Weil vs. S&C Forum

[Anonymous User]

Basically, the Q is how much does a difference in prestige matter, since I tend to like the ppl at Weil a lot more and think I would fit in much better. Undecided PA, but leaning corp/M&A/PE. Goals = (1) leave NYC to Chi w/i 3 yrs (2) clerk (3) in-house/bus side.

Thoughts discuss.

[Anonymous User]

1. Why are you trying to clerk if you're going into corporate and want to move in-house?

2. I'd probably pick S&C. Personally, it's the last firm I'd pick between CSM/S&C/DPW/STB, but I think all of those firms are significantly stronger than Weil. Vault rankings aren't really that important, but for whatever reason, Weil is perennially overrated, and I think that affects law students' perceptions of the firm. I can't speak for others, but I do not view Weil as a top-ten firm in New York.

[Anonymous User]

Obviously, you can clerk if you really want to, but hopefully you recognize the strangeness of wanting to practice corporate --> clerk --> in-house. Also, not sure if judges will want someone who practice corporate for a couple years? Only speculating with that one, no basis there, but the skills are just radically different.

[Anonymous User]

1. Why are you trying to clerk if you're going into corporate and want to move in-house?

2. I'd probably pick S&C. Personally, it's the last firm I'd pick between CSM/S&C/DPW/STB, but I think all of those firms are significantly stronger than Weil. Vault rankings aren't really that important, but for whatever reason, Weil is perennially overrated, and I think that affects law students' perceptions of the firm. I can't speak for others, but I do not view Weil as a top-ten firm in New York.

I'd actually Weil as a top ten firm in NY for corporate, or pretty damn close to it. Generally speaking, it's not quite at the level of wachtell, cravath, skadden, sullcrom, davis or simpson, but it's in the tier right below along with cleary, deb and etc. It's obviously very good at things like bankruptcy but it doesn't like you're much interested. Point being that while most would say sullcrom is regarded as overall stronger for general corp, the gap isn't so big and you should go to Weil if u liked them more. For relocating to Chicago, it should be a wash between the two.

[Anonymous User]

2. I'd probably pick S&C. Personally, it's the last firm I'd pick between CSM/S&C/DPW/STB, but I think all of those firms are significantly stronger than Weil. Vault rankings aren't really that important, but for whatever reason, Weil is perennially overrated, and I think that affects law students' perceptions of the firm. I can't speak for others, but I do not view Weil as a top-ten firm in New York.

Why is it the last you'd pick?

[Anonymous User]

2. I'd probably pick S&C. Personally, it's the last firm I'd pick between CSM/S&C/DPW/STB, but I think all of those firms are significantly stronger than Weil. Vault rankings aren't really that important, but for whatever reason, Weil is perennially overrated, and I think that affects law students' perceptions of the firm. I can't speak for others, but I do not view Weil as a top-ten firm in New York.

Why is it the last you'd pick?

This isn't exactly an uncommon opinion. Personality and fit wise, it's very often the less picked firm head to head with all the firms in its peer group (the four listed there), but I agree with the logic in the post that S&C's corporate practice has a broad enough strength advantage over somewhere like Weil that it's not a purely fit decision and there are more objective reasons to pick Sullivan. For my part, I'd definitely go S&C here, even though I turned them down for one of those four peers back when I was choosing firms in a previous year.

[Anonymous User]

There is some terrible advice in this thread!

- S&C is vastly superior to Weil in every transactional practice except restructuring, and even in restructuring, Weil's restructuring group post-Harvey would be a very uncertain place to work.

- Yes, it is vastly easier to lateral to a new location from S&C (or its peer firms) than from Weil.

- There is pretty much no set of "fit" facts that could justify picking Weil over S&C. Even if you set aside the superior opportunities for a second job, much better job security if the market turns, the firms are culturally not dissimilar. There's no meaningful reason to pick one firm over the other for culture.

This is not an S&C-specific answer, FWIW. If you know you want to go transactional, picking Weil over any of the super-elite firms is not rational. There's a big gap between the top and the second tier in transactional work, largely driven by public-company M&A, which is by far the most profitable transactional work and is concentrated at a small number of firms.

[Anonymous User]

Go with where you liked the best. People that make distinctions between V10 firms like the above are freaking nuts. No one is going to care (in-house or otherwise) that you worked at Weil instead of S&C, or vice versa. Both are considered two of the best firms in NYC and the training you get at either place is going to be similar. When it comes to transactional work, Weil might be a "step down" (i.e. they don't have Rodgin Cohen), but they get huge public M&A deals and have a large and growing portfolio of PE clients (middle market and top of market).

Honestly, as someone who has been in NYC biglaw for a little while now, these differences are such bullshit, that I would honestly argue that fit is by far the most important no matter what firms you are looking at. Both are considered firms at the top of the profession for transactional work and you will hate your life equally at both, so might as well choose where the people seem better.

EDIT: Saw the poster above talking about job security and better options for second job .... this is the kind of shit that keeps people going in this profession, ignore it, people taking subtle differences and personal stories to make it seem like their decision to do X is justified. These firms will have extremely similar exit-options, with S&C maybe having more "brand name" options at the end of the day (yayyyyy you work at Goldman in legal and compliance!!! You are so much better than someone working at Citi!!!) and job security at Weil is at an all time high after the layoffs (trust me, i'm a shitty associate, and the chance of me getting canned is 0%)

[Anonymous User]

Go Weil--the differences above are pretty ridiculous IMO, the Weil attorneys im aware of in Corp went over to Goldman, another bulge bracket bank I forget (citi/credit suisse), and two fortune 100 companies. Theyre top 3 in deal flow for the last two years in M&A and PE, and the BS about uncertainty in their restructuring practice is assuredly coming from someone who is very unfamiliar with restructuring practices and competition within.

I'm aware of two people who chose Weil over SC for the same reasons, and they're pretty reasonable. TBH, I sat at a dinner table with SC associates a few months ago and it was so. incredibly. awk. Could be the sample size, but seriously...

[Anonymous User]

I'm one of the Anon above. This is more amusing than anything (I don't work at S&C), but here you go.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5#p5943783

[Anonymous User]

There is some terrible advice in this thread!

- S&C is vastly superior to Weil in every transactional practice except restructuring, and even in restructuring, Weil's restructuring group post-Harvey would be a very uncertain place to work.

- Yes, it is vastly easier to lateral to a new location from S&C (or its peer firms) than from Weil.

- There is pretty much no set of "fit" facts that could justify picking Weil over S&C. Even if you set aside the superior opportunities for a second job, much better job security if the market turns, the firms are culturally not dissimilar. There's no meaningful reason to pick one firm over the other for culture.

This is not an S&C-specific answer, FWIW. If you know you want to go transactional, picking Weil over any of the super-elite firms is not rational. There's a big gap between the top and the second tier in transactional work, largely driven by public-company M&A, which is by far the most profitable transactional work and is concentrated at a small number of firms.

Not OP but why is it easier to lateral to a new city from a place like S&C than Weil? Brand name? Also, I thought Weil does a plenty of public M&A - not sure why it would lag so much behind the "top tier."

[Anonymous User]

Weil associates pull. Nuff said.