How hard is it to get a job in SF/SV/LA with a out-of-state background? Forum

[Anonymous User]

No ties to CA but have relevant work experience (law firm partners in SF/SV said so) in emerging companies practice. How hard is it to get a job in SF/SV/LA with a out-of-state background? T30, no stellar grade (1L grade is horrible) but my 2L grades are top 10-20% per semester.

Since I can't access Symplicity of CA law schools, what would be the options to find a job in CA as a 3L, other than mass-mailing?

- Desperate 3L -

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak for SF/SV. But at least for LA, it's damn near to impossible. SA market is just so tiny that firms are super selective. I know some of my friends at HYS who struck out in LA because there was so much competition. Big firms like Sidley barely have 7 positions, and Latham/Gibson have around 15 each. But those are the outliers. Most biglaw firms have tiny classes. Cooley (1), STB (4), Jones Day (6).

Without stellar grades from a top school and a damn good reason for wanting to be in LA, it's close to impossible.

With that said, maybe that's just my experience/what I heard. Don't let my comments alone discourage you.

[Anonymous User]

No ties to CA but have relevant work experience (law firm partners in SF/SV said so) in emerging companies practice. How hard is it to get a job in SF/SV/LA with a out-of-state background? T30, no stellar grade (1L grade is horrible) but my 2L grades are top 10-20% per semester.

Since I can't access Symplicity of CA law schools, what would be the options to find a job in CA as a 3L, other than mass-mailing?

- Desperate 3L -

Currently work in SV/SF in an emerging companies practice. Networking/mass-mailing is probably your best shot, but your chances are low given your stats. There isn't a ton of 3L hiring, and most out-of-state laterals did general corporate work in NY. That would probably be your best shot if CA is a longer term goal. Another alternative is getting some experience in tech transactions, data privacy, or some other specialty. Firms are often looking for people with that kind of background and the hiring standards are a bit lower compared to general corporate.

[rpupkin]

It's not hard to get a big law job in SF/SV/LA with an out-of-state-background. It is, however, hard to get a big law job in SF/SV/LA with mediocre grades from a T30, regardless of whether you're in or out of state.

[Anonymous User]

There isn't a ton of 3L hiring, and most out-of-state laterals did general corporate work in NY. That would probably be your best shot if CA is a longer term goal.

Thanks for your advice. My follow-up question would be are there more job opportunities for general corporate transactional in NY then?

[iliketurtles123]

There isn't a ton of 3L hiring, and most out-of-state laterals did general corporate work in NY. That would probably be your best shot if CA is a longer term goal.

Thanks for your advice. My follow-up question would be are there more job opportunities for general corporate transactional in NY then?

Definitely. NY market, especially for corporate, is much bigger than LA.

Given your school rank/grades, I would first try getting biglaw (ANY biglaw, not just LA), then try to lateral to LA later. LA market is already small as it is.

I went to T6 and during my callbacks, I found out around 50-70% of the class size was already filled with UCLA/USC students (our OCI was later than UCLA/USC's). It was pretty competitive even coming from T6.

[clerk1251]

It's not hard to get a big law job in SF/SV/LA with an out-of-state-background. It is, however, hard to get a big law job in SF/SV/LA with mediocre grades from a T30, regardless of whether you're in or out of state.

I agree with this 100%. I also agree that there is not much 3L hiring, further making an out of state, mediocre grades at T30, offer, seem less likely. I think mass mailing is your best bet for sure. If you are fully committed to CA (which doesn't seem to be the case based on your NY comment), I'd recommend planning on taking the CA bar, moving out here, and looking for a job while you wait for your results. That will demonstrate your resolve to CA. It will also be easier to find something if you are local, even if it is not biglaw.

[jbagelboy]

Can't speak for SF/SV. But at least for LA, it's damn near to impossible. SA market is just so tiny that firms are super selective. I know some of my friends at HYS who struck out in LA because there was so much competition. Big firms like Sidley barely have 7 positions, and Latham/Gibson have around 15 each. But those are the outliers. Most biglaw firms have tiny classes. Cooley (1), STB (4), Jones Day (6).

Without stellar grades from a top school and a damn good reason for wanting to be in LA, it's close to impossible.

With that said, maybe that's just my experience/what I heard. Don't let my comments alone discourage you.

This is an exaggeration. Selectivity varies across firms, some of which will look for strong grades from a T6, others will give room on credentials for strong ties. It's competitive but not "nearly impossible." The fact that most summer classes have a lot of native Californians shouldn't be taken as an indication that you need to be one in order to secure such a position, and many out of staters at my "top school" received callbacks and offers without perfect grades.

[clerk1251]

Can't speak for SF/SV. But at least for LA, it's damn near to impossible. SA market is just so tiny that firms are super selective. I know some of my friends at HYS who struck out in LA because there was so much competition. Big firms like Sidley barely have 7 positions, and Latham/Gibson have around 15 each. But those are the outliers. Most biglaw firms have tiny classes. Cooley (1), STB (4), Jones Day (6).

Without stellar grades from a top school and a damn good reason for wanting to be in LA, it's close to impossible.

With that said, maybe that's just my experience/what I heard. Don't let my comments alone discourage you.

This is an exaggeration. Selectivity varies across firms, some of which will look for strong grades from a T6, others will give room on credentials for strong ties. It's competitive but not "nearly impossible." The fact that most summer classes have a lot of native Californians shouldn't be taken as an indication that you need to be one in order to secure such a position, and many out of staters at my "top school" received callbacks and offers without perfect grades.

Yes, but OP is not asking about a summer program. From the way it sounds, he is trying to do 3L recruiting. I'd say that bumps it up to "nearly impossible."

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, I was top 25% at MVP, originally from CA's neighboring state. 0/4 on my callbacks in the SF/SV area, but went 4/5 in DC and NY. I think ties had a lot to do with it. I got grilled on why I wanted to be in SF. Without stellar grades, it'll be tough for you.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, I was top 25% at MVP, originally from CA's neighboring state. 0/4 on my callbacks in the SF/SV area, but went 4/5 in DC and NY. I think ties had a lot to do with it. I got grilled on why I wanted to be in SF. Without stellar grades, it'll be tough for you.

Anecdata doesn't mean much. Counterpoint -- top 33% MVP, 3/5 sf/sv, literally zero ties. Was in sf once for 2 days. Maybe there's a difference between m/v/p but I doubt it for CA.

[Anonymous User]

More anecdata - but I got a couple offers from SF branch offices and one from a top LA firm with absolutely 0 demonstrable ties to the state/region. T10 with top 3rd grades, no relevant work experience. So it definitely can be done for 2L summer programs (not OPs original question, I guess). Put together a good narrative about why you'd want to be there long term, and I think you'll have a shot.

[SLS_AMG]

There isn't a ton of 3L hiring, and most out-of-state laterals did general corporate work in NY. That would probably be your best shot if CA is a longer term goal.

Thanks for your advice. My follow-up question would be are there more job opportunities for general corporate transactional in NY then?

Definitely. NY market, especially for corporate, is much bigger than LA.

Given your school rank/grades, I would first try getting biglaw (ANY biglaw, not just LA), then try to lateral to LA later. LA market is already small as it is.

I went to T6 and during my callbacks, I found out around 50-70% of the class size was already filled with UCLA/USC students (our OCI was later than UCLA/USC's). It was pretty competitive even coming from T6.

That's because "T6" isn't a thing in California, or really anywhere outside of NYC. It's HYSB and then some mix of the remaining T14 along with USC and UCLA.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, I was top 25% at MVP, originally from CA's neighboring state. 0/4 on my callbacks in the SF/SV area, but went 4/5 in DC and NY. I think ties had a lot to do with it. I got grilled on why I wanted to be in SF. Without stellar grades, it'll be tough for you.

Anecdata doesn't mean much. Counterpoint -- top 33% MVP, 3/5 sf/sv, literally zero ties. Was in sf once for 2 days. Maybe there's a difference between m/v/p but I doubt it for CA.

Did you go to M? They have pretty good placement in SF/SV.

[bk1]

It's not hard to get a big law job in SF/SV/LA with an out-of-state-background. It is, however, hard to get a big law job in SF/SV/LA with mediocre grades from a T30, regardless of whether you're in or out of state.