Consultant taking questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi folks,

This board helped me out a good bit when I was applying and in law school so would like to give back a bit if people are interested. I graduated law school and now work for a consulting firm (one of McKinsey / Bain / BCG), and since there's not too much info here about alternative career paths to the traditional legal routes, thought I'd answer questions (that and I don't have a busy day today ).

A little about me: went to a T14, and had some prior business experience (not working for one of the above mentioned firms). Summered at a couple of law firms and decided it wasn't the path for me personally, though just about all my friends ended up there.

[Anonymous User]

What is the pay structure?
How much travel is involved?
What does your typical day look like?

[Anonymous User]

I've always thought about going into management consulting. Seems like a great alternative career option.

A few questions:

-What are the hours like?

- Do you get sick of the travelling?

- Do you have to bill hours, or have any sort of billable hour requirements (like you do in biglaw)?

- What was recruiting like?

- When did you decide you didn't want to "be a lawyer"?

- Would it be harder for an already practicing lawyer to make the switch over to consulting, as compared to someone fresh out of school? How would a practicing lawyer do this?

[Anonymous User]

What is the pay structure?
How much travel is involved?
What does your typical day look like?

Pay structure: I kinda figured this would be the first question lol. It is different than BigLaw: the 3 firms as far as I know all offer first years a mix of signing bonus, base, year-end bonus, and retirement contribution. Base is higher in big law, though big law doesn't offer signing bonus and retirement contribution. Altogether, the compensation is somewhat similar.

Travel: varies heavily. You will generally travel at least a bit, and sometimes much more frequently. It also depends on your office and the work you do (e.g. if you are in a west coast office focused on technology, not so much travel. If you are in Chicago and want to do Oil & Gas for some reason, expect to go to Houston every week).

Typical day: I know it's a cop out, but extremely variable. Typically involves a couple of hours of "problem solving" with the team on what we need to accomplish for the day, and how to go about it. Going about it typically can involve anything from powerpoint/excel work, to talking to experts in the field I'm working in, to interviewing client's employees, etc. If you're asking for hours, my days generally from Monday - Thursday are quite busy. It's rare I get much free time in during these days (today is the exception). That being said, I've very rarely had to work past 7pm on a Friday or put in more than 1-2 hours on a weekend.

[Anonymous User]

I've always thought about going into management consulting. Seems like a great alternative career option.

A few questions:

-What are the hours like?

- Do you get sick of the travelling?

- Do you have to bill hours, or have any sort of billable hour requirements (like you do in biglaw)?

- What was recruiting like?

- When did you decide you didn't want to "be a lawyer"?

- Would it be harder for an already practicing lawyer to make the switch over to consulting, as compared to someone fresh out of school? How would a practicing lawyer do this?

Hours: Ranges on the project, but Monday - Thursday are usually quite busy. Beyond ~7/8pm it really just depends on the week / project. Fridays are generally relaxed, and rarely any weekend work (generally, some projects will require this but you usually know in advance).

Travelling: I actually haven't traveled that much personally. I partially optimized for my work location and type of work I'm open to (e.g. NYC finance, West Coast tech, Houston Oil & Gas, etc.) so that helped.

Billing: No billing requirements or reporting. We don't track hours (well I suppose staffing personnel keeps track of utilization but it doesn't make an impact on us whatsoever)

Recruiting: Very different than BigLaw recruiting. The case study interview process is definitely more time-intensive in terms of preparation, and even when they ask you questions about your background they want impactful stories with lots of detail, not the window dressing you have at law school OCI for law firms. Overall, even though it's nerve-wracking, I enjoyed it and meeting the people I interviewed with. Nothing like successfully solving an interesting case with your interviewer.

Not wanting to be a lawyer: After I summered at a large law firm doing corporate work. No knock against corporate attorneys - met incredibly bright people that I worked with, and they looked after me. I just didn't see myself being happy or fulfilled or interested by the work beyond the summer. I won't say that my consulting work is engaging 100% of the time, but the client problems I have been working on are at least on a high level very interesting, I am given a lot of trust by my superiors, and the work is incredibly important to the client (all of my projects have been viewed by Board or C-level execs at very large companies).

Already practicing lawyers switching in - this is definitely done. One of my previous managers was an ex-lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Naturally, I would say you need to have similar-ish credentials as you would if you were going for a top BigLaw firm. Reach out to a recruiter - they're really quite friendly and would be interested I'm sure. You will have to go through the same process (case interviews, etc.) as anyone seeking full-time hire.

[Anonymous User]

Do you have any insight as to the recruiting process, or any suggestions generally, for someone whose a junior associate in biglaw (2nd year m&a/corp associate at v10 - to the extent it matters) potentially interested in making a switch to consulting at McK, BCG or Bain?

Edit: Scooped by previous anon, should have read

[Anonymous User]

A slightly more pointed question on recruiting: how does one go about finding/pursuing this type of opportunity?

[Anonymous User]

A slightly more pointed question on recruiting: how does one go about finding/pursuing this type of opportunity?

To piggyback off this, when you mention "reach out to a recruiter" - can you shed any color? Do you mean just a cold call/email/application to recruiting at one of said firms?

-Previous anon biglaw associate who apparently can't read

[Voyager]

What is the pay structure?
How much travel is involved?
What does your typical day look like?

Pay structure: I kinda figured this would be the first question lol. It is different than BigLaw: the 3 firms as far as I know all offer first years a mix of signing bonus, base, year-end bonus, and retirement contribution. Base is higher in big law, though big law doesn't offer signing bonus and retirement contribution. Altogether, the compensation is somewhat similar.

Travel: varies heavily. You will generally travel at least a bit, and sometimes much more frequently. It also depends on your office and the work you do (e.g. if you are in a west coast office focused on technology, not so much travel. If you are in Chicago and want to do Oil & Gas for some reason, expect to go to Houston every week).

Typical day: I know it's a cop out, but extremely variable. Typically involves a couple of hours of "problem solving" with the team on what we need to accomplish for the day, and how to go about it. Going about it typically can involve anything from powerpoint/excel work, to talking to experts in the field I'm working in, to interviewing client's employees, etc. If you're asking for hours, my days generally from Monday - Thursday are quite busy. It's rare I get much free time in during these days (today is the exception). That being said, I've very rarely had to work past 7pm on a Friday or put in more than 1-2 hours on a weekend.

I can add a bit:
Days are probably 12 hours of work M-Thu. Those days also are likely to involve being in a different city. Can be more depending on delivery dates.
Friday is at the office, lighter hours (8:30-5)

Some weekend work depending on where the project is in its life cycle... but way less than at a big NY firm. Way less.

overall: hours definitely better than biglaw

Upside pay is WAY more and the exit options are way way better.

I make more than my law school peers working a very comfortable 50 hour work week as an executive.

My upside potential if I keep getting promoted is also more than a biglaw partner.

Exit options are outstanding. McKinsey actually gives you several months of paid leave to simply look for a new job!

[Voyager]

I knew lots of JDs at McKinsey New York office

I didn't know any practicing lawyers coming in... I think that's rare.

Easier to make this decision through OCI.

As practicing lawyer, you would apply online... McKinsey does not use outside recruiters for associates/analysts. No need to.

Do use them for partners.

[Voyager]

I've always thought about going into management consulting. Seems like a great alternative career option.

A few questions:

-What are the hours like?

- Do you get sick of the travelling?

- Do you have to bill hours, or have any sort of billable hour requirements (like you do in biglaw)?

- What was recruiting like?

- When did you decide you didn't want to "be a lawyer"?

- Would it be harder for an already practicing lawyer to make the switch over to consulting, as compared to someone fresh out of school? How would a practicing lawyer do this?

Hours: see my answer above

Travel: I certainly did. Most people do. Its a grind. I traveled (airplane) for something like 20 months of the 25 I was at the firm.

No billables. This is McKinsey, friend. Deloitte does that. Not McKinsey

Recruiting: see posts above. for non-MBAs: 3 rounds of interviews involving loads of cases. Super high bar. Only 2 of us made it from CLS my year.

Deciding to not be a lawyer: 3L year for me.

WAY harder to do this once you are out of school

[Anonymous User]

A slightly more pointed question on recruiting: how does one go about finding/pursuing this type of opportunity?

To piggyback off this, when you mention "reach out to a recruiter" - can you shed any color? Do you mean just a cold call/email/application to recruiting at one of said firms?

-Previous anon biglaw associate who apparently can't read

As Voyager mentioned above, you can definitely apply through the website as well. I would imagine it wouldn't hurt to follow up with a recruiter as well. Def no need to call however.

[Voyager]

A slightly more pointed question on recruiting: how does one go about finding/pursuing this type of opportunity?

To piggyback off this, when you mention "reach out to a recruiter" - can you shed any color? Do you mean just a cold call/email/application to recruiting at one of said firms?

-Previous anon biglaw associate who apparently can't read

As Voyager mentioned above, you can definitely apply through the website as well. I would imagine it wouldn't hurt to follow up with a recruiter as well. Def no need to call however.

I am very confident that if they call Firm Recruiting, they will simply tell them to apply online.

Take the essay seriously. That thing makes a difference!

[Anonymous User]

T14/Biglaw SA/High LSAT/Crappy UG/Crappy work experience at a local bookstore. Do these stats disqualify me from being considered at all?

[Voyager]

T14/Biglaw SA/High LSAT/Crappy UG/Crappy work experience at a local bookstore. Do these stats disqualify me from being considered at all?

Go check and see if McKinsey does OCI at your school. I know the firm went to CLS, Chicago and NYU.

Not sure about lower down.

Work experience? One of my good friends at the firm was an opera singer with a PhD in History who wrote his thesis on the American telegraph system.

So not critical.

UG probably won't matter if your law school is good enough.

If McKinsey comes to OCI, you should be able to get into the 1st round at least.

[Anonymous User]

A slightly more pointed question on recruiting: how does one go about finding/pursuing this type of opportunity?

To piggyback off this, when you mention "reach out to a recruiter" - can you shed any color? Do you mean just a cold call/email/application to recruiting at one of said firms?

-Previous anon biglaw associate who apparently can't read

As Voyager mentioned above, you can definitely apply through the website as well. I would imagine it wouldn't hurt to follow up with a recruiter as well. Def no need to call however.

I am very confident that if they call Firm Recruiting, they will simply tell them to apply online.

Take the essay seriously. That thing makes a difference!

A good time to see a post like this, also you guys should read Voyager's post from a while ago. (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=238993)

Biglaw junior M&A associate here with a finance background and a pretty good GMAT. I just got an interview invite from BCG today, also hoping to get one from Bain after their experienced hire deadline (1/27). McKinsey turned me down saying they don't have positions available.

Law to management consulting is definitely doable, I've seen quite a few law school grads/lawyers who made the jump. Not sure about the success rate though so fingers crossed. The best way to do this is to reach out to recruiters (on their websites), make sure you apply online before their deadlines, then network and get internal referrals.

From my experience, McKinsey is incredibly busy, their start positions have been filled up till 2018, all experienced hires I know of are interviewing for implementation/IT type of specialists role. (Lawyers start as generalists, same as post-MBA candidates). BCG and Bain seem to be able to do experienced hiring this Feb-Mar, with a start date in Apr.

[Anonymous User]

A slightly more pointed question on recruiting: how does one go about finding/pursuing this type of opportunity?

To piggyback off this, when you mention "reach out to a recruiter" - can you shed any color? Do you mean just a cold call/email/application to recruiting at one of said firms?

-Previous anon biglaw associate who apparently can't read

As Voyager mentioned above, you can definitely apply through the website as well. I would imagine it wouldn't hurt to follow up with a recruiter as well. Def no need to call however.

I am very confident that if they call Firm Recruiting, they will simply tell them to apply online.

Take the essay seriously. That thing makes a difference!

A good time to see a post like this, also you guys should read Voyager's post from a while ago. (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=238993)

Biglaw junior M&A associate here with a finance background and a pretty good GMAT. I just got an interview invite from BCG today, also hoping to get one from Bain after their experienced hire deadline (1/27). McKinsey turned me down saying they don't have positions available.

Law to management consulting is definitely doable, I've seen quite a few law school grads/lawyers who made the jump. Not sure about the success rate though so fingers crossed. The best way to do this is to reach out to recruiters (on their websites), make sure you apply online before their deadlines, then network and get internal referrals.

From my experience, McKinsey is incredibly busy, their start positions have been filled up till 2018, all experienced hires I know of are interviewing for implementation/IT type of specialists role. (Lawyers start as generalists, same as post-MBA candidates). BCG and Bain seem to be able to do experienced hiring this Feb-Mar, with a start date in Apr.

This brings up an interesting point. If I am unavailable until summer 2018, should I start looking into applying now? It seems incredibly early but I also don't want to miss the boat.

[Anonymous User]

A slightly more pointed question on recruiting: how does one go about finding/pursuing this type of opportunity?

To piggyback off this, when you mention "reach out to a recruiter" - can you shed any color? Do you mean just a cold call/email/application to recruiting at one of said firms?

-Previous anon biglaw associate who apparently can't read

As Voyager mentioned above, you can definitely apply through the website as well. I would imagine it wouldn't hurt to follow up with a recruiter as well. Def no need to call however.

I am very confident that if they call Firm Recruiting, they will simply tell them to apply online.

Take the essay seriously. That thing makes a difference!

A good time to see a post like this, also you guys should read Voyager's post from a while ago. (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=238993)

Biglaw junior M&A associate here with a finance background and a pretty good GMAT. I just got an interview invite from BCG today, also hoping to get one from Bain after their experienced hire deadline (1/27). McKinsey turned me down saying they don't have positions available.

Law to management consulting is definitely doable, I've seen quite a few law school grads/lawyers who made the jump. Not sure about the success rate though so fingers crossed. The best way to do this is to reach out to recruiters (on their websites), make sure you apply online before their deadlines, then network and get internal referrals.

From my experience, McKinsey is incredibly busy, their start positions have been filled up till 2018, all experienced hires I know of are interviewing for implementation/IT type of specialists role. (Lawyers start as generalists, same as post-MBA candidates). BCG and Bain seem to be able to do experienced hiring this Feb-Mar, with a start date in Apr.

This brings up an interesting point. If I am unavailable until summer 2018, should I start looking into applying now? It seems incredibly early but I also don't want to miss the boat.

Quoted anon with bolded sentence here.

That's too early to apply, but not too early to start preparing for the case interviews. You should probably apply 2-3 months before your targeted start date.
Experienced hiring at every firm is done on a rolling basis, also, not every office has openings. You really need to reach out to the office recruiters regarding specific start dates.
McKinsey, BCG and Bain all hire JD, PHD, MD students (McKinsey hires the most, Bain the least, BCG in the middle), if you are still a student, you'd interview around Aug-Oct the year before graduation.

[Anonymous User]

Anon above. I am in a clerkship that doesn't end until 2018. I have significant business experience and another grad degree. Consulting has always been an interest but not something I thought was available unless I had an MBA.

[umichman]

If I have no business expertise what does it look like if I try to go into specific co sting based on my area of practice? Like real estate to real estate consulting or tax to tax consulting or bankruptcy to turnaround ? If I am not really hooked on mbb would lower tier consulting firms be more interest if I did work in that area as a lawyer beforehand?

[Anonymous User]

Anon above. I am in a clerkship that doesn't end until 2018. I have significant business experience and another grad degree. Consulting has always been an interest but not something I thought was available unless I had an MBA.

Received this from my school's consulting club the other day. Again, you need to reach out to recruiters and make sure the timeframe works for you. I'd confirm with all MBB recruiters before anything.

BCG Full Time Positions (for students)
Applications for full time consultant positions may be submitted online here by the following deadlines:
· April 2, 2017 for positions with start dates from June – August 2017.
· July 23, 2017 for positions with 2018 start dates. Please submit applications after May 1, 2017.

[Anonymous User]

I've always thought about going into management consulting. Seems like a great alternative career option.


Not wanting to be a lawyer: After I summered at a large law firm doing corporate work. No knock against corporate attorneys - met incredibly bright people that I worked with, and they looked after me. I just didn't see myself being happy or fulfilled or interested by the work beyond the summer. I won't say that my consulting work is engaging 100% of the time, but the client problems I have been working on are at least on a high level very interesting, I am given a lot of trust by my superiors, and the work is incredibly important to the client (all of my projects have been viewed by Board or C-level execs at very large companies).

Thanks alot for doing this. I did a lot of research to make the jump to consulting but never took the leap... I would much appreciate details on the kind of high level interesting work that you do and expect to do as you advance into more senior positions? I've only gotten rather nebulous responses when I asked this questions, which is understandable since it would be difficult to explain the technical matters to someone out of the trenches -- that being said, I would appreciate a detailed desciption on the services that you provide....

I'm a junior associate at biglaw doing general corp, and no surprise, I have the common gripe caused by the repetitive nature of the work that can be easily automated with current technology and the only reason that I hold out is because I see senior partners providing (albeit seldomly) impactful advise that implicates business decisions. I talked to a manager at Bain and was told that many associates have the similar complaints, the only difference is that they're dealing with decks. Do you see your work (or task performed by associates at MBB) easily replaceable with technology in the next few years?

Lastly, from a managmenet consultant's perspective, what value other than mere documentation and execution of the deal do transactional attorneys provide?

[curepure]

Regarding salary:
https://managementconsulted.com/consult ... a-interns/

1st Year Out of MBA/Grad Program Salaries

Bain & Company MBA/Grad Salary

Base: $148,000 (Canada: C$120,000)
Performance Bonus: up to $37,000
Total Cash (sum of above): up to $185,000
Retirement: 401k contribution up to $8,000
Signing Bonus: $25,000
Relocation: up to $5,000: up to $8,000
---------

Boston Consulting Group (BCG) MBA/Grad Salary

Base: $147,000 (Dubai: $130,000)
Performance Bonus: up to $44,100
Total Cash (sum of above): up to $191,100
Retirement: up to $9,555 into retirement fund, no contributions required
Signing Bonus: $30,000 (Dubai: $30,000)
Relocation: $2-8,000
---------

McKinsey & Company MBA/Grad Salary

Base: $152,500
Performance Bonus: up to $35,000
Total Cash (sum of above): up to $187,500
Retirement: up to $11,900 (7% of qualified compensation, capped at $170,000)
Signing Bonus: $25,000
Relocation: $2-9,000

[Voyager]

I've always thought about going into management consulting. Seems like a great alternative career option.


Not wanting to be a lawyer: After I summered at a large law firm doing corporate work. No knock against corporate attorneys - met incredibly bright people that I worked with, and they looked after me. I just didn't see myself being happy or fulfilled or interested by the work beyond the summer. I won't say that my consulting work is engaging 100% of the time, but the client problems I have been working on are at least on a high level very interesting, I am given a lot of trust by my superiors, and the work is incredibly important to the client (all of my projects have been viewed by Board or C-level execs at very large companies).

Thanks alot for doing this. I did a lot of research to make the jump to consulting but never took the leap... I would much appreciate details on the kind of high level interesting work that you do and expect to do as you advance into more senior positions? I've only gotten rather nebulous responses when I asked this questions, which is understandable since it would be difficult to explain the technical matters to someone out of the trenches -- that being said, I would appreciate a detailed desciption on the services that you provide....

I'm a junior associate at biglaw doing general corp, and no surprise, I have the common gripe caused by the repetitive nature of the work that can be easily automated with current technology and the only reason that I hold out is because I see senior partners providing (albeit seldomly) impactful advise that implicates business decisions. I talked to a manager at Bain and was told that many associates have the similar complaints, the only difference is that they're dealing with decks. Do you see your work (or task performed by associates at MBB) easily replaceable with technology in the next few years?

Lastly, from a managmenet consultant's perspective, what value other than mere documentation and execution of the deal do transactional attorneys provide?

None of my projects could be "easily automated".

If Bain is selling work like that, they should be ashamed of themselves.

The deck is not just a collection of pages in a template. Its a summary of a very thorny business problem, broken into logical components, solved with math and business acumen, and then put back together into a global solution that we convince people to adopt

AND WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DONE WITHOUT US! Companies spend over $1M for 3 McKinsey people for 3 months. If they just wanted a "deck" they don't need us. These are super hard problems they don't know how to solve. The deck is merely the presentation of all of that work.

Anyone telling you this is just powerpoint has a VERY junior perspective on the work. They are missing what is going on.

Transactional attorneys simply make sure the right terms are in the contracts (if contracts are even an issue) and that we won't get screwed. I want their advice on business matters NOT. AT. ALL. They are serving a support function. They have neither the context nor training to play outside of that box.

[Voyager]

I'll post some example projects later...