AMA: I'm a junior level in house counsel Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am a junior level in house counsel for a subsidiary of a large global company. My company is headquartered in the Midwestern United States.
I have 3 years of experience in this job. I did not lateral, this was my first job out of law school. Great company to work for, great hours, good pay and benefits, I also have a of lot control and decision making over my own work and projects. I will try and remain somewhat anonymous on my answers but would love to answer anything you would like to know or ask.
I am not personally involved with day to day corporate law matters, our General Counsel handles typically all of that stuff. I work in litigation/arbitration, compliance, any other form of dispute, training, and a general research monkey.
Ask me anything.

[TTTooKewl]

How did you land a legal in house gig straight out of high school?

[Anonymous User]

How did you land a legal in house gig straight out of high school?

Thanks for pointing out the typo. It has been corrected. I meant "law school" not "high school" so I can will answer your question as if it originally said "law school"


Good question. I get that question a lot. I did not take the typical route. I didn't go to a top school, didn't graduate with honors and then work in big law. Me getting the gig was mostly luck mixed in with a couple of other factors.
I work in a pretty specialized industry/area. I had some previous background and knowledge in the area before law school and was able to solidify that through an internship I did with the government my 2L year. During that internship, I made several great networking connections who did a lot to help me get a job, i.e., got me in person meetings with the right people to discuss job opportunities.
At the time, my company's legal department consisted of two attorneys and they were tired of being swapped and needed help. The timing was almost perfect when they opened the job position. I was encouraged to apply so I did and the rest is history.
After I accepted the position I asked my boss about the hiring process and why I was selected. He said it was based on reccomendations from the people I knew, prior work product, and knowledge of the specialized industry. Plus, he said it is a lot less expensive to hire a newer attorney than one with many years of experience and you have the ability to mold and teach a new attorney as opposed to a more experienced one. Both attorneys felt strongly about having the opportunity and ability to mold and teach for the position. They did say many people applied for the job with many varying years of experience.
So basically, a lot of luck as involved there. Plus my willingness to relocate to a place I had never visited before the interview and had no ties to. But can't complain, it is a great place!

Thanks for the question, I'm bored today and hoping to answer some more.

[Anonymous User]

About how much do you make (if you don't mind giving a ball-park)?

[Anonymous User]

About how much do you make (if you don't mind giving a ball-park)?

Base salary $100k
Cash bonus: Varies each year on profitability. Last year was $10k.
Stock options/awards: Hard to put a value on stock options at this time, hopefully they gain more value in the future. But restricted stock awards come in at about $20k.

[Abbie Doobie]

do you have a feel for what your income growth will be there?

how do you like it compared the gov gig (at least based on what you experienced during 2L summer)?

what would you recommend to someone who is looking to take a similar career path to improve their chances?

[Anonymous User]

do you have a feel for what your income growth will be there?

how do you like it compared the gov gig (at least based on what you experienced during 2L summer)?

what would you recommend to someone who is looking to take a similar career path to improve their chances?

Income growth should be pretty good and steady. You bonus amount and stock awards are based upon your salary grade. I have not reached the title or salary grade level or an Assistant Vice President, Vice President, or Senior Vice President. I would like to hit AVP sometime soon. I don't see the legal department in this company growing significantly or hiring many more people in the next while. Our General Counsel is nearing retirement age. The attorney below him is in his 40s and then there is me. I think growth should be steady. Which I should also mention another comment about growth that interests me, I am not confined to just the legal department or growth within that department. I am also interested in the operations side of the business and have done some work with the operations team. I would be interested in one day having a dual role of counsel and a business type, VP Operations, COO, something like that, but that is a ways down the road. The company has been very open for me taking those opportunities and exploring them.

I much prefer working for the company than I did working for the government. Better culture, more opportunity, it is just a better feel. I can't really describe it, but if you have ever worked in a government agency office or something similar you might be able to understand. The opportunity for growth and better income is a lot more likely at the private company level.

As far as reccomendations, I am a firm believer in meeting people and making connections. It has helped me. To that end, you shouldn't just add people on LinkedIn and email them, but actually get to know them. For example, many state bar associations have section groups for members of the bar who work in the same area, such as the corporate counsel section. Join the group even if you don't work in house or are a law student. You will never get to meet so many in house attorneys so easily and in one setting. They will be interested in talking to you and helping you. I went to a corporate counsel luncheon that was sponsored by our bar association the other day, there were probably 20-25 attorneys there, even people from companies that I didn't know had a presence in the area.
Also, you should genuinely be interested in the business of the company you want to work for. A lot of people want to work in house because of the hours, but you need to separate yourself from the rest and be able to say "I want to work for company X for this reason and be able to talk about company X." People at the hiring levels and the executive levels of businesses, where many strive to be, care about the company making money, and more importantly the company making more money. Learn how the business makes money! How do they make money over their competition. I think to be successful in house you need to know, understand, and like your business. Even though you are a lawyer, your only client is the business and you need to know as much about the business as you can. It will help you in your job and help you in interviews and networking

Hope that was helpful.

[pancakes3]

Exit options?

[Anonymous User]

Exit options?

I wouldn't say there are a lot of exit options out of this job. I have no plans on looking at any in the near future.

But here are some possible exit options:
Work for federal government in related industry; work for the law firms we hire has local counsel; go work at some firm or government doing whatever work you can find a job doing.

[pancakes3]

Exit options?

I wouldn't say there are a lot of exit options out of this job. I have no plans on looking at any in the near future.

But here are some possible exit options:
Work for federal government in related industry; work for the law firms we hire has local counsel; go work at some firm or government doing whatever work you can find a job doing.

I suppose the potential to exit is always there but it sounds like it's not really there. I suppose there isn't a lot of geographic flexibility since the legal dept. is probably in one location, or other GC work for a different (bigger, higher paying) company, etc.?

[Anonymous User]

Exit options?

I wouldn't say there are a lot of exit options out of this job. I have no plans on looking at any in the near future.

But here are some possible exit options:
Work for federal government in related industry; work for the law firms we hire has local counsel; go work at some firm or government doing whatever work you can find a job doing.

I suppose the potential to exit is always there but it sounds like it's not really there. I suppose there isn't a lot of geographic flexibility since the legal dept. is probably in one location, or other GC work for a different (bigger, higher paying) company, etc.?

I guess one could always leave if they so chose. There hasn't been an attorney leave the legal department other than for retirement in 20+ years.

It would be hard to beat the hours, pay, and opportunity for career growth elsewhere. Once you hit the AVP grade and bonus level it's smooth sailing from there. If someone really wanted to live in a large city, work for a certain type of company, work a bunch of hours, and maybe make more money then you certainly could.

[pancakes3]

Exit options?

I wouldn't say there are a lot of exit options out of this job. I have no plans on looking at any in the near future.

But here are some possible exit options:
Work for federal government in related industry; work for the law firms we hire has local counsel; go work at some firm or government doing whatever work you can find a job doing.

I suppose the potential to exit is always there but it sounds like it's not really there. I suppose there isn't a lot of geographic flexibility since the legal dept. is probably in one location, or other GC work for a different (bigger, higher paying) company, etc.?

I guess one could always leave if they so chose. There hasn't been an attorney leave the legal department other than for retirement in 20+ years.

It would be hard to beat the hours, pay, and opportunity for career growth elsewhere. Once you hit the AVP grade and bonus level it's smooth sailing from there. If someone really wanted to live in a large city, work for a certain type of company, work a bunch of hours, and maybe make more money then you certainly could.

So moving up to AVP/VP/SVP is largely (entirely) internal? And not just internal but likely? I'm sure it's better odds than making partner but it's not a foregone conclusion that once you put in x-years, you're getting promoted? And if nobody's left in like 20 years, how does the vertical ascent work?

[Anonymous User]

Exit options?

I wouldn't say there are a lot of exit options out of this job. I have no plans on looking at any in the near future.

But here are some possible exit options:
Work for federal government in related industry; work for the law firms we hire has local counsel; go work at some firm or government doing whatever work you can find a job doing.

I suppose the potential to exit is always there but it sounds like it's not really there. I suppose there isn't a lot of geographic flexibility since the legal dept. is probably in one location, or other GC work for a different (bigger, higher paying) company, etc.?

I guess one could always leave if they so chose. There hasn't been an attorney leave the legal department other than for retirement in 20+ years.

It would be hard to beat the hours, pay, and opportunity for career growth elsewhere. Once you hit the AVP grade and bonus level it's smooth sailing from there. If someone really wanted to live in a large city, work for a certain type of company, work a bunch of hours, and maybe make more money then you certainly could.

So moving up to AVP/VP/SVP is largely (entirely) internal? And not just internal but likely? I'm sure it's better odds than making partner but it's not a foregone conclusion that once you put in x-years, you're getting promoted? And if nobody's left in like 20 years, how does the vertical ascent work?

Typically all advancement after hiring, even outside of the legal department is internal. It is not a forgone conclusion that you will be moved up, but that should be your goal regardless who you work for.

The legal department is pretty small, so her is how the vertical assent works.
GC= SVP
Assistant GC = VP
Associate GC = AVP
Junior level counsel = me