyer job out of UDC. The school's reputation is terrible in DC and nonexistent anywhere else. Public interest jobs in DC are very, very competitive to get, even ones that pay $40K, even in a thriving economy. Even small law firms with similar salaries will shy away from hiring UDC grads because there are more than enough students from the other DC schools to fill those slots and the reputation of UDC is so bad. Basically, I wouldn't recommend UDC to anyone.

urmaster123
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby urmaster123 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:19 am

So then where do UDC graduates gain employment? I know that many law schools publish misleading data, but UDC can't mislead using its entire data. This is the law school that I wish to attend sometime in the near future, as I can easily afford it ($8,000 a year). Surely there have to be some kind of employment for an UDC graduate? I have searched the school website and have found no statistics. Its purpose if of course quite a bit more loftier than Harvard's + Yale's: educate minorities in the law in order for them to give back to their legally underrepresented communities. More In depth insights needed!

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ggocat
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby ggocat » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:34 am

For class of 2005 (a good economy), about 13% reported working in public interest + government, and a total of about 25% of the 1L class either (1) failed 1L or (2) was unemployed 9 months after graduation---another 5% employment status was unknown. Apparently no one worked for a NLJ 250 firm.
http://www.law.com/img/nlj/charts/composite.pdf

What are your numbers? Maybe you can get a scholarship to another school?

urmaster123
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby urmaster123 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:39 pm

Stats:
UG Degree ~ Info. Sys.
LSAT ~ 160
GPA ~ 3.2 - 3.3

URM: Middle Eastern/South Asian
Okay softs -- President of a Religious Club (MSA)
Community Organizer -- Helped organize food drives, clothing drives over summer breaks

Money is a issue --> I am planning on taking out very few loans

Chance me (if you want) for:
U.D.C. Clarke School of Law (http://www.law.udc.edu/)
University of Baltimore Law School (http://law.ubalt.edu/index.cfm)
American Law School (http://www.law.american.edu/)
Georgetown
GW Law
George Mason Law
University of Maryland Law
UVA Law

Anonymous User
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:43 pm

Master, first of all, none of those schools are going to give you the kind of LSAT admissions boost you'd get if you were black, native american, or hispanic. So you're not really URM in the law school admissions sense. I know people of similar ethnic backgrounds who've applied to law school and they were basically treated like white applicants, with a few exceptions.

Some schools in the deep south may treat you differently and offer you admission where they wouldn't have if you were white. You may also qualify for a minority scholarship or even a full ride at some deep south tier 2/3/4 schools. For example, I know a guy with a 158 LSAT who was Middle Eastern and got a full minority scholarship at Loyola New Orleans. Another guy with an LSAT slightly higher than yours who was Asian got a full ride at Alabama. I can't say that you'll have the same outcome as those applicants this cycle, but it may be worth looking into if you would consider attending school in the south.

Secondly, historically black law schools will probably view you more favorably than a white applicant. For example, I know white applicants with good numbers who were rejected from Howard, but people of your ethnicity who got in, or were offerred substantial scholarships from that school. If Howard is a school you'd want to go to, I'd recommend applying and tailoring your app materials to communicate why you want to go there over any other school. Howard would be an infinitely better choice than UDC.

GW, Gtown, and UVA are probably out. Apply if you want to, but those are extreme longshots. For Mason, UMD, and AMU, you probably won't get into those either, but you might have a small chance. Certainly, you will get no scholarship money at those schools if you do get in.

I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't get into Balt and UDC. Probably some conditional scholarship offers at those schools based on first year law grades too. However, I cannot recommend attending UDC based on the information you've given so far. If you plan on working for someone else out of school, UDC is going to be a very difficult barrier against that. Most UDC grads cannot even find decent work in a good economy, much less now. Balt is really only a good idea if you're an MD resident, and even then represents a significant risk based on the every rising cost of tuition there and dearth of jobs in MD for law graduates.

If taking out loans is an issue, can you get a job with your BA and work for a few years to save some money? Would you be able to go to law school part-time and work full-time to defray some of the cost? Would you be willing to retake the LSAT to get a higher score and a chance at more scholarship money?

One more thing: be careful with conditional scholarship offers. A lot of students lose their conditional scholarships after 1L due to harsh grading and the curve in law school. If that happens to you after you take a conditional deal, you will definitely be taking out lots of student loans to finish your JD.

Anonymous User
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:51 pm

LS employment stats are self reported and not audited by any third party or regulatory agency. Any school can say whatever it wants. Jobs in DC are hard to get because everyone wants to work there. Competition for decent jobs (not just biglaw) is keen even among grads of top law schools. UDC is at the very bottom of the barrel as a law school and a university in general. The school hasn't been around that long and employers don't trust it. A lot of UDC grads will be working as paralegals, temps, or doing quasi-legal or non-legal work.

In the current economic climate, there is basically no hope for UDC grads considering that a large portion of students at schools like Gtown and GW cannot find decent paying legal work.

Unfortunately, most employers (even public interest employers) don't care about the school's mission. While UDC's mission may be admirable, that doesn't mean employers are or will be hiring UDC grads in droves.

urmaster123 wrote:So then where do UDC graduates gain employment? I know that many law schools publish misleading data, but UDC can't mislead using its entire data. This is the law school that I wish to attend sometime in the near future, as I can easily afford it ($8,000 a year). Surely there have to be some kind of employment for an UDC graduate? I have searched the school website and have found no statistics. Its purpose if of course quite a bit more loftier than Harvard's + Yale's: educate minorities in the law in order for them to give back to their legally underrepresented communities. More In depth insights needed!

Anonymous User
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:33 pm

I know UDC grads who operate their own private practices, who work for non-profit agencies and who work for small law firms. They're employed, and happily so.

If you want a school where you can hang your hat on its reputation, go to Harvard. If you want a school where you can hang your hat on your own hard work, reputation and success ... all while serving the public good, then by all means, go here.

Anonymous User
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 am

So here is the deal about UDC law school, and this is coming from a graduate of the school (2008), and now a DC-barred attorney. UDC is NOT the school you want to go to if you want a big-firm job!!! While I was in law school, I once had a group lunch with a Supreme Court Justice (yes the highest court in the land) and he started talking about schools in the DC area, and he specifically stopped to provide VERY negative comments about UDC …THAT my friends is the kind of reputation you have to overcome so I hope you get my drift!

Now on to the good news! What UDC does provide is an ability to gain a cheap law degree, (well the tuition is cheap but living in DC is very expensive), the oppurtunity to become a lawyer, and access to a decent paying job. YES, you are not destined for a life of poverty and your body will not be covered in boils and sores solely because you went to UDC law. However, you have to think VERY broadly about what you intend to do with your law degree and you may have to take a quasi-legal position to make a good living.

When I was thinking of law school, I was admitted into my choice school of Michigan State Law, but UDC was what I could afford and it gave me the opportunity to live and work in DC. The school does not have the greatest facilities; the reputation ranges from poor to non-existent, and unquestionably the weirdest collection of individuals, professors, and faculty I have ever met in my life.

When I started UDC law I was 50/50 on whether I wanted to practice law 100%. My decision was further aided by the fact that it was incredibly difficult for me to obtain a legal internship that I thought was interesting or paid enough. Even though I went to UDC, I have very little interest in Public Interest Law per se, and I wanted to do something that involved numbers. What I had to do was to rely on my undergraduate degree in Economics and Finance, and sell my legal education as a means to get the kind of work and salary I wanted.

UDC WILL NOT open any doors for you and I cannot stress that enough. If you do not have a hustler mentality then it would behoove you not to come to UDC and save your money busting your ass somewhere else. If the only means of happiness in your life is to obtain a high-paying legal job (which are harder to come by regardless of where you go to school) then go somewhere else. The reputation of UDC is just too difficult to overcome in your attempt to get these jobs.

Two years out of school and I am relatively happy with where I am. Sure my journey was difficult but as long as you don’t come in with the wrong expectations then I think you will be fine.

UDC2011
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby UDC2011 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:20 pm

UDC Law's reputation is so awful that it was ranked in the top 10 for its clinics...better than many of the alleged tops law schools in the country. The school lacks the old boys network that is pervasive in legal employment, so that's a hurdle. Like just about everything else in life, UDC Law is what you make of it. The reputation is not the best, but it's improving greatly. Perpetuating a negative reputation about UDC may have less to do with the school itself and more to do with trying to maintain the superior reputation of other institutions.

UDC2011
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby UDC2011 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:40 pm

The world is beginning to take notice that UDC Law is no longer a "bottom of the barrel" school, as one above poster described it. Read what the Boston Globe had to say earlier this year.

"But for years, less than a quarter of its graduates were able to pass the bar exam on their first try, a miserable rate that repeatedly thwarted its chances of gaining national accreditation...

"As a result, graduates’ bar passing rates slowly climbed over the course of a decade, inching up by about 10 percentage points each year from the 14 percent low to a high of 83 percent in 2008."

http://www.boston.com/news/education/hi ... ?page=full

savagecheater
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby savagecheater » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:20 pm

UDC2011 wrote:The world is beginning to take notice that UDC Law is no longer a "bottom of the barrel" school, as one above poster described it. Read what the Boston Globe had to say earlier this year.

"But for years, less than a quarter of its graduates were able to pass the bar exam on their first try, a miserable rate that repeatedly thwarted its chances of gaining national accreditation...

"As a result, graduates’ bar passing rates slowly climbed over the course of a decade, inching up by about 10 percentage points each year from the 14 percent low to a high of 83 percent in 2008."

http://www.boston.com/news/education/hi ... ?page=full


So your bar passage rate is up, but that doesn't translate into employment.

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rayiner
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby rayiner » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:45 pm

urmaster123 wrote:Stats:
UG Degree ~ Info. Sys.
LSAT ~ 160
GPA ~ 3.2 - 3.3

URM: Middle Eastern/South Asian
Okay softs -- President of a Religious Club (MSA)
Community Organizer -- Helped organize food drives, clothing drives over summer breaks

Money is a issue --> I am planning on taking out very few loans

Chance me (if you want) for:
U.D.C. Clarke School of Law (http://www.law.udc.edu/)
University of Baltimore Law School (http://law.ubalt.edu/index.cfm)
American Law School (http://www.law.american.edu/)
Georgetown
GW Law
George Mason Law
University of Maryland Law
UVA Law


LOL @ South Asian being a minority. There's half a dozen brown people in my section of 60.

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najumobi
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby najumobi » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:00 pm

urmaster123 wrote:Stats:
UG Degree ~ Info. Sys.
LSAT ~ 160
GPA ~ 3.2 - 3.3

URM: Middle Eastern/South Asian
Okay softs -- President of a Religious Club (MSA)
Community Organizer -- Helped organize food drives, clothing drives over summer breaks

Money is a issue --> I am planning on taking out very few loans

Chance me (if you want) for:
U.D.C. Clarke School of Law (http://www.law.udc.edu/)
University of Baltimore Law School (http://law.ubalt.edu/index.cfm)
American Law School (http://www.law.american.edu/)
Georgetown
GW Law
George Mason Law
University of Maryland Law
UVA Law

the only schools in this list you could get into are udc and UB. Baltimore is a much better option than UDC.

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nealric
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby nealric » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:45 pm

Baltimore is a much better option than UDC.


Not once you factor in cost.

I would say UDC is not a terrible choice if you can graduate with no debt (perhaps doable going part time and working full time). Frankly, any school in the DC area besides GULC and GW is going to require a hustler/salesperson mentality if you are going to do well.

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najumobi
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby najumobi » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:23 pm

nealric wrote:
Baltimore is a much better option than UDC.


Not once you factor in cost.

I would say UDC is not a terrible choice if you can graduate with no debt (perhaps doable going part time and working full time). Frankly, any school in the DC area besides GULC and GW is going to require a hustler/salesperson mentality if you are going to do well.

yeah you're probably right...

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D Brooks
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby D Brooks » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:18 pm

LOL @ GW.

Tskin
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Re: Employment outlook for UDC Law Graduates in D.C.

Postby Tskin » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:20 pm

My wife recently transferred to UDC after a great deal of soul-searching.

UDC should be attractive to those interested in public interest careers not just because of the school's mission - but it's cost. The low tuition enables graduates to start work in the traditionally lower-paying public interest field without the debt that often prevent top-tier graduates from accepting public interest work. UDC graduates don't have too much of a problem finding legal work, they just must find them in areas that others can't afford to work in. It's a strategy designed to give UDC students a niche in the public interest sector, and it may pay dividends in the future.

On the other hand, UDC only very recently became fully accredited so it's graduates have not had the opportunity to have substantial impacts on the broader legal community. Those interested in a career focused on public interest should not be deterred by this because this outlook should change for a few reasons. First, the professors, clinics, and location in the American legal community are top quality. Professors include judges, Nobel Prize winners, and others with a passion for social justice. Second, whereas the federal government may attract many graduates of top tier law programs, there is the often neglected local DC government, and suburban communities with a high demand for public interest law work. Third, the school is growing from its current size of a few hundred students to nearly 800 when its new facility is completed. As graduates begin to make a bigger impact in the local D.C legal community (which they will dominate as the District's only public law school), look for UDC to make a gradual mark on the larger legal community.

Bottom line, UDC's not a bad deal, but have a clear plan for your legal future after you graduate. Know that your competitive advantage as a graduate will be your ability to perform the same work for less than your top tier peers, and understand that UDC doesn't have much of a reputation yet. You may not get as much pay to begin with, but the lower cost means you have more flexibility to choose your career path than those with a massive debt burden to pay off.

It's a bit of an investment of faith (one that many of us cannot afford to make), but UDC's not a bad idea if you know you want to be a public interest lawyer.




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