Hours in Houston/Dallas

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 313034
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:20 pm

Summer Associate in Texas asking a question.

I'm curious what average billables across Texas are for 1st and 2nd years at big law firms. The average here, at a big NYC firm outpost, is about 2400. Curious if this is high, low, or pretty typical. Firm name appreciate but not required.

User avatar
cfcm

Silver
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:30 pm

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby cfcm » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:30 pm

That's pretty unbelievable to me.

Anonymous User
Posts: 313034
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:32 pm

As in high? Because that's what I thought when I saw it and found out.

Anonymous User
Posts: 313034
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:Summer Associate in Texas asking a question.

I'm curious what average billables across Texas are for 1st and 2nd years at big law firms. The average here, at a big NYC firm outpost, is about 2400. Curious if this is high, low, or pretty typical. Firm name appreciate but not required.


I can only speak to Houston corporate scene (I'm a 2nd year M&A at native Houston firm). The average across Houston firms should be less than 2400. V&E had significant minorities of corporate associates at less than 2000 last year. BB works more but still less than 2400. NRF averages significantly less than both BB/V&E (both lit and corporate) -- south of 2000 for most. K&E was super crazy slammed in 2015 and 2016, but they have hired more recently and while they are quite busy, it's no longer the suicidefest it used to be. The regional firms will vary greatly.

Right2BearArms

Bronze
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby Right2BearArms » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:37 am

2400 as an average seems high, but its possible one or two people will reach/exceed that. Major firm M&A here, I finished last year with just under 2300, though a few hundred of that was pro-bono and random firm work that counted for hours (Jan-may was reeeealllyyyy slow last year). Still had over 2000 "client" hours.

This year on pace for the same or slightly less, though its been a very up and down year for me, I am either slammed or dead. If a couple of deals spread out and I can stay comfortably busy the rest of the way, 2300 is possible for me again.

I know the top firms have been busy (VE, KE, Latham, BB to a lesser extent (I rarely work across from them so idk honestly). KE is still a grindhouse, and probably always will be, but the huge restructuring deals that consumed their office the last couple of years have slowed down (until oil tanks again) and their staffing is starting to catch up with the work load.

favabeansoup

Bronze
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:26 pm

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby favabeansoup » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:58 pm

The only offices I know with "average" billables that high are certain lit boutiques.

OP I think you probably just talked to a particularly busy associate or two and that's what they said. 2400 as officewide average is prettty high and unusual.

User avatar
HenryHankPalmer

Bronze
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:39 pm

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby HenryHankPalmer » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:28 pm

With those billables, what do your typical days look like in terms of hours?

Right2BearArms

Bronze
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby Right2BearArms » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:08 pm

HenryHankPalmer wrote:With those billables, what do your typical days look like in terms of hours?


If you mean generally, it can mean 12 hours days pretty regularly to bill that much.

If you mean more specifically, it varies wildly. In the last week I had two "normal days" of getting to the office between 9 and 9:30 and going home between 6 and 6:30. Had a bad day of getting in before 8:30 and staying until after 10; one really bad day of working at home for an hour before I got to the office at 9, and not being done until around 2 am. Then Friday was a closing which took far longer than necessary, but despite that I got out of the office shortly after 4 and comfortably played 18 holes of golf before dark.

Tl;DR: it varies greatly.

Anonymous User
Posts: 313034
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:01 pm

At one of the big shops in Houston. Even with a horribly slow Q1 due to the energy markets last year, I ended 2400 and 2600 billed and I was one of the higher billers in my class. I know a couple associates at my firm (in other class years) may have been in the 2600 to 2800 range, but they were the deviations from the rule, and my firm's Houston office was very busy last year.

It's hard to make a normative statement about an entire firm's pace because it really varies depending on practice group. For example, the M&A group at K&E works a different amount (and has drastically different expectations about the work level that is normal) than the K&E CapM group. Grinders can (and will) exist in any practice, but really the best question to ask is how busy any specific practice group is overall.

And after a couple years in the game, a 200-hour month feels relatively light (never thought I'd say that...) and I'd prefer doing 12 consecutive 200-hour months (for 2400) total than alternating 300/100 months. In other words, it's not the high annual hours that hurt, it's the high weeks (80-100+) and months (300+) that start wearing on you.

Anonymous User
Posts: 313034
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:04 pm

Accidental double post

bigdlawyer

New
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:29 pm

Re: Hours in Houston/Dallas

Postby bigdlawyer » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At one of the big shops in Houston. Even with a horribly slow Q1 due to the energy markets last year, I ended 2400 and 2600 billed and I was one of the higher billers in my class. I know a couple associates at my firm (in other class years) may have been in the 2600 to 2800 range, but they were the deviations from the rule, and my firm's Houston office was very busy last year.

It's hard to make a normative statement about an entire firm's pace because it really varies depending on practice group. For example, the M&A group at K&E works a different amount (and has drastically different expectations about the work level that is normal) than the K&E CapM group. Grinders can (and will) exist in any practice, but really the best question to ask is how busy any specific practice group is overall.

And after a couple years in the game, a 200-hour month feels relatively light (never thought I'd say that...) and I'd prefer doing 12 consecutive 200-hour months (for 2400) total than alternating 300/100 months. In other words, it's not the high annual hours that hurt, it's the high weeks (80-100+) and months (300+) that start wearing on you.


Isn't that the truth. A steady 200 is glorious. Its the 75 hour months and 275 hour months that kill me.



Return to “Legal Employment�

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.