Military Law Forum

[rtb2008x]

Thanks for the great information! I was asking only because I wanted to know when I would initially be salaried. Need to pay back those law school loans...

I was under the impression that for AF JAG, I'll take the bar exam in July, then immediately after go through COT in the first week in August. Then a month or two later I'll get bar results. So if they salary me during COT, I'll be paid before my bar results?

[Patrick Bateman]

Thanks for the great information! I was asking only because I wanted to know when I would initially be salaried. Need to pay back those law school loans...

I was under the impression that for AF JAG, I'll take the bar exam in July, then immediately after go through COT in the first week in August. Then a month or two later I'll get bar results. So if they salary me during COT, I'll be paid before my bar results?

Your impression is not correct. Howell laid it all out for you.

Assuming your are a 3L accepted for Direct Appointment (DAP) - you will sit for the bar in July and you will not be doing anything AF related (other than some preliminary paperwork) until you pass the bar and can submit some verification to JAX. If you get bar results early (Nebraska, Iowa) or are automatically waived in (Wisconsin law schools for the Wisconsin bar), you will likely have enough time to get sworn in along with everything else for COT in October. Most folks will end up in the January COT class though - I sat for Illinois and I went to Jan COT.

The day you leave for COT becomes your first day of active duty service and the first day you start getting paid. It can take a while to get set up by finance, however, and you should not count on a paycheck right away. You'll get backpay but some folks did not get paid until the end of COT.

Folks that come in through the ROTC programs can find themselves at JASOC after having taken the bar but before results come out.

[Anonymous User]

For those inquiring about the internship decision timeline, there is a 1-800 number you can call. 1-800-524-8723 and ask for Captain Megan Mallone. She can answer q's. good luck!

[middlebear]

Is there any sort of comprehensive comparison for the different branches? I'm particularly focused on AF/Navy, and my impression is that you get to do more varied work and rotations in Navy earlier on (though, if I'm remembering right, are you a line officer in AF but not Navy?) but other than that I'm having a difficult time getting concrete info about the differences.

Apologies if this was discussed 100 pages ago or something--this thread is just massive.

[Armylaw101]

For any of those wondering, the Air Force has at least started sending out their tentative job offers for their 1L summer internship program. Not sure if they've sent them all or not.

[guitarman86]

Question about the Air Force JAG tentative job offer:

The email states that it is not yet a firm offer and not to make any definite commitments based on it. For those with previous experience, is it highly likely that you'll still be rejected, or are you generally pretty safe at this point? Thanks in advance for the info!

[Patrick Bateman]

Question about the Air Force JAG tentative job offer:

The email states that it is not yet a firm offer and not to make any definite commitments based on it. For those with previous experience, is it highly likely that you'll still be rejected, or are you generally pretty safe at this point? Thanks in advance for the info!

Without seeing the wording of the email, I cannot say with any real certainty but it is likely "tentative" because it is subject to funding, final approval at some high level, and your passing the background check -- all stuff outside your control and that you should not stress about. When I jumped to the Fed civilian side, my position was a "temporary" appointment that would become permanent upon my passing the security clearance investigation.

[Holynorth]

Just 1Ls or can any 2Ls report receiving these emails?

[Anonymous User]

2L here and have heard nothing regarding paid AF internship. Hoping that a lot of people turn down offers!

[Holynorth]

Yeah I'm still sitting at referred with no email, letter, or phone call yet.

[skylaws]

Is there any sort of comprehensive comparison for the different branches? I'm particularly focused on AF/Navy, and my impression is that you get to do more varied work and rotations in Navy earlier on (though, if I'm remembering right, are you a line officer in AF but not Navy?) but other than that I'm having a difficult time getting concrete info about the differences.

Apologies if this was discussed 100 pages ago or something--this thread is just massive.

At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah I'm still sitting at referred with no email, letter, or phone call yet.

Me too

[Patrick Bateman]

Is there any sort of comprehensive comparison for the different branches? I'm particularly focused on AF/Navy, and my impression is that you get to do more varied work and rotations in Navy earlier on (though, if I'm remembering right, are you a line officer in AF but not Navy?) but other than that I'm having a difficult time getting concrete info about the differences.

Apologies if this was discussed 100 pages ago or something--this thread is just massive.

At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.

Pretty sure Marine Corps and Coast Guard are the only branches were lawyers are also line officers.

Air Force JAGs are line officers.

[skylaws]

Is there any sort of comprehensive comparison for the different branches? I'm particularly focused on AF/Navy, and my impression is that you get to do more varied work and rotations in Navy earlier on (though, if I'm remembering right, are you a line officer in AF but not Navy?) but other than that I'm having a difficult time getting concrete info about the differences.

Apologies if this was discussed 100 pages ago or something--this thread is just massive.

At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.

Pretty sure Marine Corps and Coast Guard are the only branches were lawyers are also line officers.

Air Force JAGs are line officers.

My bad. Good to know though, thanks for the correction!

[Anonymous User]

Based on my experience and talking with others, Army and Navy are the only ones where the attorneys aren't line officers.

[middlebear]

At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.

Pretty sure Marine Corps and Coast Guard are the only branches were lawyers are also line officers.

Air Force JAGs are line officers.

My bad. Good to know though, thanks for the correction!

Thanks to both of you for this info. (And hey, not doing areas of law I think would be totally boring? Sounds great, Navy.) Does the line officer difference really translate into anything for most people, or is that really only important for those that want to go career and eventually shift outside of JAG?

[Patrick Bateman]

At least one sizeable difference between the two is that the Navy sends some of its legal work to the civilian-side Navy OGC. Contracting, employment law, etc. are done by the OGC, so you wouldn't be doing those as a Navy JAG. I do think you are correct about the earlier rotations in practice area for the Navy though, but I could be remembering wrong.

Pretty sure Marine Corps and Coast Guard are the only branches were lawyers are also line officers.

Air Force JAGs are line officers.

My bad. Good to know though, thanks for the correction!

Thanks to both of you for this info. (And hey, not doing areas of law I think would be totally boring? Sounds great, Navy.) Does the line officer difference really translate into anything for most people, or is that really only important for those that want to go career and eventually shift outside of JAG?

It makes absolutely no difference, from an Air Force perspective, other than having this meaningless trump card to play on the Army and Navy when this question comes up on this board. Air Force JAGs are line, but I have never known of a JAG to actually hold a real squadron or group command. The AFLOA commander is a legitimate, G-Series Orders, commander but that is the only game in town. A generation ago, JAGs could and did command FSS and other non-operational squadrons - unless we get a TJAG that actually wants to bring that back, which has not seemed even a consideration in the three I have served under, this is not anything one should hold their breath for.

Our Line status makes no difference in terms of internal AF promotion, as we have our own promotion category (Line of the Air Force - Judge Advocate; LAF-J). We do have real line officers that sit on our promotion boards which some argue is maybe not the best idea - I don't think I should have any say in respect to which F-15E pilots get promoted as I have no idea what the hell goes into their job but you can bet on some rated folks on your promotion board as a lawyer.

I would be honestly shocked if civilians were even aware of the line/non-line/staff distinction. Line status will not make any difference, at all, for a civilian gig. At least once every two weeks I am asked if I also flew F-16s due to the personalized Thunderbirds lithograph I have in my office.

[middlebear]

^again, thank you for the information. I figured it didn't really make a difference, but it's good to know for sure.

[Anonymous User]

Any more updates on the AF paid internship? If someone with a tentative offer could say maybe when you have to accept by? 2L sitting here referred with no new news.

[MarkfromWI]

Are there any former Army JAG interns on here who spent their summer at Fort Hood? I'm having a hard time finding a place to stay that will do a 2 month lease. If anyone has a recommendation, please shoot me a PM. All help is appreciated. Thanks!

[Holynorth]

Any more updates on the AF paid internship? If someone with a tentative offer could say maybe when you have to accept by? 2L sitting here referred with no new news.

Looking for the same. Can any 2Ls confirm offers being made? I've received nothing since receiving my referral email.

[Anonymous User]

I e-mailed them regarding the paid internship and they said that invitations will go out this week and next week.

[Anonymous User]

I was offered a last minute externship with the Army this summer. Very excited, but they seem slow on the paperwork

[Anonymous User]

If selected, at which point are you required to make weight? Is it at MEPs or during JAOBC?

[S. Goodman]

If selected, at which point are you required to make weight? Is it at MEPS or during JAOBC?

Also concerned about this . . . I believe it is at MEPS that you have to be under weight. I believe this based on (1) extensive Googling (other boards, anecdotal evidence etc.), (2) the fact that after you qualify at MEPS and actually sign your contract you are "in" the military at that point, meaning you need to be fully qualified to serve before you sign your contract, and MEPS is the point where it is determined whether or not you are qualified to serve. And (3) I was in the Marines for four year before law school and I remember that is how it was done when I wen't to MEPS in 2008.

Another good question would be (A) if you are overweight at MEPS will they give you some more time to get under weight, and (B) is it permissible if you pass the tape test rather than the weight test.