Penn OCI 2016 (C/O 2018) Forum

[Auxilio]

Since I feel like everyone else has one, let's use this thread to discuss bid strategy and report callbacks.

Past Thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... hilit=Penn

I. Anonymous Handles

We all want to maintain some privacy during this process. That said, it is also nice to keep track of who is saying what. I recommend that everyone pick a handle with which to sign her anonymous posts (although you obviously don’t have to) so that we can keep track of one another.

II. Bidding

The basics of bidlist stuff should be straightforward even if you’re not Socrates: if you think other people are more likely to bid on a firm, you should bid it high. Firms that are less grade-selective or that have fewer interview spots are more competitive, so you should probably rank them higher. Don’t rank a firm high just because you want it, but if you really want a particular firm it might be good to rank it high for your peace of mind. The successful bid range on that excel sheet helps with this, although relying too heavily on it could be a mistake (or so I've heard). Finally, spreading bids out between multiple markets increases the risk of striking out, especially if you don't have strong ties to those markets. We’ve all seen the data: there are just more jobs in New York, so NY is a solid backup for folks who are trying to head to California, Chicago, DC, etc.

III. Callbacks

Once we’re at least part-way through the first rings of interviewing hell, people will get callbacks. In past years, people would post the firm name and the initials of the person who interviewed them when they received a callback so that people would know that callbacks had gone out.

Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone considering ranking Dechert and Morgan Lewis more since they moved to 180k in Philly? Do you think they have to be ranked higher this year than last year? Philly is not my first choice of markets but a lot more tempting now at 180.

- Iustis

[Anonymous User]

Is it possible to tell at this stage how interviews will be distributed during the OCI period? I'm a prospective transfer and I'm wondering how screwed I'll be by not getting into town until the 5th or 6th.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if the London based firms will actually fly you out to London if you snag a callback? Or do they just conduct callbacks in NY? Now would be a pretty good time to have free airfare and lodging in London, could get a pretty good vacation out of it for cheap

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if the London based firms will actually fly you out to London if you snag a callback? Or do they just conduct callbacks in NY? Now would be a pretty good time to have free airfare and lodging in London, could get a pretty good vacation out of it for cheap

Yeah I was wondering about that too. Applying to them anyways because I could easily see myself living in London for at least a few years (and I think the salary is USD so weak pound is good).

[EdwardIV]

Does anyone know if the London based firms will actually fly you out to London if you snag a callback? Or do they just conduct callbacks in NY? Now would be a pretty good time to have free airfare and lodging in London, could get a pretty good vacation out of it for cheap

Yeah I was wondering about that too. Applying to them anyways because I could easily see myself living in London for at least a few years (and I think the salary is USD so weak pound is good).

Whether a firm will fly you out varies by firm. For example, Allen and Overy flies candidates to London for callbacks, but I recall at least one of the other magic circle firms conducts interviews in nyc. For most of these firms, it helps (and is sometimes a pre-req) to show a tie to the UK - at least a study abroad experience or family connections.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if the London based firms will actually fly you out to London if you snag a callback? Or do they just conduct callbacks in NY? Now would be a pretty good time to have free airfare and lodging in London, could get a pretty good vacation out of it for cheap

Yeah I was wondering about that too. Applying to them anyways because I could easily see myself living in London for at least a few years (and I think the salary is USD so weak pound is good).

Whether a firm will fly you out varies by firm. For example, Allen and Overy flies candidates to London for callbacks, but I recall at least one of the other magic circle firms conducts interviews in nyc. For most of these firms, it helps (and is sometimes a pre-req) to show a tie to the UK - at least a study abroad experience or family connections.

That was what I was relying planning on relying on, significant family connections.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if the London based firms will actually fly you out to London if you snag a callback? Or do they just conduct callbacks in NY? Now would be a pretty good time to have free airfare and lodging in London, could get a pretty good vacation out of it for cheap

3L here, anecdotally AFAIK no one last year was flown to London for callbacks.

Also, I promise you that after 2-3 weeks of interviews and callbacks the absolute last thing you want is to be doing is sitting on a 7 hour flight to London for one night or a forced 3 day vacation. I got flow out to California for a single callback last year and it was straight painful, I did nothing but lie in bed at the hotel and order room service.

[Anonymous User]

3L here. v50 SA. happy to answer questions.

did regional OCI (west coast) and bid mostly NY/DC for regular OCI.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone talk about the mechanics of callbacks in other cities a little bit? For example, let's say I have two callbacks in DC on back to back days. Will they put me up in a hotel? for one day or two? For NY I assume that you can't get a hotel but they'll expense your Amtrak ticket right?

[Anonymous User]

3L here. v50 SA. happy to answer questions.

did regional OCI (west coast) and bid mostly NY/DC for regular OCI.

I've got a bunch of interviews in SF/SV regional OCI but basically no ties (international). How much did they quiz you on ties for West coast? How much of it can be overcome by ~4.0?

[Anonymous User]

Can someone talk about the mechanics of callbacks in other cities a little bit? For example, let's say I have two callbacks in DC on back to back days. Will they put me up in a hotel? for one day or two? For NY I assume that you can't get a hotel but they'll expense your Amtrak ticket right?

NY and DC will put you up in a hotel (and pay for or reimburse for business class Acela trains). DC and NY I generally got 1 night/interview, but some firms in NY prefer you come up in the morning before interviews, even if they're at 9am.

So for NY/DC, you can probably get a hotel for the night before the first interview, and the night between interviews. It's up to you to pick which firm will host your trip, and then you follow that firm's travel policies (whether they tell you to use their travel agency to book travel, or you book it yourself and submit it to them for reimbursement).

Then when you submit the NALP reimbursement forms to the firm that hosted, they'll contact all of the other firms you interviewed with on that trip to divide up the costs amongst themselves.

[Anonymous User]

3L here. v50 SA. happy to answer questions.

did regional OCI (west coast) and bid mostly NY/DC for regular OCI.

I've got a bunch of interviews in SF/SV regional OCI but basically no ties (international). How much did they quiz you on ties for West coast? How much of it can be overcome by ~4.0?

I can't speak to the 4.0 piece, but they asked me in every interview why X market. SF/SV is probably easy to sell, if you make it sound legit that you want to do startup/VC work, or whatever that specific firm is known for in that office.

FWIW, anecdotally from friends, high GPAs overcome a shit load. You've also made the commitment if youre doing regional OCI to travel to the market on your own dime, adding to your credibility.

I don't think you should be worried as long as you can interview like a normal person.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone talk about the mechanics of callbacks in other cities a little bit? For example, let's say I have two callbacks in DC on back to back days. Will they put me up in a hotel? for one day or two? For NY I assume that you can't get a hotel but they'll expense your Amtrak ticket right?

NY and DC will put you up in a hotel (and pay for or reimburse for business class Acela trains). DC and NY I generally got 1 night/interview, but some firms in NY prefer you come up in the morning before interviews, even if they're at 9am.

So for NY/DC, you can probably get a hotel for the night before the first interview, and the night between interviews. It's up to you to pick which firm will host your trip, and then you follow that firm's travel policies (whether they tell you to use their travel agency to book travel, or you book it yourself and submit it to them for reimbursement).

Then when you submit the NALP reimbursement forms to the firm that hosted, they'll contact all of the other firms you interviewed with on that trip to divide up the costs amongst themselves.

Woah NY will really put you up in a hotel? That's amazing. Could I theoretically schedule 4 or 5 callbacks on subsequent days and just live it up in NY for most of a week?

[eternalrest]

Can someone talk about the mechanics of callbacks in other cities a little bit? For example, let's say I have two callbacks in DC on back to back days. Will they put me up in a hotel? for one day or two? For NY I assume that you can't get a hotel but they'll expense your Amtrak ticket right?

NY and DC will put you up in a hotel (and pay for or reimburse for business class Acela trains). DC and NY I generally got 1 night/interview, but some firms in NY prefer you come up in the morning before interviews, even if they're at 9am.

So for NY/DC, you can probably get a hotel for the night before the first interview, and the night between interviews. It's up to you to pick which firm will host your trip, and then you follow that firm's travel policies (whether they tell you to use their travel agency to book travel, or you book it yourself and submit it to them for reimbursement).

Then when you submit the NALP reimbursement forms to the firm that hosted, they'll contact all of the other firms you interviewed with on that trip to divide up the costs amongst themselves.

Woah NY will really put you up in a hotel? That's amazing. Could I theoretically schedule 4 or 5 callbacks on subsequent days and just live it up in NY for most of a week?

Yes

[Anonymous User]

Theoretically, yes. I thought the same thing, and did the end of a week in NY (interviews Wednesday-Friday). Even doing only 1 CB a day (and I definitely would not recommend trying to do 2), the days get very long and grueling. For that reason, schedule the firms you care about more upfront in your week. They generally put you up in pretty nice hotels, so for that reason it might be worth looking into which firm you'll ask to host (the one that uses a better hotel).

You probably won't feel like you're living it up after a day of interviewing, because then you wont want to go out at night and be hungover to interview the next day. I scheduled some afternoon CB interviews for that reason, so that I could get dinner with friends 1 or 2 nights while I was there, and sleep in/interview prep the next day.

Also, I didn't submit expense reports until I got an offer, so then I didn't feel as bad about the amount I spent on some of my room service meals or dinners out. The firms will not usually give guidance on what you can spend so you're a little in the dark, but the nice thing is that they won't know what you spend until they've already made a decision about your candidacy.

[Anonymous User]

Theoretically, yes. I thought the same thing, and did the end of a week in NY (interviews Wednesday-Friday). Even doing only 1 CB a day (and I definitely would not recommend trying to do 2), the days get very long and grueling. For that reason, schedule the firms you care about more upfront in your week. They generally put you up in pretty nice hotels, so for that reason it might be worth looking into which firm you'll ask to host (the one that uses a better hotel).

You probably won't feel like you're living it up after a day of interviewing, because then you wont want to go out at night and be hungover to interview the next day. I scheduled some afternoon CB interviews for that reason, so that I could get dinner with friends 1 or 2 nights while I was there, and sleep in/interview prep the next day.

Also, I didn't submit expense reports until I got an offer, so then I didn't feel as bad about the amount I spent on some of my room service meals or dinners out. The firms will not usually give guidance on what you can spend so you're a little in the dark, but the nice thing is that they won't know what you spend until they've already made a decision about your candidacy.

This. I honestly spent pretty much all non interviewing hours in NY either in my hotel room or the hotel gym. Also felt bad about watching multiple PPV movies, but oh well.

[Clemenceau]

Is anyone considering ranking Dechert and Morgan Lewis more since they moved to 180k in Philly? Do you think they have to be ranked higher this year than last year? Philly is not my first choice of markets but a lot more tempting now at 180.

- Iustis

This thought crossed my mind too, but ultimately I still think that between them having a bunch of interview slots, and philly largely being a less desirable market, that the salary bump won't make a big difference in terms of bidding strategy.

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone considering ranking Dechert and Morgan Lewis more since they moved to 180k in Philly? Do you think they have to be ranked higher this year than last year? Philly is not my first choice of markets but a lot more tempting now at 180.

- Iustis

This thought crossed my mind too, but ultimately I still think that between them having a bunch of interview slots, and philly largely being a less desirable market, that the salary bump won't make a big difference in terms of bidding strategy.

It probably won't affect it much, but I could see the bid needing to go up one spot or two, only for the fact that: 1) it probably convinces at least 1 or 2 people to bid Philly that otherwise wouldn't come to that market; and 2) Morgan and Dechert will definitely get the highest bids from people in their grade range, now that they've separated themselves as the top tier of Philly firms

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone considering ranking Dechert and Morgan Lewis more since they moved to 180k in Philly? Do you think they have to be ranked higher this year than last year? Philly is not my first choice of markets but a lot more tempting now at 180.

- Iustis

This thought crossed my mind too, but ultimately I still think that between them having a bunch of interview slots, and philly largely being a less desirable market, that the salary bump won't make a big difference in terms of bidding strategy.

It probably won't affect it much, but I could see the bid needing to go up one spot or two, only for the fact that: 1) it probably convinces at least 1 or 2 people to bid Philly that otherwise wouldn't come to that market; and 2) Morgan and Dechert will definitely get the highest bids from people in their grade range, now that they've separated themselves as the top tier of Philly firms

I wouldn't waste a top 20 bid on either one though, especially if Philly isn't among your top choice of markets. I ranked ML and Dechert in the low twenties and got both.

[Anonymous User]

(Transfer student here) - Does Penn have a mass mailing policy, specifically w/r/t firms who will be at OCI? Either way, has anyone been mass mailing yet? Would love to hear if anyone's had mass mail success in Philly or NYC thus far.

--theory

[Anonymous User]

(Transfer student here) - Does Penn have a mass mailing policy, specifically w/r/t firms who will be at OCI? Either way, has anyone been mass mailing yet? Would love to hear if anyone's had mass mail success in Philly or NYC thus far.

--theory

I have been mass mailing and am not aware of a policy for us. However, most of the firms that come to OCI haven't responded back to mailings and the 2 that did said to wait until OCI list is published.

[Anonymous User]

(Transfer student here) - Does Penn have a mass mailing policy, specifically w/r/t firms who will be at OCI? Either way, has anyone been mass mailing yet? Would love to hear if anyone's had mass mail success in Philly or NYC thus far.

--theory

I have been mass mailing and am not aware of a policy for us. However, most of the firms that come to OCI haven't responded back to mailings and the 2 that did said to wait until OCI list is published.

Thanks! Makes sense about waiting until list is published. Though I imagine it can't hurt to show firms in advance that you are interested.

--theory

[Anonymous User]

When are your preliminary OCI lists released?

[Auxilio]

When are your preliminary OCI lists released?

The 12th I think. It's labelled as waitlist review on symplicity.